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I7guy said:
Citation to prove a smartphone is a job requirement.

Graphene O/S also. There are other operating systems.

No painting an accurate picture of the inaccuracies being promulgated.

Graphene O/S.

No one requires cellular connections and internet. A smartphone is not a requirement for life although it is convenient. For example I make phone calls from my desktop.
Click to expand...
So there is graphene O/S does that come pre installed on any mobile device you can purchase in a phone shop

My company has told everyone to download this app from either iOS or android app store
Without I can’t do part of my job
And more companies are going this way
Because the individuals without are in the minority so these changes can get implemented

You are correct my wee 92 year old granny doesn’t have a smartphone in today’s age
But she is in an old folks home so yes you are kind of right
 
I7guy said:
Wrong. if one wants to play semantics, Android is derived from Linux and Linux is derived from Unix the great grandfather of iOS and Mac OS . So basically there is one operating system according to your logic. Oh well.
Click to expand...
This is nothing but bizarrely confounding.
You're now playing word games again.

To be clear for anyone: GrapheneOS works just like Stock Android on pixels (plus a few alterations and security/privacy enhancements and minus some Google-related services removed). It runs exactly the same applications as Stock Android does, without emulation or anything. In essence, it's comparable to differences between Microsoft Windows Home and Professional/Enterprise distributions, which are still considered (variations) of the same operating system.
 
Stuwil said:
So there is graphene O/S does that come pre installed on any mobile device you can purchase in a phone shop
Click to expand...
Why are you now moving the goalposts when proven incorrect?
Stuwil said:
My company has told everyone to download this app from either iOS or android app store
Without I can’t do part of my job
And more companies are going this way
Because the individuals without are in the minority so these changes can get implemented
Click to expand...
You just proved that a smartphone is not life requirement. Anecdotal evidence never accounts for absolute fact.
Stuwil said:
You are correct my wee 92 year old granny doesn’t have a smartphone in today’s age
But she is in an old folks home so yes you are kind of right
Click to expand...
👍
 
turbineseaplane said:
I can't even believe anyone is dismissing how critical smartphone access is to vast swaths of the world population.
Click to expand...
I can accept the opinion that - despite smartphones being such vital tools in our everyday lives - governments should not regulate anything less than of "life or death" matters and products (though I don't agree).

But disputing the importance and role of such devices in our lives is just bizarre. We don't live 20 years ago.
 
turbineseaplane said:
There are plenty of good vectors to debate this topic, but going down the "smartphones aren't essential" road is a losing argument from the outset.
Click to expand...
Its really not. My grandparents in their 80s get by just fine with their flip phones. And at that age it is more crucial that they are more "connected" with their health and doctor visits and getting their retirement funds. They do just fine with a flip phone.
 
AppliedMicro said:
This is nothing but bizarrely confounding.
You're now playing word games again.
Click to expand...
There are no word games. I’m just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems.
AppliedMicro said:
To be clear for anyone: GrapheneOS works just like Stock Android on pixels (plus a few alterations and security/privacy enhancements and minus some Google-related services removed). It runs exactly the same applications as Stock Android does, without emulation or anything. In essence, it's comparable to differences between Microsoft Windows Home and Professional/Enterprise distributions, which are still considered (variations) of the same operating system.
Click to expand...
To be clear all of these operating systems are derived from Linux which got its inspiration from Unix. How anybody could refute that is beyond me.
 
Ethosik said:
Its really not. My grandparents in their 80s get by just fine with their flip phones. And at that age it is more crucial that they are more "connected" with their health and doctor visits and getting their retirement funds. They do just fine with a flip phone.
Click to expand...

👆 → 👇

turbineseaplane said:
It's an absolutely vital tool unless you're in fairly niche situations, retired or just much older I suppose.
Click to expand...

Additionally, I'm not sure folks in their 80's should be our guiding principle on issues like this.
 
I7guy said:
I’m just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems.
Click to expand...
No.

- Stuwil said that choice of operating system is limited to iOS and Android.
- You then claimed "there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers."
- Being asked which operating systems you meant that are "not iOS or a skin on top of android"...
- You stated "Linux".
- And again being asked what Linux.
- You specified "Graphene O/S"
- Being corrected by me that GrapheneOS is a variation of Android.
- You now resort to claiming "just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems."

Conclusion:
  1. You failed to support your claim that there are multiple operating systems with any ones of relevance (that are not basically Android).
  2. And you're also disingenuous playing words games to weasel out of it.
As I (also) said numerous times:
  • There is a duopoly of Android and iOS as smartphone operating systems of choice.
  • You have numerous times tried to dispute that by claiming (as above) that there are multiple ones.
  • You have failed (numerous times) to back that up with anything, any OS of real-world relevance
  • ...thereby resorting to word games and nitpicking about minor semantics.
 
Last edited:
AppliedMicro said:
No.

- Stuwil said that choice of operating system is limited to iOS and Android.
- You then claimed "there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers."
- Being asked which operating systems you meant that are "not iOS or a skin on top of android"...
- You stated "Linux".
- And again being asked what Linux.
- You specified "Graphene O/S"
- Being corrected by me that GrapheneOS is a variation of Android.
- You now resort to claiming "just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems."

Conclusion:
  1. You failed to support your claim that there are multiple operating systems with any ones of relevance (that are not basically Android).
  2. And you're also disingenuous playing words games to weasel out of it.
Click to expand...
Claim supported there are more than two operating systems. You are in fact moving the goal posts and playing word games.

Many of stuwills posts are strawman.
 
I7guy said:
Why are you now moving the goalposts when proven incorrect?

You just proved that a smartphone is not life requirement. Anecdotal evidence never accounts for absolute fact.

👍
Click to expand...
My wee granny is in a retirement home at 92 years old why would she need a smartphone she doesn’t leave the building or do anything
That’s the point.

How have you proven me incorrect as you can’t walk into a phone store and purchase a mobile phone with graphene O/S on it
Plus if I’m correct you can still get the play store on it
So then that’s still based on android
 
Stuwil said:
How have you proven me incorrect as you can’t walk into a phone store and purchase a mobile phone with graphene O/S on it
Click to expand...
Prepare to be "corrected" that there's at least some phone store somewhere in the world that has undertaken the world of opening the Pixel's retail box and flashing GrapheneOS on them before selling them to customers.

That is of course of no economic relevance - since your average phone store - don't have them, wherever you are in the world. But it's @I7guy's way of making and supporting his arguments.


EDIT: There you have 'em (two examples):
https://liberateyourtech.com/product/buy-grapheneos-phone-pixel-new/
https://threecats.com.au/degoogled-phones-australia-sale-buy-pixel-pro-android-grapheneos#Order
 
Ethosik said:
No, but it would significantly devalue the company, thus their stock, thus investors and shareholders don't want to see that thus could lead to a cascade effect. Playing with any sorts of revenue, especially when you are as big as Apple is tricky business.

We are literally reaching the ultimate endgame of capitalism and it is horrible. This is why we have game companies increasing the cost of the 5 year old console and $80 games because they do not want to have ANY DIP in their quarterly earnings. And everyone's retirement investments depends on this constant growth mechanic.
Click to expand...
No, that’s because of Trump and his tariffs.
 
Stuwil said:
My wee granny is in a retirement home at 92 years old why would she need a smartphone she doesn’t leave the building or do anything
That’s the point.

How have you proven me incorrect as you can’t walk into a phone store and purchase a mobile phone with graphene O/S on it
Plus if I’m correct you can still get the play store on it
So then that’s still based on android
Click to expand...
It’s not relevant how one can purchase a smartphone, only that one can.

Android is based on Linux. Linux was inspired from Unix. So what’s your point? These are all unix based. And yet they are different operating systems.
 
Stuwil said:
Plus if I’m correct you can still get the play store on it
Click to expand...
Installation of Google Play (and then the Play Store) is included as an option in the default Graphene OS installation.
I7guy said:
Android is based on Linux. Linux was inspired from Unix. So what’s your point? These are all unix based. And yet they are different operating systems.
Click to expand...
...macOS Sequoia is a "totally" different operating system than macOS Sonoma.
That's the level you're "supporting" your argument that there's multiple operating systems.
Or saying android isn’t derived or a variant of Linux.
Click to expand...
I never said that. (Quite the opposite, I just said it runs a modified Linux kernel).
That's a straw-man argument.


PS:
The fact they all share some dna but do things differently makes them different.
Click to expand...
There's macOS - and it comes in different versions. So do Microsoft Windows and Android. No one in the world has and problem or ambiguity in considering them the "same" (respective) operating systems in the context of app compatibility/app ecosystems (what we're discussing here).

Even my mother can do it: tell that's she's switched from Windows (one operating system, of which she's used several versions) to Mac (another operating systems).
 
Last edited:
I7guy said:
It’s not relevant how one can purchase a smartphone, only that one can.

Android is based on Linux. Linux was inspired from Unix. So what’s your point? These are all unix based. And yet they are different operating systems.
Click to expand...
No you said you didn’t require a smartphone to function in today’s society and what I’m saying is if you’re 92 years old in a retirement home then you are correct
However you also don’t do what people of working age do.

You have two choices in mobile OS’s when you go into a mobile shop like a Vodafone store
Having a skin on top of android is not having multiple choices
Being for example iOS and android and harmony OS that you can walk into a store and purchase from
Not flash it on top.
 
AppliedMicro said:
No.

- Stuwil said that choice of operating system is limited to iOS and Android.
- You then claimed "there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers."
- Being asked which operating systems you meant that are "not iOS or a skin on top of android"...
- You stated "Linux".
- And again being asked what Linux.
- You specified "Graphene O/S"
- Being corrected by me that GrapheneOS is a variation of Android.
- You now resort to claiming "just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems."

Conclusion:
  1. You failed to support your claim that there are multiple operating systems with any ones of relevance (that are not basically Android).
  2. And you're also disingenuous playing words games to weasel out of it.
As I (also) said numerous times:
  • There is a duopoly of Android and iOS as smartphone operating systems of choice.
  • You have numerous times tried to dispute that by claiming (as above) that there are multiple ones.
  • You have failed (numerous times) to back that up with anything, any OS of real-world relevance
  • ...thereby resorting to word games and nitpicking about minor semantics.
Click to expand...
Sailfish OS, Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, and Mobian are non-Android alternate OSs, available for public download and installation.

KaiOS and HarmonyOS NEXT are available to the public through retail devices.

They’re not popular but they do exist for people who want an alternative.

The fact that iOS and Android have dominant market share is the result of providing products that the market wants. That does not negate the fact that alternatives do exist for many who want an alternative.
 
Ethosik said:
What is the company? What is the app? What if you don't have a smart phone?
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s relevant to give my place of employment
It’s an app that’s hidden on the App Store and you can only get it from a QR code
The reason they can do it is the older people have retired
But I’m seeing this more and more
It’s like anything the people without are now the minority so companies implement things that require a smartphone
 
heretiq said:
Sailfish OS, Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, and Mobian are non-Android alternate OSs, available for public download and installation.

KaiOS and HarmonyOS NEXT are available to the public through retail devices.

They’re not popular but they do exist for people who want an alternative.

The fact that iOS and Android have dominant market share is the result of providing products that the market wants. That does not negate the fact that alternatives do exist for many who want an alternative.
Click to expand...
Yes you can get KAI OS & harmony os in china yes in a proper store

However these other operating systems are not pre installed on devices from a store like Vodafone store
So they are pretty pointless because the majority of people won’t use them

Then that must mean in china the market wants an alternative to iOS because that’s what the market wants
 
Last edited:
heretiq said:
Sailfish OS, Ubuntu Touch, Plasma Mobile, and Mobian are non-Android alternate OSs, available for public download and installation.

KaiOS and HarmonyOS NEXT are available to the public through retail devices.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your constructive approach to naming real alternatives - but do believe they lack economic relevance.

In the end, Apple's fight for their in-app purchase monopoly and Epic's and Spotify's to end it, is mostly economically driven and motivated. And so is EU regulation. We may agree on that?
 
AppliedMicro said:
No.

- Stuwil said that choice of operating system is limited to iOS and Android.
- You then claimed "there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers."
- Being asked which operating systems you meant that are "not iOS or a skin on top of android"...
- You stated "Linux".
- And again being asked what Linux.
- You specified "Graphene O/S"
- Being corrected by me that GrapheneOS is a variation of Android.
- You now resort to claiming "just providing the actual facts of the genealogy of the operating systems."

Conclusion:
  1. You failed to support your claim that there are multiple operating systems with any ones of relevance (that are not basically Android).
  2. And you're also disingenuous playing words games to weasel out of it.
As I (also) said numerous times:
  • There is a duopoly of Android and iOS as smartphone operating systems of choice.
  • You have numerous times tried to dispute that by claiming (as above) that there are multiple ones.
  • You have failed (numerous times) to back that up with anything, any OS of real-world relevance
  • ...thereby resorting to word games and nitpicking about minor semantics.
Click to expand...
Well by the logic iOS and android is one and the same so we would have a single os 😂
 
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