eMac G5 put on hold. G4 model back in production

[quagmire]

Maybe for you but for those of us who have been sitting on the fence for over a year now waiting to switch from a PC laptop to a PowerBook that actually has a pair of balls we are getting more then a tad impatient. To be blunt I don't know about others but I'm god damn pissed at this point. The PowerBook is a stunted pile of ****. Lets look at it this way. If you don't like the specs of the eMac you can step up to an iMac. Its more expensive but it IS an option. If I'm not satisfied with a 17" PowerBook I can...I can...I can either wait or get a Pentium M laptop. Maybe its just me but those are some pretty damn crappy options.

Well I agree the current pbooks are crap. I don't blame apple and I don't blame the guts of the pbook. I blame Moto. They suck and once we move all products to IBM proccesors we should leave freescale behind in our dust. Have a Processor on par with the Athlons and Pentiums.

 

[coolfactor]

I've got an eMac and I think it's a GREAT machine. How anyone could think it's "butt ugly" is beyond me, but everyone has a right to flame I suppose

I thought the eMac design was a bit un-Apple at first, but it's grown on me, as it has for many other doubters. In fact, there are now 3 eMacs in my circle of Mac friends, and every time someone sees one, they stroke it and say "cool computer". Never fails, happens every time.

The best part is the eMacs have ran flawlessly since day one. Not a single problem, and they still feel like new after a year of daily use. They may need a quieter fan, but they are well-built machines. Just what we all expect from Apple.

On a side note, my buddy bought a 6 month old PowerBook G4, in mint condition. As a long-time PC user, it's strange seeing him show off his new toy. "Look, open it up and it's ready to go... isn't that amazing?" He even commented: why do Macs even have Power buttons? They never get used.

 

[~Shard~]

an emac g5 whith a slow ass powerbook g4.

GOOOOOOO APPLE!

lame.

Obviously you've never used a PowerBook G4 or else you'd know there aren't slow, and are actually very slick machines. I guess this comment shouldn't surprise me though since your poorly-written post has little substance and doesn't contribute to the overall discussion going on here....

Thanks for coming out.

 

[~Shard~]

I'm going to agree with the most predictable whine ever. People would freak out if there was eMac G5 before a Powerbook G5. Just reading this thread can be a sample of the potential backlash . I'm torn here because while I think that if the technology exists for a eMac G5 it should happen..... but it doesn't make me feel too good knowing that my $2300 has a slower processor than that sub-consumer level beast.

I think if Apple can do it, they should - if they can put a G5 into an eMac before a PowerBook (which makes sense from a engineering point of view) than they should. Why should Apple pointless wait and hold back a machine just because another machine can't have what the other machine has?

If Apple waits until a G5 is in the PowerBook before releasing a G5 eMac then we won't be seeing a G5 eMac for a looong time...

Plus, the eMac and PowerBook are two completely different products, aimed at completely different market segments. Even the eMac and the iBook would be a closer comparison, and that's pushing it. All I'm saying is, how will the eMac getting a G5 affect PowerBook users? They are completely different market segments for all intents and purposes.

Just because you can throw a G5 into an eMac does not mean you can throw a G5 into a PowerBook - and for people who don't grasp this concept my suggestion is that they should take up a little technical design reading and educate themselves on why this is the case.

 

[~Shard~]

this is bad news i think, roll out the g5s in all your products already, cept the ibook

This would work except for a minor little problem called "supply". Whether it's right or not, IBM is obviously still having supply issues and there simply aren't enough G5 chips being made to allow for G5s in everything. Plus, a G5 in a PowerBook is a long ways off, whether the chip supply is there or not - supply is the least of your worries when tackling that engineering challenge.

 

[~Shard~]

If they are returning the eMac G4 to production perhaps they intend to wait quite a while before switching to a G5 - and we may not see anything until well into 2005

Possibly - Apple chose to not return to production on the G4 iMacs when they had their little JIT miscalculation, but perhaps those were different circumstances as well. Nonetheless, if Apple decides to begin producing G4 eMacs again, they must have a pretty good justification in doing so, and one wouldn't think the G5 eMacs would come out right after Christmas. Of course, if Apple has been essentially ready to go on the G5 eMac and has been focusing efforts on it, perhaps they won't wait so long. Too hard to say...

The thought of Apple selling the G4 eMac in 2005 with the exact same specs and exact same price as they were a year ago doesn't look good for Apple in my opinion.

Perhaps Apple will just upgrade the eMacs i other ways then before they move to the G5 - there is definitely room for improvement without needing to go to a G5 just yet.

 

[~Shard~]

I hope the eMac will get an LCD screen too.

I don't think it will - eMacs are partially targeted at educational institutions and to put it simply, school kids touch their screens. And this doesn't bode well for LCDs. CRTs are not dead, nor dying, many people still prefer them to LCDs, and although they result in a larger, heavier machine, this isn't a huge issue for some people or institutions.

Plus, LCDs cost more money than CRTs - an LCD eMac might bump up the price. Hmm, along those lines, a G5 in an eMac might technically bump up the price as well - can Apple sell a low-priced G5 at a decent profit?

 

[AirUncleP]

They should just drop the emac line. Those things are so butt-ugly it makes the whole company look bad (IMO!). They should bring back the 17" G4 iMac design and make it the low model. That would kick.

My school has bought 80 eMacs in the last year. Hello.

 

[~Shard~]

Lets look at it this way. If you don't like the specs of the eMac you can step up to an iMac. Its more expensive but it IS an option. If I'm not satisfied with a 17" PowerBook I can...I can...I can either wait or get a Pentium M laptop. Maybe its just me but those are some pretty damn crappy options.

Your argument is flawed. You say you can step up from an eMac to an iMac. Therefore, to remain consistent, you should be saying that you can step up from an iBook to a PowerBook. Of course you can not step up to anything beyond a 17" PowerBook, it's top of the line in the Apple world. That's like saying "If I'm not satisfied with a DP 2.5 GHz G5 PowerMac I can... I can..." Of course there's nothing you can step up to, again, it's top of the line in the Apple product world. If it's not good enough for your needs than I'm sorry, but it sure seems to be for a lot of people. My co-worker is still using his 450 MHz G4 PowerBook and it suits him just fine, so I doubt the current 17" PowerBook is that bad...

As for waiting, patience is a virtue

 

[Yvan256]

i think, the'll just gonna update the g4 to a 1.5 ghz
would keep it cheap and is of course powerful enough for
education, - the main purpose for the emac -
and the lowest end consumer mac with a g5 before the powerbook???

Well, 1.5GHz G4 would still be a 20% improvement. As long as they upgrade the GFX and VRAM too, it would be nice. But seeing the iBook "update", I doubt it.

However, they did mention a "desktop computer was going to have minor external and major internal revisions". That was after the iMac G5 release, and the eMac is way over-due for an update.

And I don't call a 20% CPU speed boost a "major internal revision".

So it's either a G5/1.6GHz or the new G4@1.5GHz (and the same G4 but dual core for the PowerBooks).

At the very least... no more Radeon 9200 with 32MB please.

 

[maya]

At the very least... no more Radeon 9200 with 32MB please.

nah Apple is going to use they favorite GPU the NVIDIA 5200 Ultra.

 

[madmaxmedia]

The eMac is a great switcher machine IMO. Some may call it ugly, but the important thing is "compared to what?" It may not be as refined as the G5 iMac, but it's still much more attractive than almost any Windows PC.

A G5 eMac might do really well too. The current G4 eMac is getting a little long in the tooth. I just bought an eMac, but it was a refurb from the Apple store for only $549- that was a screaming deal. G4 or G5, it runs all regular desktop apps great and is acceptable for Photoshop.

I'm also a convert to the AIO design (even though I'd like to see a cheaper headless Mac.) We have a new baby coming and the study is being converted, so the new eMac sits in the living room without a tangle of cables and power cords. The speakers suck but I don't even care, I'm just glad they're integrated.

 

[aswitcher]

And I don't call a 20% CPU speed boost a "major internal revision".

So it's either a G5/1.6GHz or the new G4@1.5GHz (and the same G4 but dual core for the PowerBooks).

At the very least... no more Radeon 9200 with 32MB please.

If the rumors are true then the internal revision was to be G5...

Here's hoping that they offer a 64 meg graphics card...but I fear that they wont "retool" or whatever to do that...

 

[SiliconAddict]

Regarding the eMac vs PowerBook debate. At the end of the day, an eMac is a desktop computer and there's still no reason why pro users (non graphics/design/3D) can't use that if they need more power. There are always going to be compromises with notebook performance due to form factor and portability reasons. Plus, if they can't make a G5 work in a an inch thick laptop, then they can't put a G5 in there. It's not rocket science. All I say is don't cripple the eMac just because of PowerBook engineering problems. The PowerBook needn't worry. I wanted a PowerBook and I bought one. The eMac may have been a bit more powerful but there was no way I could lug that thing around in my backpack

No offense Johnny but you are full of it. The bottom of the barrel desktop should NOT out perform the top of the line laptop that is over 3 times more expensive. You are making excuses for the craptastic performance. The reality is in the PC world the CPU's that are being placed in laptops can easily keep up with the low and medium end desktop CPU's. (Part of this is due to the craptastic performance of the P4 but that's another issue.)
A laptop isn't intended to give you basic functionality if that was the case Apple wouldn’t have gone above a 1Ghz CPU. 15 and 17" PowerBooks are intended to be a mobile workstations. It has all the specs of a desktop replacement laptop except the performance. So please give it a rest. The iBook has and will always be the low end of the Apple's laptop line but the simple fact is Apple is hit a dead end with the current gen of G4 laptops and the speedbumps over the last year have shown little to no performance increase.

 

[SiliconAddict]

Your argument is flawed. You say you can step up from an eMac to an iMac. Therefore, to remain consistent, you should be saying that you can step up from an iBook to a PowerBook. Of course you can not step up to anything beyond a 17" PowerBook, it's top of the line in the Apple world. That's like saying "If I'm not satisfied with a DP 2.5 GHz G5 PowerMac I can... I can..." Of course there's nothing you can step up to, again, it's top of the line in the Apple product world. If it's not good enough for your needs than I'm sorry, but it sure seems to be for a lot of people. My co-worker is still using his 450 MHz G4 PowerBook and it suits him just fine, so I doubt the current 17" PowerBook is that bad...

As for waiting, patience is a virtue

And top of the line in the Apple world, at least for their laptop line, sucks. Period. At least the top of the line 2.5Ghz PowerMac can keep up with the competition without breaking a sweat. You can compare the eMac to the iBook sure....you can't do the same with the PowerBook and the iMac. The iMac has gotten an entire revamp in the last couple months. Can you say the same about the PowerBook?
Bad comparison.

 

[alfismoney]

missing the point

Your argument is flawed. You say you can step up from an eMac to an iMac. Therefore, to remain consistent, you should be saying that you can step up from an iBook to a PowerBook. Of course you can not step up to anything beyond a 17" PowerBook, it's top of the line in the Apple world. That's like saying "If I'm not satisfied with a DP 2.5 GHz G5 PowerMac I can... I can..." Of course there's nothing you can step up to, again, it's top of the line in the Apple product world. If it's not good enough for your needs than I'm sorry, but it sure seems to be for a lot of people. My co-worker is still using his 450 MHz G4 PowerBook and it suits him just fine, so I doubt the current 17" PowerBook is that bad...

As for waiting, patience is a virtue

I don't think you quite got the point of this guy's argument. The G4 processor (I have a now useless pb 667 similar to your friend's) is outdated for high end usage. period. The eMac works fine the way it is for education, web browsing, even basic video editing in the home. A 1.5Ghz G4, however, even with a lot of RAM thrown in the mix, can't handle professional audio like ProTools or Digital Performer, gets crippled by power usage of the Adobe Creative Suite, and is a dog running Final Cut HD. I actually melted the titanium case off of my powerbook running these applications because the processors are not truly suited to being mobile and I can't imagine what the G5 hell they're going through now must be like. I can't hold the aluminum laptop series in my lap while doing real work because i burn myself. I have laptops shut themself off because they're running too hot, have to elevate them off my desk, and keep ice packs around to cool them. I use the web browsing emacs regularly at work when there are no g5 stations available to set up and render for 8 hours because my 'fast' laptop can't handle the pressure i put it under. Face it, the G4 is not something that we should be proud to have in the field right now. It's something Apple should be pulling at first opportunity and if the eMacs are ready they should have been shipped by now. Screw the laptop complaint threads, I'm sure Apple's not holding back there for lack of wanting. Guaranteed they're more ashamed of the Powerbook G4 than any of us are.

 

[maya]

I don't think you quite got the point of this guy's argument. The G4 processor (I have a now useless pb 667 similar to your friend's) is outdated for high end usage. period. The eMac works fine the way it is for education, web browsing, even basic video editing in the home. A 1.5Ghz G4, however, even with a lot of RAM thrown in the mix, can't handle professional audio like ProTools or Digital Performer, gets crippled by power usage of the Adobe Creative Suite, and is a dog running Final Cut HD. I actually melted the titanium case off of my powerbook running these applications because the processors are not truly suited to being mobile and I can't imagine what the G5 hell they're going through now must be like. I can't hold the aluminum laptop series in my lap while doing real work because i burn myself. I have laptops shut themself off because they're running too hot, have to elevate them off my desk, and keep ice packs around to cool them. I use the web browsing emacs regularly at work when there are no g5 stations available to set up and render for 8 hours because my 'fast' laptop can't handle the pressure i put it under. Face it, the G4 is not something that we should be proud to have in the field right now. It's something Apple should be pulling at first opportunity and if the eMacs are ready they should have been shipped by now. Screw the laptop complaint threads, I'm sure Apple's not holding back there for lack of wanting. Guaranteed they're more ashamed of the Powerbook G4 than any of us are.

Good points, I myself have never really liked the G4 chip from the start.

Something about it really eked me when it was introduced and hyped like crazy then again that is all marketing. The G5 can handle so much more when it comes to rendering and encoding.

Its a sad thing that IBM is having production issues at 2.5GHz and now 1.6GHz. Something is not looking good, since they product lines have had extended shipping dates. Seems Apple needs to place capable people and its a good thing the the hardware manager got sacked. Think Steve J has had enough of this announcing products and having them ship 3 months later, that doesn't conclude as new.

First delay of 2004:

XServer and iPod mini

Second delay of 2004:

PowerMac G5 dual 2.5GHz

Third delay of 2004:

30 inch ACD and Graphic card to run it.


Hope 2005 is not like 2004 with all the extended delays. 2003 had a reason for Virginia Tech Super Computer.

 

[Xtremehkr]

Apple definately needs more market share in order to get suppliers to get their crap together. With more market share, suppliers would be competing for business.

Not that Intel and AMD haven't had their share of delays though.

 

[RealDeal]

ever worked with IBM...

Apple suffers- because...in the 1980's won a national high school macroecomics gig (1000's schools competing)- the IBM "prize" factory visit never materialised; Chief Scientist & Engineer at a software house in 2000 with IBM partners- never delivered (lots of attitude- never the substance); attended IBM developer conference at San Fran with trivial B*S* presentations and super-easy certifications in everything; 5 IBM laptops owned, all crap; attended grandstand unveiling of new 5000 person thinktank in Canada where presentations unrehearsed and embarassing (for a 15 year old!!!!!), never mind the mega bucks for arrogants.. these guys on a different planet- let's get competent industrial engineers with business-savvy professionals...

Personally hoped eMac G5 soon, but iMac G5 a great and "strokeable" computer (the on/off button too easy to hit!)- so got. Totally wowed with fonts/icons/interface and crash-free-ness that now happy to buy a bunch of Apples for family & friends- even a G4 eMac...

 

[~Shard~]

And top of the line in the Apple world, at least for their laptop line, sucks. Period. At least the top of the line 2.5Ghz PowerMac can keep up with the competition without breaking a sweat. You can compare the eMac to the iBook sure....you can't do the same with the PowerBook and the iMac. The iMac has gotten an entire revamp in the last couple months. Can you say the same about the PowerBook?
Bad comparison.

I see what you mean now - it is unfair to compare top of the line G4 to top of the line G5 from a technology perspective, whether they are "equal" from a product line perspective or not. Your point is understood.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

No offense Johnny but you are full of it. The bottom of the barrel desktop should NOT out perform the top of the line laptop that is over 3 times more expensive. You are making excuses for the craptastic performance. The reality is in the PC world the CPU's that are being placed in laptops can easily keep up with the low and medium end desktop CPU's. (Part of this is due to the craptastic performance of the P4 but that's another issue.)
A laptop isn't intended to give you basic functionality if that was the case Apple wouldn’t have gone above a 1Ghz CPU. 15 and 17" PowerBooks are intended to be a mobile workstations. It has all the specs of a desktop replacement laptop except the performance. So please give it a rest. The iBook has and will always be the low end of the Apple's laptop line but the simple fact is Apple is hit a dead end with the current gen of G4 laptops and the speedbumps over the last year have shown little to no performance increase.

I get what you're saying, but if a 1.6GHz G5 cannot be put into a 17" PowerBook, then they can't do it. That's an engineering problem, and until Apple and IBM can sort it out, there's nothing they can do, whether they like it or not.

The recent iBook speed bump is an indication that they really would have liked the current PBs to be speed boosted but can't because they have nowhere to go. So they had to decide whether or not to go with the iBook update. I'm glad they didn't just let the iBooks remain more crippled than they had to. (Apple must have seen this coming, as they only let the 14" iBooks climb to 1.2GHz in April, allowing room to move to 1.33 last month without having to overtake the 12" PB).

It would be ironic if Motorola ended up saving the day for PowerBooks (with the dual core G4).

But back to my original point. If portability is very important for you and the 17" PB is not satisfactory for you (performance-wise), then unfortunately Apple currently doesn't have a solution for you. But why should that mean someone in the market for an eMac can't have a G5 model? They are completely different markets. And even though the 17" PB may cost 4 times as much as the eMac, it is infinitely more portable.

 

[~Shard~]

No offense Johnny but you are full of it.

Sorry, just found that comment really amusing. How does one not be offended by a comment like that? I like how you say "no offense" to somehow justify the remark that follows. Just seems like one of those phrases: "No offense but", "I'm not trying to pick a fight but", "Don't take this personally but"...

If you have to begin a sentence with "no offence but", rethink what you're about to say because guess what, you're probably going to offend.

 

[V.A.Toss]

your missing something

In this argument between; updating the emac, and pushing the powerbook out of the apple hierarchy of speed in the product line.

I think you two are missing the point to a certain extent.The question isnt whether letting one product go G5 will have an affect on another. The question is, Do you let just 1 product halt the development of another one or two, just to keep the product line looking coherent? The answer is no.

It would be silly to halt the emac developing just so the powerbook doesnt look outdated. Especially when an emac G5 is really (as stated above) a machine for switchers, its an important machine. Also its not like the powerbook was ever near the speed of PC counterparts, well maybe when the TiBook was first introduced, but it hasnt really been close since.

If you kept the emac G4, and the powerbook. Then you would have 2 stagnant and fairly outdated products.
If you made the emac G5 you would make it the best value mac around, but the powerbook would look even worse. So you would only have 1 outdated product.

Ofcourse the emac G5 could be a big hint from apple that new powerbooks are around the corner. Just a thought.

 

[mai]

hell yes,

They should have done this this summer, right after they run out of iMac G4s.
Probably, 1.5 Ghz chips were noticeably more expansive than 1.25 Ghz ones. Enough to have significantly affected the margin on the eMac.

However, they did mention a "desktop computer was going to have minor external and major internal revisions". That was after the iMac G5 release, and the eMac is way over-due for an update.
So it's either a G5/1.6GHz or the new G4@1.5GHz (and the same G4 but dual core for the PowerBooks).

i think summer would have been to early for an update, because of a profitable average product cycle of half a year and 'til now every update did bring along a price dump as i remember, but that now it did took much more time than the "cycle-time" also let trust me into a whole new g5 emac, because the mpc 7448 is not expected to ship before h1 2005 (at the earliest april i would say, freescale itself stated), and in that case, i just hope to get the pb finally also "g5-ed"

 

[Yvan256]

nah Apple is going to use they favorite GPU the NVIDIA 5200 Ultra.

I really wouldn't mind the FX 5200 Ultra 64MB in the eMac G5 (in fact I'm actually *hoping* it's going to be that, or else it'll be stuck with Radeon 9200 32MB again like the new iBook speed bump).

But it does seems like a joke to put that (FX 5200 Ultra 64MB) into the iMac G5.