Epic: Fortnite Offline Worldwide 'Until Apple Unblocks It'

[Stuwil]

Tim Sweeney’s Epic Games Store Is Still Losing Money After Five Years

That’s straight from Epic Games Store head Steve Allison on the witness stand who admitted the storefront is still losing money.

www.forbes.com

Seems like Epic Games Store's 12% isn't doing the best job for them now is it?

30% is industry standard, really not sure why people have a big issue with this when Tim Sweeney stated in court that what their charge their Epic Store doesn't help. And it shows because that storefront sucks. Given all Apple does, 30% is definitely worth it.

Epic game store is not pre installed on over
1.5 billion active users accounts is it?

If 30% is the industry standard then what companies use it?

So what does Apple do to earn that 30% commission what makes that store stand out

 

[Stuwil]

Not really. There is iOS App Store and Google Play Store, but as an example if you have a Samsung phone you can use this. https://galaxystore.samsung.com/games

You have two choices of operating systems

Having multiple different versions of android is different and you know it
So that is why you are seeing payment links
Then side loading in Brazil
Other app stores in the EU
And this will continue because of how the mobile market is setup in the west

They

 

[Abazigal]

Epic game store is not pre installed on over
1.5 billion active users accounts is it?

If 30% is the industry standard then what companies use it?

So what does Apple do to earn that 30% commission what makes that store stand out

Pretty much every console company.

Nintendo.
Sony.
Xbox.
Steam

What does Nintendo do which makes it worth 30% but not Apple?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Dead wrong .. Netflix’s annual AWS bill 2 years ago was about $1 billion. These arguments and the conclusions based on them are woefully and comically uninformed.

Woefully comical and uninformed is you considering this as refuting my assertion that "isn't that expensive".
Did you actually read the article you linked? If not, I'll quote it right here:

👉 “Surprisingly, this accounts for only 4% of its annual revenue”

And that is for streaming of large video content. For a business that, because of the very nature of its business model (and size), is among the highest storage and bandwidth users in the world. There hardly is or could be any other app-based business model that could use more storage and bandwidth.

4% - contrast that with Apple's 30% for transaction processing.

Imagine, Netflix would (have to) make all of its payments through Apple. When something costs 4% to deliver (just deliver - not make/create!), 30% for payment processing fees is obviously and grossly disproportionate.

 

[Stuwil]

Pretty much every console company.

Nintendo.
Sony.
Xbox.
Steam

What does Nintendo do which makes it worth 30% but not Apple?

if we take the console makers first
How many active users do Nintendo have using their switch platform
Compared with iOS & android
And how do they achieve that

Then if we take steam for example how many users have they got?

 

[surferfb]

if we take the console makers first
How many active users do Nintendo have using their switch platform
Compared with iOS & android
And how do they achieve that

Then if we take steam for example how many users have they got?

Again, if anything Apple’s larger number of users is justification for a higher commission, not a lower one. But there really is no rational reason to tie the two together.

 

[Stuwil]

Again, if anything Apple’s larger number of users is justification for a higher commission, not a lower one. But there really is no rational reason to tie the two together.

How do apple and google manage to get
A large user base compared with Nintendo what makes them have a larger customer base how do they achieve that?
What makes them have a bigger audience than Nintendo for example

 

[surferfb]

How do apple and google manage to get
A large user base compared with
Nintendo what makes them have a larger customer base how do they achieve that?
What makes them have a bigger audience than Nintendo for example.

A smartphone is, at present, considered more useful than a gaming consoles by a larger number of people.

 

[Stuwil]

A smartphone is, at present, considered more useful than a gaming consoles by a larger number of people.

So does that mean that more people will naturally buy an iOS or android smartphone over a dedicated games console?

 

[God of Biscuits]

EPIC: waaah, Apple blocked us worldwide!
APPLE: no we didn’t, just in the USA because you didn’t change anything.
EPIC: well, yeah, but WE blocked OURSELVES a worldwide, so there! We’re blocked worldwide!

 

[surferfb]

So does that mean that more people will naturally buy an iOS or android smartphone over a dedicated games console?

Currently, yes - I would assume if forced to pick between the two, no one (relatively speaking) would pick a games console over a phone. For a long time that wasn’t the case, and it might not always be the case in the future.

There’s also nothing preventing someone like Nintendo from throwing a cellular modem in a Switch and having a go at it. I suspect there’d be a good sized market for a “Nintendo Phone”.

Again though, all of this is moot. There’s no reason market size should have any bearing on commissions charged.

 

[heretiq]

Woefully comical and uninformed is you considering this as refuting my assertion that "isn't that expensive".
Did you actually read the article you linked? If not, I'll quote it right here:

👉 “Surprisingly, this accounts for only 4% of its annual revenue”

And that is for streaming of large video content. For a business that, because of the very nature of its business model (and size), is among the highest storage and bandwidth users in the world. There hardly is or could be any other app-based business model that could use more storage and bandwidth.

4% - contrast that with Apple's 30% for transaction processing.

Imagine, Netflix would (have to) make all of its payments through Apple. When something costs 4% to deliver (just deliver - not make/create!), 30% for payment processing fees is obviously and grossly disproportionate.

Well, I’ll give you credit for consistency and predictability — consistent cherry picking to support comical conclusions.

FYI: I read the entire article including the phrase you expectedly pounced on, and linked to it knowing this would be the retort: trying to equate one piece of the utility provided by Apple to the price for the whole which includes considerably more.

PSA: $1B is only “inexpensive” to someone who’s not paying for it. And making that statement then doubling down on it with an obvious apples to bananas statement when called out is comical — because you know the 30% is not just for payment processing yet continue to state that as if repeating it will somehow make it true.

 

[Stuwil]

Currently, yes - I would assume if forced to pick between the two, no one (relatively speaking) would pick a games console over a phone. For a long time that wasn’t the case, and it might not always be the case in the future.

There’s also nothing preventing someone like Nintendo from throwing a cellular modem in a Switch and having a go at it. I suspect there’d be a good sized market for a “Nintendo Phone”.

Again though, all of this is moot. There’s no reason market size should have any bearing on commissions charged.

because if you buy a games console it’s because you actually want to play games on it
That is why Nintendo only has 178 million switch users worldwide

Where as iOS and android have a combined user base of about 5 billion users worldwide and in today’s society you pretty much need a smartphone to function in today’s working environment.
That is why it’s different because a games console maker has to worker harder to get an individual to part with their income but not so much with a smartphone maker because unless it’s in china then your choices are iOS or android

 

[AppliedMicro]

I read the entire article including the phrase you expectedly pounced on, and linked to it knowing this would be the retort: trying to equate one piece of the utility provided by Apple to the price for the whole which includes considerably more.

I already said it yesterday:
Companies like Netflix and Spotify need zero App Store service from Apple. Apple is only trying to force it upon them.
Their apps need cryptographic signing to run on iOS - and that's it.

The bottom line is this:
Companies at the scale of Netflix and Spotify can secure their own content delivery and transaction processing - at a fraction of what Apple charges as part of their 30% commission. That is why they don't offer in-app subscriptions through Apple. It's not a great deal to them (although it may very well be for much smaller developers).

 

[I7guy]

because if you buy a games console it’s because you actually want to play games on it
That is why Nintendo only has 178 million switch users worldwide

Where as iOS and android have a combined user base of about 5 billion users worldwide and in today’s society you pretty much need a smartphone to function in today’s working environment.

In today’s environment I agree a cell phone is needed. A smartphone is a convenient form factor for an amalgam of other technologies.

That is why it’s different because a games console maker has to worker harder to get an individual to part with their income but not so much with a smartphone maker because unless it’s in china then your choices are iOS or android

Nothing to do with fees or commissions and there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers.

 

[Stuwil]

In today’s environment I agree a cell phone is needed. A smartphone is a convenient form factor for an amalgam of other technologies.

Nothing to do with fees or commissions and there are still multiple operating systems across hundreds of manufacturers.

If a cell phone is all that is needed in this day and age
Then why are more places of employment requiring you to download an app to book holidays and request overtime etc
It’s not like the 1990’s anymore.

Apart from in china
Can you tell me any mobile OS that I can purchase in a mobile phone shop that is not iOS or a skin on top of android

As I previously said
Where as iOS and android have a combined user base of about 5 billion users worldwide and in today’s society you pretty much need a smartphone to function in today’s working environment.
That is why it’s different because a games console maker has to worker harder to get an individual to part with their income but not so much with a smartphone maker because unless it’s in china then your choices are iOS or android

 

[I7guy]

If a cell phone is all that is needed in this day and age
Then why are more places of employment requiring you to download an app to book holidays and request overtime etc
It’s not like the 1990’s anymore.

No requirement for a “smartphone”. Employers provide the needed equipment unless one elects to byod.

Apart from in china
Can you tell me any mobile OS that I can purchase in a mobile phone shop that is not iOS or a skin on top of android

Linux.

As I previously said
Where as iOS and android have a combined user base of about 5 billion users worldwide and in today’s society you pretty much need a smartphone to function in today’s working environment.

A cellular modem with a laptop will work and iPad will work, it is not as convenient because of the form factor.

That is why it’s different because a games console maker has to worker harder to get an individual to part with their income but not so much with a smartphone maker because unless it’s in china then your choices are iOS or android

A good friend uses a Linux operating system on his phone. Many friends of mine throw money at game console. Manufacturers do t have to “work” in any sense of the word.

 

[heretiq]

I already said it yesterday:
Companies like Netflix and Spotify need zero App Store service from Apple. Apple is only trying to force it upon them.
Their apps need cryptographic signing to run on iOS - and that's it.

The bottom line is this:
Companies at the scale of Netflix and Spotify can secure their own content delivery and transaction processing - at a fraction of what Apple charges as part of their 30% commission. That is why they don't offer in-app subscriptions through Apple. It's not a great deal to them (although it may very well be for much smaller developers).

This argument is akin to making a reservation at the Ritz, checking-in, staying the night then insisting you should pay less than the nightly rate you agreed to because you brought your own towels and used your Surface laptop for entertainment instead of the in-room tv.

The App Store is a package deal — not a la carte. Developers get to choose whether to take it or leave it. It is a great deal for 90+% of developers. Epic and other large swindlers don’t get to agree to the terms then try to wriggle out of them by deception and ruining a good system for everyone else. Clever sounding, but uninformed arguments don’t change any of that.

 

[spyguy10709]

Tim Sweeney wants the 30% + $$$$ from epic games store on iOS. That's greed. Sorry.

literally no

 

[Stuwil]

No requirement for a “smartphone”. Employers provide the needed equipment unless one elects to byod.

Linux.

A cellular modem with a laptop will work and iPad will work, it is not as convenient because of the form factor.

A good friend uses a Linux operating system on his phone. Many friends of mine throw money at game console. Manufacturers do t have to “work” in any sense of the word.

Not if it’s company policy to download said app for work related things like holidays and uniform etc

What can you get Linux on a mobile device that is sold on a phone shop?

So you want to go back to the 1990’s
To live?

right so does Linux come pre installed on mobile devices and if so what are they called?

Yeah they do because if you want a dedicated games console then it’s because you want one so that is why Nintendo has 178 million users
Where as iOS has 1.5 billion and android has 3.5 billion because in this day and age of working people you require a smartphone to function in today’s society or you will be cut off.

 

[Stuwil]

This argument is akin to making a reservation at the Ritz, checking-in, staying the night then insisting you should pay less than the nightly rate you agreed to because you brought your own towels and used your Surface laptop for entertainment instead of the in-room tv.

The App Store is a package deal — not a la carte. Developers gets to choose whether to take it or leave it. It was intended and is a great deal for small developers. Epic and other large swindlers don’t get to agree to the terms then try to wriggle out of them by deception and ruining a good system for everyone else. Clever sounding, but uninformed arguments don’t change any of that.

What good system has epic actually ruined in regards to the iOS App Store

A swindler
a person who uses deception to deprive someone of money or possessions.
or you could say what they tried to do was get better terms

 

[I7guy]

Not if it’s company policy to download said app for work related things like holidays and uniform etc

Citation to prove a smartphone is a job requirement.

What can you get Linux on a mobile device that is sold on a phone shop?

Graphene O/S also. There are other operating systems.

So you want to go back to the 1990’s
To live?

No painting an accurate picture of the inaccuracies being promulgated.

right so does Linux come pre installed on mobile devices and if so what are they called?

Graphene O/S.

Yeah they do because if you want a dedicated games console then it’s because you want one so that is why Nintendo has 178 million users
Where as iOS has 1.5 billion and android has 3.5 billion because in this day and age of working people you require a smartphone to function in today’s society or you will be cut off.

No one requires cellular connections and internet. A smartphone is not a requirement for life although it is convenient. For example I make phone calls from my desktop.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Graphene O/S also.

Graphene O/S.

Wrong.

Graphene OS is an Android distribution.

That clearly fails to answer @Stuwil's question "Can you tell me any mobile OS that I can purchase in a mobile phone shop that is not iOS or a skin on top of android". And it does not come preinstalled on devices in distribution.

And no, please don't try to weasel your way out by claiming it's not a "skin" or how Android uses a modified Linux kernel.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It's actually something I've put in my quiver for potential usage interest down the road one day, depending upon where iOS and iPhone hardware goes (or not).

 

[I7guy]

Wrong.

Graphene OS is an Android distribution.

That clearly fails to answer @Stuwil's question "Can you tell me any mobile OS that I can purchase in a mobile phone shop that is not iOS or a skin on top of android".

Wrong. if one wants to play semantics, Android is derived from Linux and Linux is derived from Unix the great grandfather of iOS and Mac OS . So basically there is one operating system according to your logic. Oh well.

And please dont use weasley words to make it seem like android is not derived from Linux.