So disrespectful to Tim Cook 😡 which has made me very angry.
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Elon Musk Claims He Once Reached Out to Tim Cook About Tesla Purchase But Was Refused Meeting
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Making a guess is, in fact, literally making a statement. 🤣
So let me get this straight
- You don't want to see more data
- You don't own a car
- You "don't give a ****"
Yet you commented about...8 times in this thread? I get the sense you contradicted yourself.
I'm going to end this argument here. Have a good one.
Your statements were in response to a post about Apple screwing up cars and Tesla being an innovative company.
Seeing as how your statements don't jive with what Lerxt said, one can reasonably assume that they're to be taken as as counter-arguments.
Tesla offers a $35k order over the phone for the Model 3. So your experience of buying a $130k car isn't really a counter-argument to Apple making "too expensive" cars.
Lerxt said Apple will "require" a subcription while Tesla so far offers "optional" subscriptions as well as the upcoming FSD subscription. Not a requirement.
Lerxt said Apple will have poor range. Your experience with range is subjective as well as Lerxt's assertion. Any car performs differently depending on your right foot.
Uh. No. A guess isn’t a declaration, nor an affirmation, nor a definite explanation, nor… y’know. A statement.
Nah. I find Apple’s car stuff mildly interesting. I find Tesla mildly interesting. Especially in the early days of the original Roadster. Less so in the latter days of a CEO who downplays a pandemic so his workers feel compelled to make more cars. But still a little.
A car model that largely lacks tactile controls is also interesting for an Apple cusuomer; it’s a rather Jony Ive-like misguidedness about design.
So that’s all interesting. Your long-winded, defensive arguments that don’t seem particularly related to Elon supposedly calling Tim? Not that interesting, TBH.
ok cool
I understand the reason myself, I own some shares in each. If Tesla is not "just a car" company like everyone says they're not, stock price shouldn't crash.
I think where the issue is, is that I was not making a counter argument.
I said, Tesla is expensive.
With my experience. It is expensive. I wanted Ludicrous+ too badly! Acceleration is an addiction. Help.
I can't speak to buying a $35,000 car over the phone because I've never done that. I don't try to imagine things I haven't done too often. I can speak to buying a $500 car out of a cow pasture. A $5,000 car from a janky dealership in Mississippi and some others but the only car from Tesla I've ever touched is the one I have.
Similar to how I can't speculate on the level of pressure a CEO like Tim Cook has on his shoulders 24/7.
I can speak to the pressures of running my own businesses but I am far from a multi-trillion dollar or billion dollar company. I only have 35 employees and their families to think about, I don't know how I'd sleep having to worry about the number of people that work for Apple or Tesla.
I'm not even sure who Lerxt is so I apologize to them for not remembering the name and will have to look back to find out. This topic is going WAY deeper than I could have ever imagined.
I completely agree that any vehicle range is depending on how you drive but some people do not 'actually' understand that. I still know many, many people that if they speak of miles per gallon, they will quote what their sticker said or embelish and add 2-3 more mpg.
And with having this car, I have a very high percentage of folks that ask questions. The very number one question is about range. Which again is a number most people B.S. about. I also know with freezing temps coming, my range is going to plummet regardless of how I drive
I try to be as truthful as possible about it. I say well the car says 300 miles at 100% but I'll never get 300 miles and I never have. I can't speak to anything outside of my own day to day experience.
I do know it is shaped like a big jelly bean, it's stupid fast and I like it.
This whole controlled leak of Apple’s refocus on what was once ‘Project Titan’ is nothing short of genius.
This is how Apple plants the deeply needed seeds into the root of this industry. Why you ask? To cleverly poach Tesla talent (which started in 2018 with the re-hiring of Doug Field, a former Apple VP of Mac Engineering who bounced to Tesla back in 2013) by showing that they’re committing to the vision and need the right players around (I.E. The notoriously undermined and unappreciated Tesla minds).
It’s a necessary move to reposition themselves as serious contenders in the future vision of electronic automotive product.
Think about it for a moment:- Since 2018, their revitalized efforts are led by Tesla’s Doug Field, who notoriously axed 200 of his team members he inherited at Apple.
- Doug believes that he can get the right people from Tesla if they were sold on the long game.
- Apple has been sued by Tesla for poaching their creme-de-la-crepe many times before. Clearly they’re acting more ‘cautiously’ now.
- This whole media blitz over Apple Car is nothing short of a meticulously engineered plan to prospect for gold nuggets of talent in a young but absolutely necessary space.
- Tim Cook has no interest in Elon Musk’s baggage or off-the-wall antics (nor should he be).
- Tim Cook brilliantly let Doug run this long-game so that Elon Musk is the one losing sleep and paying the salaries of the minds of our best and brightest so that once they are actually innovative, they’ll be more than interested in a recruiter’s pitch at Apple.
There must be a few sharp tools in this shed of a forum. I can’t be the only one, right?
And if this doesn’t convince you, I happen to know the guy who sourced that story to Businesses Insider, a move he made after clearing it with Apple Security as it was part of a larger game afoot to lead us to this point in their poach fest. He told me personally that the term quoted “to give them a run for their money” was not only scripted by strategic consultants hired by Apple, it was even workshopped by marketing controlled surveys.
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Yes. I am dismissing a sub 25k Tesla because in all honesty the brand is not strong enough to make people on a budget go Tesla when plenty of sub 25K cars are readily available (not planned - those cars are ITW here). Opel/Vauxhall Corsa e, VW eUP, Skoda e-Citigo, Seat eMii, Fiat 500e, Smart electric are on the market now. I don’t see any space for Tesla in that segment especially given the sub-par craftsmanship.
And I am really sorry...I just couldn’t stop laughing reading your rambles about dealership making 2-3% of the sticker price. Did you ever read about the margins Tesla is using in comparison to other car manufacturers?!? So to put your point into perspective you don‘t want 2-3% of the sticker price go to the dealer, yet you have no problem whatsoever with up to 30% of the sticker price going into shareholders pockets while the common figure in the car industry is below 10%.
(Translation: A 50K Tesla roughly equals a 40K VW in material cost)
Time to close
First the Apple fanboys stampeded through this thread, then the Tesla fanboys, now here come the grammar dweebs!
Just a refresher, you quote-replied to Lerxt https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...but-was-refused-meeting.2276876/post-29428265
From the looks of it, you were contrasting what Lerxt said, but if you meant to just speak details of Tesla and didn't mean to make it a response to Lerxt then this discussion isn't all that necessary.
Disagreed. If a $25k Tesla can have the range, have self driving capability, and have minimal maintenance, those that are in need of a budget car will go for a Tesla. Those cars on the market don't have these benefits.
A customer "in that segment" isn't looking for great craftsmanship. You are. A customer is looking for a functional car with high value at $25k. Sorry, but there's some strong bias coming from you...
That's non-sensical. How is 30% going back into shareholder's pocket when:
1) Tesla so far hasn't bought back any shares
2) Tesla issued $5 billion in new shares a couple of weeks ago which diluted shareholder value (literally doing the opposite of what you're accusing Tesla is doing)
3) Tesla is still on a spending spree with more factories under way, new cars coming, more supercharger expansion, etc...means more capex.
And by the way, Tesla is literally adding more value to the car. When I got my car, I didn't have 4 camera surround dashcam that records everything as I drive. I didn't have surround camera sentry mode that records automatically when someone breaks in the car. I didn't have Netflix and Youtube which can stream full movies over LTE. Tesla added all of this and much more over free software updates. And there's more coming.
So even assuming you're correct in that Tesla is putting that 30% into shareholder's pockets (for the record, that's NOT correct), the value of a Tesla still far outweighs the competitors.
A legacy car maker would save these features for a next year model. And that's on top of the 2%-3% of the dealership fee PLUS the high margin parts that a legacy car maker sells (which is a major revenue stream). And on TOP OF THAT, dealerships make most of their profits from their own parts and services department.
What's laughable is that you still think the dealership model is "a major advantage" when all signs are pointing to the dealership model going away over the next 10-20 years. Nobody enjoys going to dealerships. They simply have to.
I thought this was going to be a proper, objective conversation, but it sounds like you're simply ignoring these facts (perhaps you own a dealership yourself? i hope not). I don't see the point in continuing this conversation with you, so have a good one.
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1/10? LMAO! Elon doesn't know how Apple works...they want all of it, plus Apple wants full control something Elon would off said no...dumb on Elon, if Apple would of taken over Tesla, the vehicles wouldn't have a poor QC. I can see a lighting port charging a TESLA!
To be fair, there was a lot of noise and risk in the field. There's been about a half dozen or more companies attempting to win the self driving cars race for example, taking different approaches and some are just planning to license the tech. Back when Elon was trying to sell it was still just about the battery.
Did you actually research the cars I mentioned? I guess not. And touting a feature that is optional in a Tesla for 6K in a budget car really doesn’t make sense.
What? 1/10 the valuation. not 1/10 of the company. Tesla was around $60 (post split) back in 2017. Now it's $600.
You probably want to re-evaluate that "dumb" accusation lol
Tesla has a 30% margin on every car sold. Meaning all cost (including parts and R&D) for a 60K Tesla are 42K.
18K have to go somewhere...and given all costs are included in this number they go to the company.
While you still refuse the simple math that a car sold with 30% margin for 60K is factually the same worth as a car sold for 50K with a 16% margin - or a 45K car with 6% margin (*cough* ID.4 *cough*) we really don’t need to talk anymore.
Just for you I found this amazing video of the cars hitting the road next year. The Tesla hunt is on!
Shape/design, the back seat I can understand. But the model 3 still provides more storage volume. There’s no fronk on the ID.3 right? But I think style wise, that’s a personal preference.
Efficiency: top gear tested the ID.3, Leaf and model 3. M3 got 2.8 miles per kWh vs 4.3 for the ID.3
And regarding the 130kmh... I had to look up the exact conversion. The road trip I just made tonight has that exact speed limit of. 80mph/130kmh. So with 20°F or below 0°C at 85 mph, I appreciate the added range and efficiency on the model 3.
Combine efficiency with faster charging and the model 3 is a significantly faster vehicle that’s more manageable for road trips. Maybe Europe chargers are better, but the electrify America where the ID.3 will rely heavily on isn’t up to par with super chargers. For a lot of people that’s a deal breaker. I wouldn’t have bought an EV if I knew I couldn’t use it as a road trip vehicle. I don’t do a lot of road trips, but the difference between adding 2 hours at a charging stop and 30 minutes is a big deal on a long trip. If Europe is consistently at 100kw, that’s more manageable.
And autopilot, it’s a game changer on long trips. I go once or twice a month on a longer trip and with my model 3 AWD I can just make the trip without stopping to charge. Autopilot has completely changed the trip as I use to do it without the Tesla. The autonomous driving in town I think isn’t worth it. But the reliability of just autopilot on the highways is really nice
while the ID.3 is a promising vehicle, outside of the shape of the vehicle and build quality which in some ways is a personal preference, it seems like everything else is subpar to Tesla.
Not to mind your business, but IMHO unlike Apple, Tesla lacks the portfolio to make the claim. Though they’re the trailblazer in EV, this is getting over as others are catching up, specially due the constant delays in the production which as been “eating up” a major stake of the lead. But to me more importantly, the general consumer adoption of EV will take in consideration and value the availability of physical tech support assistance, where conventional auto makers have a lead.
On Apple’s side, the new ARM Macs due to their unmatched performance and interaction with the ecosystem mobile devices will make Apple stock rise, as there will be no competitors in the short term, and I suspect it will take a long time to Intel or AMD to be able to provide an equivalent alternative due to the interdependence of the ARM SoC unified architecture and built in OS for which, unlike Apple, they both rely on a 3rd party (Microsoft).
I would dump Tesla after the roadster starts rolling in (I believe will have a brand value boost effect), and definitely start pilling Apple stock...
Competition has been coming since 2013 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303653004579210053345661982
I think most car companies will finally beat the Model S of 2012 in a few years. Then they'll need to catchup somehow with today's Tesla offerings.
As I said they were Trailblazers, but IMHO you’re missing some insight.
In Europe (not familiar with US policies) in 2013 there was not sufficient incentives to push forward mass adoption of full EV. Thing’s have been changing and the new financial package announced to assist COVID-19 is being designed to push this truly forward, as emissions reduction is seen as vital importance. So major investment in power supply infrastructure is expected and fiscal incentives are to be increased. All this has made more “attractive” for conventional Auto makers to go full steam ahead with EV development. Also keep in mind that, a little bit like Apple’s take on new tech, they rather wait technology to mature (and lower its cost) before fully commit, as they are not starting from scratch. This should not be misinterpreted as lack of technical capability. As far as build quality, brand status, and assistance/support dealerships goes I think they have little to worry about from Tesla.
So, not so sure how bright will be the future for Tesla.
As a personal note: tough I like some of the fine detail, namely the glass integration in the chassis, I finds Tesla built silhouettes too “Japanese” (sleek but “unsalted”)...I guess that’s what makes me like the roadster: the sleek silhouette has “personality”.
While I follow your conclusion from an American standpoint (with longer distances to travel) these arguments don‘t apply in Europe. The Ionity backbone in Europe is strong and when I have to compare charging infrastructure for my personal needs...well
With most relatives I visit they have a public 11kW charging point in walking distance (below 500m). As I intend to stay for hours on my visit, why not use that instead of a supercharger.
Next charging point is shopping malls offering dedicated 11, 22 or even 50kW charging points on their parking lots. I personally think the majority of car owners would not need Superchargers on a regular basis.
And I personally take a decent loading opening in the hatch over a frunk anytime. Doing the weekly shopping trip with a Tesla and this unergonomically designed trunk would really annoy me on a weekly basis.
Also I rather take build quality over software. Software can be patched - a bad coating is something you have to live with.
Right, the reality is your car works for you. And that’s awesome. In the end, the movement to electric is good.
But I still stand behind my point that no one is matching the power and efficiency of a Tesla. And at least in the US, no one is matching the charging capability of Tesla. The 10, 20, 50 or even 80kw charging don’t compare to Tesla when you’re on the road. A lot of the 350kw chargers around me have reviews saying they only got 50kw. So when you combine that with the efficiency, you might only get 125 miles of added range in an hour compared to a more reliable 200 miles in 30 minutes.
So while that isn’t something you need, it is a strong benefit to Tesla and shows in the actual EV world they’re still a step ahead of the rest. I’m curious how the next 5 years will go. I still don’t think there is a chance someone sells more EV’s in that time but we will see.