eMac G5 put on hold. G4 model back in production

[AidenShaw]

right - fewer slow chips as process matures

I'd bet you anything the 1.6 is just an underclocked 1.8 off the same line. Which would explain why the popularity of the G5 Imac could be putting constraints on the supply of lower clocked G5s.

You might very well be correct.

IBM (or any other CPU manufacturer) doesn't set out to make a "1.6" chip as something different from a "1.8" chip. There's only one manufacturing process. (Within a line, of course. The PPC970 and PPC970fx are obviously different.)

All the chips go through the same process, and come on the same wafers. After the chips are made, they are tested and ranked by the fastest speed that they will reliably run. You might find that a 2.5GHz chip came from right beside a 1.6 GHz chip on the same wafer (and beside a dead chip too).

That being said, as the process matures the chips get better - you find more chips in the "fast" bins and fewer in the "slow" and "dead" bins.

Therefore, a chip sold as "slow" could easily be capable of running faster - the chip might be under-clocked in order to meet the demand for slower chips.
____________________________________


Therefore, should IBM take a "fast" chip, mark it as "slow", and sell it for less money? Doesn't make financial sense for IBM if the fast chips are in short supply - especially since the cost per chip is the same for IBM.

Therefore, would Apple want to sell fewer higher-margin "fast" machines in order to sell more lower-margin "slow" machines? Doesn't make sense for Apple if the fast chips are in short supply.

Only when the demand for fast chips is met will it be advantageous to under-clock the chips.

 

[wdlove]

I'm not at all surprised by the news. It would seem that IBM is still having problems meeting demand. I suppose that this will also allow for more iMac sales during the holiday season.

 

[maya]

Allow me to put this all in perspective:

iMac G5 is a GOOD THING, why?

it means the G5 is seeing a lot of interest in it, by Mac and PC consumers. It also means that once the eMac has even a 1.6Ghz G5 in it the iMac line will be bumped up to 1.8-2.0Ghz and so on with the rest of the line, PM and XServer.

You do not see people or companies who bought XServer crying that they spent XYZ extra dollars on a 2.0GHz XServer when you can have the same chip in a sub 1000 USD consumer machine. Same goes for those who bought PMG5 1.6GHz about a year ago.

Technology is always going to advance you buy technology to get work done not to brag that is a PC user talking they buy the best for $$$ more and thinker around with they machines to brag not to get any real work done on it or completed for that matter.

If we were all going to complain that our 2000 USD can now be had for 1000 USD that means you have not been working on the machine for about a year, that is not productive.

This also means that IBM and Apple have higher clock rated chips and this is a good thing for all.

The PowerBook and iBook will see G5 or G4 DC, whatever it maybe a desktop is in a different line then a portable. Unless you regard the PowerBook as a desktop as the PC world has done which is not a great idea.

The iMac G5 many of the current specs will make its way to the eMac G5 and the Graphic Card will stay there for about a year there after which the imac G5 rev B will have a better Graphic card with more ram and hold on that note for about a year. The Powermac will also sport a 128 Graphic card as an entry level machine and have options for 256 and 512 Graphics as BTO.

If you want to wait wait, for having todays pricey technology in tomorrows cost machine. While tomorrow pricey machine will look tempting and you will want that in your cost machine.

People who complain will always complain. This has nothing to do with a new product with problems that need to be ironed out, since that is a whole other issue.

People are just frustrated that they spent $$$ on they PowerBooks about a year to 2 years back and now you can have even faster technology at 1/4 the price. That is life in the technology space, as long as the machine that you bought 2 years back still works great that was the original intent the price you paid then also granted you the use in which case you profited more so then if you had waited.

Get a Life and Get Real.

As far as design goes the emac G5 would still be a CRT its the most logical solution its less portable than a PowerBook or iBook and to some extent an iMac G5. If you have lifted an iMac G5 you would know that its heavy now put in a CRT and that weight is added to it.

Besides the last thing you need is the EDU market having these machines easily be stolen or broken for that matter. It scares me that a consumer actually needs 64-bit power these days. That is what is crazy.

Besides 2005 will be a great year they have a new low power G5 which will make its way into the portable line (here is hoping) and also be added to the PM and iMac line while the old chips can be placed in the eMac G5.

You will not be seeing an eMac G5 2.0Ghz until early 2006 and by that time there will be dual core 64-bit computing and other neat technology.

 

[AidenShaw]

they don't

It scares me that a consumer actually needs 64-bit power these days. That is what is crazy.

What "64-bit power"?

• The OS X operating system is 32-bit only
• The consumer system (iMac) is limited to 31-bits of memory (2 GiB)
• The G4 and G5 chips are roughly the same power per MHz, the only G5 performance advantage today is more MHz (not 64-bit)

Maybe consumers need more MHz, but Apple is not selling "64-bit power" in *any* system today.

Don't be sucked in by the "64-bit myth"....

 

[maya]

On note about LCD TV:

The resolution of an LCD TV compared to an LCD Computer Monitor is far less. Thus an LCD TV can be sold for far less, since all it is meant to do is watch tv and play games and in no regard to great detail. If it seems to good to be it it usually is not.

Computer LCD monitors are still better.


On note about the iMac G5:

Some people hate it many love it thus the demand for them. I have no complaints about the speakers being on the bottom and bounce off the table. I have tried, and tested it out and I hate the sound reproduction of those speakers placed below the lcd screen. The sound sounds as everything is resonating in an EMPTY BOX, a very hollow type sound. Not a rich sound as one would obtain from external speakers. That is why I disliked them. For the individual who stated that the SuperDrive on the iMac G5 is slower, I have already spoken about this. The iMac G5 what seems to have a notebook SuperDrive installed in it (smaller). has nothing to do with its horizontal or vertical placement.

I also dislike many other things about the imac G5 rev A, too much space around the lcd screen. If you own one you will know what I am referring to, and remove the PSU from the base of the iMac G5, and external PSU will not ADD to the heat of the system which requires the fans to rev up to cool the system. (that IMHO is bad design). I have never found a PSU or Power Adapter as a hassle when transporting any machine, its better to have it separate than have it included in the system casing.

The acetate casing to make it resemble the iPod should also be thinner, it adds to the overall weight of the iMac G5. There are other little things however not as important. as the PSU and sound.

 

[macphoria]

This constant G5 shortage is starting to remind me of days when Motorola caused problems with G4 shortage. Although this G5 shortage is not quite as bad as the way it was with Motorola. For now.

 

[kotovasii]

Sort out iMac G5 1st please!!!!

Perhaps they should sort out iMac G5 first – 17” models are unusable due to the noise issues…. MacLife said – stay away from them and people are exchanging them like hot cakes… Apple is in trouble!
Ha

 

[CubaTBird]

well.....

if the emac g5's come out, their would have to be a g5 powerbook around the corner... it would be ridiculous for apple to have a "home" machine faster than their "business/professional" laptop....

 

[aswitcher]

if the emac g5's come out, their would have to be a g5 powerbook around the corner... it would be ridiculous for apple to have a "home" machine faster than their "business/professional" laptop....

The PC world is much like that though. You can pick up a pretty fine speced PC which compares well with a high end laptop...at least as regards the processor, ram and HDD...

 

[swissmann]

It seems like it won't be long before the G5 chip is in every computer Apple makes. I'm all for it. I've been tempted to buy an eMac in the past. I would be so much more tempted if it had a G5 in it - especially if the prices stay the same.

 

[gmanrique]

agree 100% - although assume the e-mac is being used in school environments and there the 'lamp design' may not take the wear and tear

So.. you do not agree 100%

 

[reyesmac]

Bad apple spoils x-mas

A 1.6 G5 with a 2 year old low ram graphics card can't be that hard to make. Now we have to wait even longer for a product that is already not that up to date now. I like the eMac, but what I don't like is Apple making the things so they become outdated in a year, even by OS updates. I hope they take the extra time to fix all the quality control issues they had with it.

 

[Jetson]

They should just drop the emac line. Those things are so butt-ugly it makes the whole company look bad (IMO!). They should bring back the 17" G4 iMac design and make it the low model. That would kick.

I've got an eMac and I think it's a GREAT machine. How anyone could think it's "butt ugly" is beyond me, but everyone has a right to flame I suppose

I'd consider purchasing another eMac if they would give it a significant upgrade to the dual-core G4 or a speedy G5 chip. I'd lean toward the G5 processor mainly because it would likely also have a much faster frontside bus than the current G4s (167 mhz is pitifully slow).

I'm disappointed that IBM can't seem to get these G5s up to speed. 1.6 ghz is a borderline improvement - I'd love to see an eMac with 2.5 to 3.0 ghz speed. There are a lot of us eMac fans - that's because it's a wonderful computer; it just needs more power. I like the new iMac G5 but it's so top heavy. It's the first computer where I had to consider the physical stability of the computer itself! The eMac has a heavy, low center of gravity - solid as a rock.

 

[aussie_geek]

Bring it on!!

I agree with many others that have posted in this topic. eMacs and PowerBooks are two different kettles of fish. One should not compare the two and start wingeing about g5's in PowerBooks.

If an eMac G5 is released I will buy one for sure. It will make a good replacement for my dual G4 867Mhz tower. Lets hope that with the combination of OSX -Tiger and a good graphics card the eMac maybe worth my while..

aussie_geek

 

[quagmire]

Perhaps they should sort out iMac G5 first – 17” models are unusable due to the noise issues…. MacLife said – stay away from them and people are exchanging them like hot cakes… Apple is in trouble!
Ha

Apple has a reputation that rev A products always have problems. When rev b comes the problems should be fixed or be a very very rare issue.

 

[zen_state]

A 1.6 G5 with a 2 year old low ram graphics card can't be that hard to make. Now we have to wait even longer for a product that is already not that up to date now. I like the eMac, but what I don't like is Apple making the things so they become outdated in a year, even by OS updates. I hope they take the extra time to fix all the quality control issues they had with it.

1. emacs are not outdated for os updates after a year.. what the heck are you talking about? panther runs perfect on the first emac ever the 700 and so will tiger. panther and tiger both support hardware that is 5+ years old so you are waaaay off in your statement.

2. anyone that expects a G5 in the emac is crazy and a tad greedy. its their bottom of the barrel system. apple has always done their best to get their loyal users the goods at a fair price for what you get (well, other than their flat panels). people always bitch about stuff like this and its very old. apple is the way it is and always has been. if you don't like it then switch to wintel.

end rant

 

[mai]

is there really a need for a g5 in an emac?

i think, the'll just gonna update the g4 to a 1.5 ghz
would keep it cheap and is of course powerful enough for
education, - the main purpose for the emac -
and the lowest end consumer mac with a g5 before the powerbook???

 

[Mainyehc]

I like the new iMac G5 but it's so top heavy. It's the first computer where I had to consider the physical stability of the computer itself! The eMac has a heavy, low center of gravity - solid as a rock.

I have a 20'' iMac G5... It's heavy as hell, yes. In fact, it is SO heavy it's actually very stable, really! I'm not afraid of (slowly) sliding it around my desk (I don't give a damn about scratches, the aluminium stand has a flat plastic foot underneath it and the desk isn't that great anyway), tilting the screen, or even lifting it and laying it down on a flat surface (which I had to do several times thanks to an unsuccessful RAM upgrade - it was defective). Sure, lifting it will put a lot of strain in your back, as lifting an eMac should, too ... But overall, the higher center of gravity doesn't seem to be an issue. I never tried to actually knock it off, but I already tested its stability, and I guess it would take a very hard push to drop that gorgeous thing flat on the desk. Something like someone falling over it... How many times have you seen your friends falling over your desk lately? I even think that the only issue with using this in schools would be the "screen poking syndrome" that is preety natural among kids (and even affects a lot of grown-ups too https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/97967/ <-- already mentioned before, and great for a good laugh).

 

[manu chao]

i think, the'll just gonna update the g4 to a 1.5 ghz
would keep it cheap and is of course powerful enough for
education, - the main purpose for the emac -
and the lowest end consumer mac with a g5 before the powerbook???

They should have done this this summer, right after they run out of iMac G4s. The novelty effect would have sold them a couple more of them and there were no iMac sales this could have eaten into. And everybody would have felt a little bit better recommending (or buying) them for the last half year.

I don't think the eMac could have taken sales away from the iBook or the Powerbook.

Probably, 1.5 Ghz chips were noticeably more expansive than 1.25 Ghz ones. Enough to have significantly affected the margin on the eMac.

 

[kotovasii]

Apple has a reputation that rev A products always have problems. When rev b comes the problems should be fixed or be a very very rare issue.

I wish I had known of the issue before – I decided to make a switch just to receive a box which does not work properly. What an experience …
How do you define this revision A, B etc??

 

[quagmire]

I wish I had known of the issue before – I decided to make a switch just to receive a box which does not work properly. What an experience …
How do you define this revision A, B etc??

Revision A means that it is totally new product. Rev B is the product being changed to fix the Rev A problems and make it faster and better than Rev A. Rev C is the same thing. Normally at Rev C the issues with Rev A should be totally gone. For example, the 12" powerbook when it was announced(rev a). That thing had the horrible warping problem. Rev b came along and the warping(metal seperates) issue is still around but, rare. I have a little bit of warping on the top of my pbook. But, is only 1-2 mm seperated. I saw some photos of Rev A warping and the metal was sticking out of the case that you can see the guts of the computer. Rev C came along and the warping issue pretty much disappeared.

Another example is with cars. I will take the F-150 as an example( I hate Fords ). The new F-150 had some problems. I heard people complain about it. In relability ratings the F-150 fell. I am sure the 2005 model will have those problems fixed.

 

[Matty P]

WOW! You can read my mind!

I Agree x infinity

I've never understood what all the fuss is about regarding the eMac and why it must be crippled compared to the PowerBooks and iMacs. The idea of the eMac is that it provides a cheap and cost-effective Apple solution to the cheap Dells that schools and families can purchase if they just want a no frills desktop computer for average everyday things. But even the low end Dells have >2.8GHz P4 chips in them these days.

An eMac with the same specs as the iMac G5 will sell well but I don't think it would eat too heavily into iMac sales just because it is cheaper. The eMac does still have a CRT and is not as nice to look at as the iMac. Not to mention, 20" LCDs don't come cheap, so the 20" iMac is very good value.

There is no reason why, with cheaper components, Apple can't make as much money on eMacs sold, so it wouldn't actually matter if eMac sales went through the roof anyway. At the end of the day, it's better to have loads of Mac sales to increase market share, even if the majority of them are low profit eMac systems. Those who switch will move onto iMacs, PowerBooks and Power Macs with their next computer purchase down the line.

Regarding the eMac vs PowerBook debate. At the end of the day, an eMac is a desktop computer and there's still no reason why pro users (non graphics/design/3D) can't use that if they need more power. There are always going to be compromises with notebook performance due to form factor and portability reasons. Plus, if they can't make a G5 work in a an inch thick laptop, then they can't put a G5 in there. It's not rocket science. All I say is don't cripple the eMac just because of PowerBook engineering problems. The PowerBook needn't worry. I wanted a PowerBook and I bought one. The eMac may have been a bit more powerful but there was no way I could lug that thing around in my backpack

 

[Pismo500]

These chip problems never seem to end. Should have switched to Intel years ago.

If your Mac was running an Intel chip right now, would OS X look any different? Would the computer look any different? No.

Apple will NEVER switch to Intel processors! Imagine being able to run "Panther" on a Pentium 4... Why would you spend the $$ to buy a Mac when you can get a PC for under $500, though at a lesser quality? I agree... I think the supply problem with the G5 is why the VP of hardware got "sacked" recently!

 

[Santaduck]

could be the emacs are intended to go up to the 1.8 speed, which might mean eating into the imac g5 supply; i can't imagine how there would be a shortage of 1.6s, unless all the slower chips generally can run at 1.8.

the sooner the better, so school districts like Maine won't have to deal w/G4s only as an economical option.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I disagree, the eMac and Powerbooks are as far part as possible. They are not for the same type of customer, so it really doesn't matter which gets a G5 first. These things are only important to hardcore Apple fans.
I might get an eMac for my son (4 years old), but not a Powerbook.

Maybe for you but for those of us who have been sitting on the fence for over a year now waiting to switch from a PC laptop to a PowerBook that actually has a pair of balls we are getting more then a tad impatient. To be blunt I don't know about others but I'm god damn pissed at this point. The PowerBook is a stunted pile of ****. Lets look at it this way. If you don't like the specs of the eMac you can step up to an iMac. Its more expensive but it IS an option. If I'm not satisfied with a 17" PowerBook I can...I can...I can either wait or get a Pentium M laptop. Maybe its just me but those are some pretty damn crappy options.