Epic: Fortnite Offline Worldwide 'Until Apple Unblocks It'

[Stuwil]

This is embarrassingly oversimplified, but it is a perfect example of the kind of thinking that will drive a successful business to bankruptcy.

If that’s not a concern, then let us know how you would convince the 30 million+ small developers (the majority of which are happy with the current system because it works and delivers world class developer support at a very affordable price) that their costs are going up — because one large scumbag company wants to freeload on the AppStore infrastructure — and not to worry because this change will somehow be good for them. <satire>

Epic never said apple was not entitled to zero commission for IAP

 

[surferfb]

Epic never said apple was not entitled to zero commission for IAP

Sure, but they did say they should get to use Apple's Intellectual Property without paying for it. And then went out and broke a contractual agreement to do so.

 

[Stuwil]

Microsoft had a terrible business plan or none. Cell phones were exceedingly popular in 2007 and yet apple disrupted the industry. Microsoft scoffed at the idea and it should have been a harbinger.

It’s a common debating tactic but conflating Microsoft’s attempted penetration into the industry with the memes about dollars underscore a solid business plan is needed.

It 2007 mate
They relaunched touchscreen devices in 2010
With their own OS as well
But they couldn’t compete with apple and google because they were a small company with not much income so maybe a much bigger company is needed to compete with
Apple and google in mobile

Not a company who releases its own OS and also its own mobile devices
But maybe we need a bigger company to compete in the west
Because Microsoft are a little small independent company and they couldn’t do it

 

[Sophisticatednut]

So a little computer company called Microsoft couldn’t penetrate iOS & android with their very little money available
Yet a bigger company with more resources are going to do what is only currently being done in china.

Yet this is not the reason for government regulation or payment links in the west
But in china there is no such payment links?

Well even with money you still need to have a good product. If you have a good product and care for consumers before making money you will do great.

As long as the bigger players don’t try and interfere. Had Microsoft, Nokia, blackberry etc payed the mobile network providers for exclusivity deals to push apple out.
Had Google refused YouTube, Google maps etc then it would likely have ended apples future in the market as another failure among many.

Just how nobody can compete with steam despite being bigger and have more resources.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple has no guarantee, based on Epic’s past behavior, that Epic would comply if Apple wins its appeal and the guidelines change again.

Quite the irony - given that Apple has shown failure to comply with both the DSA in Europe and the earlier Epic ruling.

Do you really believe usage-based infrastructure and recurring operational costs can sustainably be recovered on a de minimus flat annual fee basis? They can’t.

What I believe is irrelevant - it’s what Apple charge.

That’s why infrastructure costs such as ISP costs are usage based and monthly recurring

As a matter of fact, I’ve been paying a flat monthly fee for my internet access for about two decades.

And access to apples billions of curated customers. Whether you agree or not it is what it is.

Not true. Access to billions of (App Store) customers does only cost the yearly developer subscription fee.
There lots of free to download apps to prove that.

 

[I7guy]

It 2007 mate
They relaunched touchscreen devices in 2010
With their own OS as well
But they couldn’t compete with apple and google because they were a small company with not much income so maybe a much bigger company is needed to compete with
Apple and google in mobile

Microsoft flubbed it. Apple disrupted a thriving industry in 2007. In 2010 Microsoft tries, but they had a terrible business plan, ie none. They could have had the entire market.

Not a company who releases its own OS and also its own mobile devices
But maybe we need a bigger company to compete in the west
Because Microsoft are a little small independent company and they couldn’t do it

getting involved in this business requires investment capital and a good business plan. Just like Apple disrupted another company who has some acumen might also.

 

[Stuwil]

Well even with money you still need to have a good product. If you have a good product and care for consumers before making money you will do great.

As long as the bigger players don’t try and interfere. Had Microsoft, Nokia, blackberry etc payed the mobile network providers for exclusivity deals to push apple out.
Had Google refused YouTube, Google maps etc then it would likely have ended apples future in the market as another failure among many.

Just how nobody can compete with steam despite being bigger and have more resources.

Just like google not putting the YouTube app on the lumia mobile’s made by windows buddy from 2010 (hint hint)

 

[I7guy]

[…]


Not true. Access to billions of (App Store) customers does only cost the yearly developer subscription fee.

The $99 in the scheme of things is irrelevant and grants the license to ounlish in the App Store. Try to open up another business for $99 where one has access to billions of customers.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

And access to apples billions of curated customers. Whether you agree or not it is what it is.

Curated? They would sell an iPhone to Pablo Escobar.

Microsoft flubbed it. Apple disrupted a thriving industry in 2007. In 2010 Microsoft tries, but they had a terrible business plan, ie none. They could have had the entire market.

getting involved in this business requires investment capital and a good business plan. Just like Apple disrupted another company who has some acumen might also.

What happened was all of their anticompetitive behaviour caught up with them and they missed the boat.

Apple had better hope history doesn't repeat itself.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Are you or have you ever been developer? If yes, prior to the world of mobile apps? As a previous developer there is NO WAY I want that. Do you not understand the barrier to entry that it could pose if Apple went of costs to have apps in the store instead of a revenue sharing model?

Hosting and content delivery isn’t that expensive.
Just look at the traffic Netflix or Youtube are pushing.

Even the most successful app on the App Store I was involved with made multiple millions per year and we were totally ok with Apple taking its 30%. Would it be great if the % was lower, of course.

It would be great - and appropriate if the commission rate sould be subject to competition.

Sure, but they did say they should get to use Apple's Intellectual Property without paying for it. And then went out and broke a contractual agreement to do so.

They are - morally - right to use Apple’s property at the same rate as Instagram, TikTok, Uber, etc.

What Apple have been doing is anticompetitive overreach.
And it’s now coming back at them by regulators and legislators.

And I, a 20 year Apple fan (or rather… used to be one) is applauding every bit of regulatory action against Apple.
And every million or percentage of revenue fine Apple incurs.

 

[turbineseaplane]

(the majority of which are happy with the current system because it works and delivers world class developer support at a very affordable price)

Do you have a source for that developer happiness metric?

 

[Stuwil]

Microsoft flubbed it. Apple disrupted a thriving industry in 2007. In 2010 Microsoft tries, but they had a terrible business plan, ie none. They could have had the entire market.

getting involved in this business requires investment capital and a good business plan. Just like Apple disrupted another company who has some acumen might also.

You only know they relaunched in 2010 because I mentioned it
And it never failed because of a poor business model or poor OS
Developers wouldn’t make apps for it
And a certain company blocked popular apps for it because they didn’t want competition in the west

 

[heretiq]

As a matter of fact, I’ve been paying a flat monthly fee for my internet access for about two decades.

Your flat rate plan has usage caps (unless you are one of the rare individuals who’ve been grandfathered in an unlimited plan).

 

[turbineseaplane]

because one large scumbag company wants to freeload on the AppStore infrastructure

Nobody wants to freeload .. in fact, the "scumbag company" (your words, not mine) would be delighted to just offer their Apps direct to consumer and not burden any of Apple's AppStore infrastructure.

Apple is the one FORCING people to "burden their infrastructure"

 

[Sophisticatednut]

This is embarrassingly oversimplified, but it is a perfect example of the kind of thinking that will drive a successful business to bankruptcy.

If that’s not a concern, then let us know how you would convince the 30 million+ small developers (the majority of which are happy with the current system because it works and delivers world class developer support at a very affordable price) that their costs are going up — because one large scumbag company wants to freeload on the AppStore infrastructure — and not to worry because this change will somehow be good for them. <satire>

I would convince Amazon( and every other app) to use ApplePay, in the same way Apple convinced Sony from using ApplePay in the PlayStation Store.
Alongside ApplePay( I believe 0.3%), I would have IAP with more services included for 10% fee.

Then I would have a 99$ one time developer payment to get a developer account.

Have 0% commission for any sales done in the AppStore below 10 million company revenue from my store. Then 5% revenue share for anything above that.

 

[Stuwil]

Sure, but they did say they should get to use Apple's Intellectual Property without paying for it. And then went out and broke a contractual agreement to do so.

Epic has already said 12% is more than enough to run a store and make a profit
But Apple refused to negotiate with them before this issue went to court

 

[AppliedMicro]

The $99 in the scheme of things is irrelevant and grants the license to ounlish in the App Store. Try to open up another business for $99 where one has access to billions of customers

No problem at sll:

I can set up an internet web site for a Euro a month.
And distribute to billions of potential customers.

Without having to pay commission to the web hosting service I chose.
Or without those customers having to buy a new hardware device for hundreds of dollars.

 

[heretiq]

Quite the irony - given that Apple has shown failure to comply with both the DSA in Europe and the earlier Epic ruling.

What I believe is irrelevant - it’s what Apple charge.

As a matter of fact, I’ve been paying a flat monthly fee for my internet access for about two decades.


Not true. Access to billions of (App Store) customers does only cost the yearly developer subscription fee.
There lots of free to download apps to prove that.

These arguments are total nonsense.

I would convince Amazon( and every other app) to use ApplePay, in the same way Apple convinced Sony from using ApplePay in the PlayStation Store.
Alongside ApplePay( I believe 0.3%), I would have IAP with more services included for 10% fee.

Then I would have a 99$ one time developer payment to get a developer account.

Have 0% commission for any sales done in the AppStore below 10 million company revenue from my store. Then 5% revenue share for anything above that.

Maybe you should go build a competing App Store infrastructure and show Apple how to do their business the “right” way. 🤔

 

[heretiq]

No problem at sll:

I can set up an internet web site for a Euro a month.
And distribute to billions of potential customers.

Without having to pay commission to the web hosting service I chose.
Or without those customers having to buy a new hardware device for hundreds of dollars.

And how will those billions of customers find your little web site? Are you prepared to invest tens of millions of dollars to establish your brand and drive traffic there then pay millions more in hosting and transport fees for the delivery and handling of traffic from tens of millions of daily site visitors .. or do you expect to build your little website and sit back and watch the world beat a path to it?

 

[Stuwil]

These arguments are total nonsense.

Maybe you should go build a competing App Store infrastructure and show Apple how to do their business the “right” way. 🤔

Well huawei has and are they not selling well in china compared with apple?

If the iOS App Store is the best then they would have no issue letting other stores compete against it?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Maybe you should go build a competing App Store infrastructure and show Apple how to do their business the “right” way. 🤔

Right way? Apple simply takes more than they provide of value. Had the AppStore been on the same level of services like Valve provides in the steam store i would take 30%.

I simply would use the AppStore to grow in other ways. Having the ApplePay 0.3% fee in all the places would bring greater revenue than clinging to a 15% or 30% revenue cut.

Taking 0.3% of all Amazon sales, uber sales, Dinerdash etc would be massive

 

[surferfb]

They are - morally - right to use Apple’s property at the same rate as Instagram, TikTok, Uber, etc.

And this is why we’ll never agree 🤣

I see using someone’s property against their desires as theft. You see it as morally justified.

 

[surferfb]

I simply would use the AppStore to grow in other ways. Having the ApplePay 0.3% fee in all the places would bring greater revenue than clinging to a 15% or 30% revenue cut.

Taking 0.3% of all Amazon sales, uber sales, Dinerdash etc would be massive

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your argument, but in what world would any of the DMA defenders agree that Apple is entitled to force developers to offer/use Apple Pay?!?

Most of you don’t even think Apple is allowed to ask developers to pay for use of Apple’s property! But it’s cool that they force all those apps to accept Apple Pay?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your argument, but in what world would any of the DMA defenders agree that Apple is entitled to force developers to use Apple Pay?!?

Most of you don’t even think Apple is allowed to ask developers to pay for use of Apple’s property! But it’s cool that they force all those apps to accept Apple Pay?

Well force in the form that including ApplePay as an option next to their other payment option, as I believe ApplePay is more convenient than any other payment option. Same way how login with Apple is a requirement next to Facebook or Google.

I believe Apple have al the right in the world to require developer to pay for their IP. They have the developer license and the first purchase done. I don’t believe Apple have a right to demand that they use apples infrastructure to make In app purchases.

Example if I could use ApplePay in the Xbox store, or steam I would use that over the current option.

 

[heretiq]

Right way? Apple simply takes more than they provide of value. Had the AppStore been on the same level of services like Valve provides in the steam store i would take 30%.

I simply would use the AppStore to grow in other ways. Having the ApplePay 0.3% fee in all the places would bring greater revenue than clinging to a 15% or 30% revenue cut.

Taking 0.3% of all Amazon sales, uber sales, Dinerdash etc would be massive

Let me get this straight: You want to solve the problem of Apple purportedly over-charging with their 15/30% of revenue by instituting a broad-based fee that would .. allow them to make even more money?? This is strange logic.