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Elon Musk Says Apple's 30% App Store Fee is 'Literally 10 Times Higher Than It Should Be'
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To get this straight, I can’t call a troll a troll, but people here can spit toxic garbage throughout this entire thread? Ok.
Now, to the point, I don’t excuse Musk’s statements here, they are utterly unfounded and horrendous. Saying that the fee is like a tax on the internet is obviously not true, there’s more to the internet than being an app on a phone, tablet or computer.
I do agree that the fed isn’t timely any more and should continue to be adjusted, though.
I do think hosting a digital marketplace and providing and improving the technologies needed to develop for it cost their money, but some things here need to be considered.
You don’t have a choice. If you want to cater to the most common and profitable market for apps for phones and tablets there is, you need to use the App Store. You need to use Apples tools in one way or another. And if you want to be paid for your work you need to pay Apple a commission of (up until rather recently) 1/3 of your sales. On top of that you need to use Macs to develop, which for some types of apps and developments can be very expensive as well, for example when you develop graphically intense apps.
That is very serious gate keeping. Giving one no other option than to comply with their policies and hand them a significant cut is very much not good. Also Apple continues to make it difficult for devs to thrive or even exist at some point, for example screen time management apps or the notorious Apple Watch keyboard app that was exploited by nefarious scam developers which left the OG dev in ruins while Apple didn’t do anything.
Repeatedly did and does Apple fail its developers without ever admitting to it.
I believe considering all of that the fees are too high and Apple will eventually have to Byte the apple when legislation forced them to change their practices, they brought this upon themselves.
Concerning the comments about Tesla, their pricing is a different story. I’m not one to defend them or Musk, it is just what it is. Their business model is to make money and invest it again to thrive faster with time, whereas Apple handles things a little differently as they are a well established company with a more than comfortable money stack and stock evaluation.
Also Tesla has little more to offer but their cars, to compare that to Apple would mean they have little more than their iPhones, chargers and battery packs. Not a fair comparison.
Also, how are Apples profits again on the iPhone? Something between 20-35% I believe.
Yes, Teslas FSD promise of a future „add-on“ has been a scam (imo) and Elon is an unstable person not knowing how he can literally turn a thousand peoples life into misery with a string of tweets, those things are out of the question.
But still the App Store has a monopolistic position in the market and Apple is asking too much for too little. That has nothing to do with Musk or Tesla. Yea his claims are outlandish, only asking for a 3% commission would mean Apple had to shut the App Store down, but the core statement remains true.
Now, to the point, I don’t excuse Musk’s statements here, they are utterly unfounded and horrendous. Saying that the fee is like a tax on the internet is obviously not true, there’s more to the internet than being an app on a phone, tablet or computer.
I do agree that the fed isn’t timely any more and should continue to be adjusted, though.
I do think hosting a digital marketplace and providing and improving the technologies needed to develop for it cost their money, but some things here need to be considered.
You don’t have a choice. If you want to cater to the most common and profitable market for apps for phones and tablets there is, you need to use the App Store. You need to use Apples tools in one way or another. And if you want to be paid for your work you need to pay Apple a commission of (up until rather recently) 1/3 of your sales. On top of that you need to use Macs to develop, which for some types of apps and developments can be very expensive as well, for example when you develop graphically intense apps.
That is very serious gate keeping. Giving one no other option than to comply with their policies and hand them a significant cut is very much not good. Also Apple continues to make it difficult for devs to thrive or even exist at some point, for example screen time management apps or the notorious Apple Watch keyboard app that was exploited by nefarious scam developers which left the OG dev in ruins while Apple didn’t do anything.
Repeatedly did and does Apple fail its developers without ever admitting to it.
I believe considering all of that the fees are too high and Apple will eventually have to Byte the apple when legislation forced them to change their practices, they brought this upon themselves.
Concerning the comments about Tesla, their pricing is a different story. I’m not one to defend them or Musk, it is just what it is. Their business model is to make money and invest it again to thrive faster with time, whereas Apple handles things a little differently as they are a well established company with a more than comfortable money stack and stock evaluation.
Also Tesla has little more to offer but their cars, to compare that to Apple would mean they have little more than their iPhones, chargers and battery packs. Not a fair comparison.
Also, how are Apples profits again on the iPhone? Something between 20-35% I believe.
Yes, Teslas FSD promise of a future „add-on“ has been a scam (imo) and Elon is an unstable person not knowing how he can literally turn a thousand peoples life into misery with a string of tweets, those things are out of the question.
But still the App Store has a monopolistic position in the market and Apple is asking too much for too little. That has nothing to do with Musk or Tesla. Yea his claims are outlandish, only asking for a 3% commission would mean Apple had to shut the App Store down, but the core statement remains true.
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The that he has enough money to buy Twitter for 44 Billion with a “B” tells you that he is over compensated. He has extracted more money from Tesla that the founder of Apple of his heir ever made.
Sounds like he wants to support a government take down of the App Store so that he can try to use their tech free to take their profits and develop a replacement store via twitter
Jobs didn’t claim his own daughter and then later named a computer after her.
I will never stand by that.
He also tried to make a social media and it failed.
But, he had no idea how to make anything but knew what he wanted to make. Similar to the musk comment with having very amazing people making his ideas.
The TESLA workers unions are desperately needed.... Musk is getting away with Blizzard-like abusive behaviour.
Clearly most people here aren’t shooting the message but the messenger. Which is telling about the message … disturbing for some shareholders.
Counter arguing that someone is not taxing digital commerce through an internet communicator because others don’t or do the same, at its base is a logical fallacy. What others are doing has nothing to do with the observation.
Counter arguing that someone is not taxing digital commerce through an internet communicator because others don’t or do the same, at its base is a logical fallacy. What others are doing has nothing to do with the observation.
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Apple is in a duopoly. They have a ton of control over the market and devs are left with either staying off the platform, or reluctantly agreeing to their terms.
Thank you! It's nice to be excellent at something!
You should research a bit about the series-hybrids vs. pure electrics. If feel it's actually pretty clear cut, but this isn't the thread and it's my fault for going a bit off-topic in the first place. Maybe the car thread.
And yes, it's a debatable point of view - but there is a little miracle called discourse to debate it. Why does everything devolve so quickly into kindergarten name-calling or insults? I despair for the species.
Personally I would like the see Apple take a slightly smaller cut, to get back on-topic, but Musk certainly isn't in any position to offer criticism.
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No, they charge $12K for some software upgrades though. That's why the pot is calling the kettle black. Being uber-wealthy doesn't mean the comments are to be taken in line with his wealth.
Apple is one of literally dozens of manufacturers of cell phones, with a minority market share depending on how narrow or wide your viewpoint is. Saying devs are relucantly agreeing to their terms is irrelevant. We all reluctantly agree to do things in our daily life that somehow is either needed or moves us forward. Getting involved with a money making on essentially someone else's dime, these devs should be grateful Apple even created these opportunities for little risk.
The message is not concerning cell phones but the App Store. As it stands represents the corner stone of business by fencing … or what some might say by iron head (iPhone).
There is competition between smartphones but not between the App Store and others alike.
Choosing the point of reference the App Store … the iPhone doubles as fence and lead generator. It shields the App Store from any competition while generating customers.
Using the iPhone as a shield the App Store objective is to control the flow of money between digital businesses and their customers within the boundaries of the fence. Not only the App Store but Apple Pay as well.
Apple has been campaigning between developers communities as well as end users to bring this to the Mac abandoning the open approach to the digital market aiming to control the flow of money there too. Of course this is not the marketing spiel being used … otherwise would be dead in the water. Instead the company using the same argument it used for the iPhone when launched, now more sophisticated as it mixes security in it … but the market already saw it for what it is …
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Prior to 2007 there was no such thing as an "App Store". Seems blindingly obvious now, but it was Jobs' vision that made it so.
The question is not if there are multiple App Stores but if they directly compete between each other. The App Store does not as in between there is a proxy (the iPhone) that shields and fences it from any competition …
The App Store as well as Apple Pay objective is to control the flow of money between digital businesses and their customers within the boundaries of the fence and shield. They do it very very carefully and as discrete and obfuscated as technically possible in order not to damage the iPhone reputation amongst its buyers.
From a business stand point it’s an unthinkable achievement given its size … billions of App Store customers for free with no competition. What an incredible device the iPhone really is.
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I really think he wants to starts his own app store to have more control. First he needs public opinion and some politicians on his side. Than he needs a judge to declare Apple a monopoly. Elon is a person (or a robot?) who needs control and power to feel alive.
Hopefully that "industry standard" is about to change. With regards to my comment, it was more about the armchair experts that seemingly know the particulars of the cost to run an App Store and exact income of it in order to rationalize that current costs to developers are reasonable.
The duopoly in question here is not about the hardware but business and activities related to the mobile OS space with iOS having close to 28% of the global market (around 58% in the U.S.) and Android having close to 72% of the global market (around 42% in the U.S.).
Except, there is no legimate reason that android can't have dozens of app stores, save for popularity. I am against govt regulation for popularity. (Well against all of the current proposed regulations for various reasons)
While I agree with him in principle, this is how retail usually works. A dealer expects to make 30% on anything they sell. As a manufacturer, I find that to be highway robbery because it means that I have to raise my dealer cost accordingly and then have to listen to the customers bitch that the product is too expensive. And there's no way in hell I would tolerate making less than a dealer who most likely doesn't actively sell the product but rather acts as a box-mover.
The App Store isn't a pure dealer/retail entity though. A retail store doesn't provide the tools necessary to build the products. Apple does. They have to design the tools and the APIs, design and build the devices that everything runs on, and ultimately make sure that everything works all while attempting to thwart the nefarious creatures that result in things like the cyber cesspool that is the Windows environment.
A continuous function might be a better choice. For example, a new developer with a new app might only have to pay a few percent or nothing until sales reach a certain point and as that number increases, the fee would proportionally increase not to exceed 30%.
The App Store isn't a pure dealer/retail entity though. A retail store doesn't provide the tools necessary to build the products. Apple does. They have to design the tools and the APIs, design and build the devices that everything runs on, and ultimately make sure that everything works all while attempting to thwart the nefarious creatures that result in things like the cyber cesspool that is the Windows environment.
A continuous function might be a better choice. For example, a new developer with a new app might only have to pay a few percent or nothing until sales reach a certain point and as that number increases, the fee would proportionally increase not to exceed 30%.
