Elon Musk Claims Apple Has 'Mostly Stopped' Offering Ads on Twitter and Is Making Moderation Demands

[hans1972]

What are you saying Elon is gonna allow CP on Twitter? C'mon when he says free speech he means one political side is not going to dominate the platform. It doesn't mean he is going to allow violence or anything unlawful. People are taking him too literally when he refers to free speech.

You brought up the child pornography.
vikingjunior said:
Did you not see all the kiddie porn that had to be removed from Twitter? Apple never said a word until Elon bought it. Totally fake outrage from Apple.

And I responded with:
That's what Apple require of social media apps: An effective moderation team and functionality.


So to iterate, if there were a lot of child pornography on Twitter as you wrote, Apple would require moderation from Twitter and quick removal. And it seems Twitter has that and so isn't violating Apple's guidelines for the App Store.

 

[hans1972]

Yes we all know they can ban any app they want. No one said they couldn’t. I said in my opinion it would be a mistake and set a dangerous precedent.

It would not set a precedent since Apple has already done something similar.

 

[teh_hunterer]

If it breaks their TOS they can defend it in every way, if Elon's platform is going to allow for vile hate speech, then I would argue removing them is actually the most moral decision they can make.

No, if it breaks their TOS they can defend it legally.

As for hate speech, that's just your political opinion. My political opinion is that hate speech sucks, but trying to censor or ban offensive/hateful speech is completely antithetical to the kind of society we live in, and not really possible to do on a technical level that won't slide us towards tyranny.

Cracking down on free expression and sliding us towards tyranny is morally wrong, regardless of what's in the TOS.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I have no opinion on the bakery thing. I'm not American, nor am I conservative. But it would be wrong for Apple to censor millions of people by removing Twitter.

Two completely different cases.
In one case it’s two private entities arguing about a platform in a store. In the other case it’s about the government (State of Colorado) compelling a private entity to perform a creative act.

 

[teh_hunterer]

They are very very quick to make assumptions. Again if you differ on one opinion with them, they assume you differ on all.

The assumption game is real. Never mind that I've voted left my whole life, for a government that is actually further to the left than the US Democrats in many ways, but apparently I'm a right wing conservative in a country I've never even been to, just because I defend free speech.

Edit: That being said, I will go to America when I can. Always wanted to.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

It would not set a precedent since Apple has already done something similar.

When did they ban an app from the App Store the size of twitter with no violation of policies?

 

[ProfessionalFan]

The assumption game is real. Never mind that I've voted left my whole life, for a government that is actually further to the left than the US Democrats in many ways, but apparently I'm a right wing conservative in a country I've never even been to, just because I defend free speech.

Same here. I'm a registered democrat who voted Dem most of my life and I'm pretty sure they think I'm far right.

 

[hans1972]

3. He closed loopholes- which allowed apple to bring back cash reserves to US.

And Apple and other companies saved billions of dollars in US taxes.

The reason why Apple and other American companies had the money outside the US accounting-wise was to delay paying taxes to the US. This allowed them to bring back the money and very reduced tax rates.

Also, the money didn't necessarily stay outside the US. Let's say Apple International had billions of dollars. They could still be in a US bank account and thus be used in the US.

 

[Handsome Bacon]

This week is going to be interesting.

Same here. I'm a registered democrat who voted Dem most of my life and I'm pretty sure they think I'm far right.

The Overton window is now so far left, if you're actual trad-left, then you're right wing now.

 

[nikhsub1]

I have no opinion on the bakery thing. I'm not American, nor am I conservative. But it would be wrong for Apple to censor millions of people by removing Twitter.

You do understand that if apple were to remove the twitter app, twitter is still accessible right?

 

[Handsome Bacon]

And Apple and other companies saved billions of dollars in US taxes.

The reason why Apple and other American companies had the money outside the US accounting-wise was to delay paying taxes to the US. This allowed them to bring back the money and very reduced tax rates.

Also, the money didn't necessarily stay outside the US. Let's say Apple International had billions of dollars. They could still be in a US bank account and thus be used in the US.

I think this strategy is called "The Green Jersey" now. Used to be called the "Double Irish/Dutch Sandwich" and, later, Apple's "Leprechaun Economics". Maybe someone more current on this can elaborate.

 

[teh_hunterer]

You do understand that if apple were to remove the twitter app, twitter is still accessible right?

Are we really going to play this game? Being pulled from the iPhone/iPad app store is a huge deal. Companies wouldn't tolerate the 30% cut Apple takes if it wasn't.

But yes, it wouldn't singehandedly kill Twitter, but it is censorship, and it's anti free speech and free expression, and a purely political move from a company that isn't in any position of moral virtue to make those kinds of sweeping political moves.

And it should be mentioned, they haven't actually done it to Twitter so far.

 

[hans1972]

And if Apple does remove Twitter from the App Store without a real reason other than “space man bad”, they are going to run into lawsuits and anti trust talk again.

Apple removes apps for violating the App Store guidelines in which Twitter agreed to. It's basically contract law which allows Apple to remove any app. This has already been tested in court where Apple was allowed to terminate the contract with Epic.

The App Store guidelines has some requirements for social networks and content moderation.

 

[ProfessionalFan]

Apple removes apps for violating the App Store guidelines in which Twitter agreed to. It's basically contract law which allows Apple to remove any app. This has already been tested in court where Apple was allowed to terminate the contract with Epic.

The App Store guidelines has some requirements for social networks and content moderation.

So the answer to my question was none.

Epic clearly and admittedly violated the guidelines, Twitter has not and no other app the size of Twitter has ever been removed from the App Store without a clear violation of the guidelines.

 

[hans1972]

Worth noting that if Apple were to ban Twitter from the App Store, it would 100% need to ban Reddit also. Both of them have “questionable” content.

AFAIK the iOS Reddit app has censored content by default. The App Store guidelines has a section on how you can have a lot of content Apple doesn't like but still be in the App Store.

 

[steve09090]

if it involves custom made cakes, yes.
If it involves previously prepared cakes, no.
The creative act - as simple as it is - makes the whole difference.

Wow. If a baker puts a previously baked cake in a box in a creative way, then that’s free speech and homophobia is allowed? And that’s pretty much the point. People can find any argument and skew it in favour of their own view… when it suits them.

The above example is one that shows that hate speech can be okay depending on where your moral compass sits. And that could be based on your religion, your political view or maybe your experiences.

Nobody can win this argument because we are all have different views.

Huh? Whatever your point was here, it went over my head.

Yup. I think that was their point.

They are very very quick to make assumptions. Again if you differ on one opinion with them, they assume you differ on all.

That’s a pretty quick and wrong assumption.

 

[nikhsub1]

Are we really going to play this game? Being pulled from the iPhone/iPad app store is a huge deal. Companies wouldn't tolerate the 30% cut Apple takes if it wasn't.

But yes, it wouldn't singehandedly kill Twitter, but it is censorship, and it's anti free speech and free expression, and a purely political move from a company that isn't in any position of moral virtue to make those kinds of sweeping political moves.

And it should be mentioned, they haven't actually done it to Twitter so far.

You see it as censorship, others see it as apple exercising its free speech.

 

[gugy]

The ACLU Skokie case you cite involves the government, which is why it is (correctly) protected by free speech.

But that has NOTHING to do with what we're talking about here, because FREE SPEECH DOES NOT APPLY TO PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Just like MacRumors can block me or throw me out from here if I do something they don't approve of, so you can throw me out of your home if I say something insulting.

Free speech laws do not apply to individuals or businesses, they only apply to government censorship.

The broader point should apply to corporations, especially because social media is so important to our society. Corporations like Apple/Google/Twitter/Meta, etc. must follow the ACLU example because they are the tools to influence public discourse.
This is my point. Free speech should be allowed at all costs. My only restriction is if incites violence.

 

[Ankaa]

But it would be wrong for Apple to censor millions of people by removing Twitter.

For the love of everything, can you all just stop with the buzzwords, especially if used absolutely and completely incorrectly? Just because they keep being used in a certain way and repeated over and over doesn't automatically, suddenly make it correct.

 

[topdrawer]

For the love of everything, can you all just stop with the buzzwords, especially if used absolutely and completely incorrectly? Just because they keep being used in a certain way and repeated over and over doesn't automatically, suddenly make it correct.

apple literally gagging and putting duct tape over people's mouth. don't you see it! lol

 

[hans1972]

I wondered who else has Apple censored? Do they hate free speech in America?

Apple has curated, moderated, censored hundreds of thousands (maybe even a million) of app developers since 2008. You haven't been following Apple if you don't know how they operate their App Store.

It's essential to Apple and what many of its customers value.

it's a reason why it's called a walled garden.

 

[steve09090]

Are we really going to play this game? Being pulled from the iPhone/iPad app store is a huge deal. Companies wouldn't tolerate the 30% cut Apple takes if it wasn't.

But yes, it wouldn't singehandedly kill Twitter, but it is censorship, and it's anti free speech and free expression, and a purely political move from a company that isn't in any position of moral virtue to make those kinds of sweeping political moves.

And it should be mentioned, they haven't actually done it to Twitter so far.

Who said Apple are even considering this? Why are you so angry about something that isn't even a "thing"?

 

[liberte1776]

Apple should be doing what Musk is doing, championing free speech & civil debates, clearly, Apple has a different agenda for us and it’s not Freedom. Time for a new CEO.

 

[hans1972]

1. Elon is commenting that Apple is not paying for advertising on Twitter - this is not the same thing as Apple having a free account that they routinely advertised on in the past.

So Musk is saying that Apple is advertising on Twitter but not paying the invoice?

If that's true, Twitter only has to go through the legal procedure to collect the money through the legal system.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Who said Apple are even considering this? Why are you so angry about something that isn't even a "thing"?

What kind of standard is this? Others are allowed to argue for it, but if I argue against it I'm "so angry"?

When have I claimed Apple has actually done or is about to do it? I like Apple.