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Apple may lose this battle one day, but they wont lose to Epic ... that’s for sure ... they can just buy them out for the legal fees of this ridiculous lawsuit alone ... Apple’s methods are what are making them a practically $2T company ... they effectively do not have to sell their games on the App Store ... Dont get me wrong, I like the game, and if my kids lose it, they will lose their S$%& ... But we do have other ways to play.

Thing is, Apple will have to decide if this is worth the backlash. Apple has a heavy reliance on services and this is why they are taking it so seriously, there's a potential for Apple to lose a lot of money, and I'm not talking millions. Let's say they don't backdown, well gamers might move to other devices for gaming. It's a problematic situation, especially if Epic Games manages to get government or private backing.
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Epic is stupid.

Great addition to the conversation, worthy of a post. There were so many interesting points.
 
Thing is, Apple will have to decide if this is worth the backlash. Apple has a heavy reliance on services and this is why they are taking it so seriously, there's a potential for Apple to lose a lot of money, and I'm not talking millions. Let's say they don't backdown, well gamers might move to other devices for gaming. It's a problematic situation, especially if Epic Games manages to get government or private backing.
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Great addition to the conversation, worthy of a post. There were so many interesting points.
What backlash? Apple’s customers don’t care.
 
Bingo, most parents already Have credit cards on file with Apple. Epic knows It would be a real hassle if the kid had to harass mom or dad every time for a credit card number just save two dollars. Plus most parents would question where the hell these $10 charges go
 
So the parents who buy their sons and daughters a phone, won't want to buy Apple anymore since it doesn't come with their favourite games (not just Fortnite). Therefore, the backlash is a lower number of sales. I'm not talking about verbal backlash which there obviously already is currently.
What phone will they be able to buy instead?
 
So the parents who buy their sons and daughters a phone, won't want to buy Apple anymore since it doesn't come with their favourite games (not just Fortnite). Therefore, the backlash is a lower number of sales. I'm not talking about verbal backlash which there obviously already is currently.

Then let's let it happen. This is what Capitalism is all about. If I offer a service that charges $1,000 and a competitor comes around and charges $100, I should change my prices when I see my customers leave for my competitors.

Let capitalism work. If enough people leave for Android, Apple will either change, or let the iPhone die out.
 
This seems part of a larger battle being done against Apple. Weird, but I think true.

But, yeah, if Apple's rules are you have to run things through their payment system, and they have a darn good system, and they want a cut, is Epic going to lose their poop over the 'cut' that credit card companies charge? If they were listing and selling on ebay, would they declare jihad on ebay for charging fees for selling on their service? Does their CEO piss holy hell at paying for cap fare, or Uber drivers? DO they rant at the charges for concert tickets, and dry cleaning?

At some point, you have to realize that to live in Apple's ecosystem, you have to pay for the privilege. They knew that going in. Apple curates their app store. Google really doesn't. Stuff gets refused probably on a daily basis. That costs. ALso the payment system, ApplePay, it costs Apple to run that too. Forcing Epic's customers to use Apple Pay isn't a hardship for their customers, it's a feature, right? (Does Apple require Apple Pay, or some other secure payment option?)

Whatever. The next time their CEO is speeding because he doesn't believe in rules, he can explain his theory of how he gets to decide, and no one else does.

Epic is being childish.
 
Yeah, Epic is acting very immature about this whole thing. There is a right way to question Apple's system and a wrong way. Epic did the very very wrong way. You break the rules, you app gets removed. Its that simple.

What would be the right way?

I agree it’s within Apple’s right to remove the app. It’s also within Epic’s right to file a lawsuit challenging that rule violation as being against antitrust law and launching a PR campaign.
 
What would be the right way?

I agree it’s within Apple’s right to remove the app. It’s also within Epic’s right to file a lawsuit challenging that rule violation as being against antitrust law and launching a PR campaign.

What this article is about now. But keeping Fortnite the way it was. Intentionally breaking the rules and complaining and suing is very immature.

This article is focusing on the right way - an equivalent of a protest.
 
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Bring back the original iOS App Store and let them sell on there - Installer.app. Or, the second iOS App Store - Cydia.

it is a shame that Apple locked them out after they made their on App Store! Enough with the monopoly bs. Do something pro-consumer for once!
 
But in reality, it's not a CCP issue. The issue is the fee.
Who gets to decide what is a fair fee for access to the platform you create and are continually investing and revamping, not to mention supporting on a higher level than anyone else.
 
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I have little to no sympathy for Tim Sweeney and Epic Games. Mr. Sweeney has an estimated net worth of $5.3 billion and the company has estimated revenues of $5 billion for 2020. I'm not complaining that he is rich and I am not. I am thinking much of what Epic wants is to make more more without investing anything and they are well rewarded in their current model. Mr Sweeney has turned childish and taken to arms to save us, the consumer. Balderdash, it does not smell good in that pity party room.

During the pandemic quaratines, players logged billion of hours of usage and the company was taking in $400 million per month. Did Epic help out anyone with a temporary cost reduction? They did give some games away for free, but that is mostly a non-event since in-game purchases are where their money is made in most of their games. The company'sjustification was the you can play for free. Clearly players put out lots of money for new skins and other visual enhancements. How much of those revenues might have helped families in need from losing their jobs?

Assume the IAP cost never existed. Would Epic really be charging $8 instead of $10 for in-game currency. No. Simple human economic visuals would say pricing would never be $8. Who pays $8? It would have been $10 and Epic would be making even more. The argument that they would only charge $8 (or $7, or $6) is only being made as a red herring to throw off the focus from their revenues. The company would work to make as much as they can, and people will pay $10 to get in game cash regardless of how much Epic makes.

I am sure if you ask people, 99% will say they want to pay less for something. The entire application market for mobile games demonstrates the "make it seem free since no one will pay". But once hooked, many people will pay whatever it takes to keep up with the Jones in the game, whether that is $7, $8 or $10. For Epic that means billions in revenue.

My gut reaction is Tim Sweeney is a rich and now spoiled developer who has a burr up his butt that he is willing to spend countless millions to bring satisfaction that he attack his Goliath. He is not setting out to save the developer world. It is his vendetta. His childish video is cute, many will like it, but it certainly paints him in a bad light. Other folks want in on the fight too. Hey Netflix...why don't you invest billions in building out an internet delivery platform....you certainly use enough bandwidth in my neighborhood to impact my video production. But they too complain about IAP costs while benefitting from the delivery systems build by many players. That seems equally disingenuous to me.

It's easy to complain about a strong App Store and a ton of users that a company is working to make money off of. Isn't Epic selling a game a ton of people want and they are looking to create an in-game monopoly to make money off of it. Epic already gave up the build you own approach to stores...it is hard, costly, time consuming, fraught with issues of risk, fraud, malware, review, protection, and much more. Epic is making billions taking advantage of all the distribution options that have take 10 years or more to develop. They invested nothing in it.

So Epic, and others, build something big and win, or work within the system that provides your success and keep building things rather than slaying your enemy by divine righteousness.
 
It just struck me that if Epic makes most its money off of consoles vs mobile, they are could be coming out with some mobile first games they plan on making a lot from; in which case this is their chance ensure they will maximize their profits before its released.
 
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I have little to no sympathy for Tim Sweeney and Epic Games. Mr. Sweeney has an estimated net worth of $5.3 billion and the company has estimated revenues of $5 billion for 2020. I'm not complaining that he is rich and I am not. I am thinking much of what Epic wants is to make more more without investing anything and they are well rewarded in their current model. Mr Sweeney has turned childish and taken to arms to save us, the consumer. Balderdash, it does not smell good in that pity party room.

During the pandemic quaratines, players logged billion of hours of usage and the company was taking in $400 million per month. Did Epic help out anyone with a temporary cost reduction? They did give some games away for free, but that is mostly a non-event since in-game purchases are where their money is made in most of their games. The company'sjustification was the you can play for free. Clearly players put out lots of money for new skins and other visual enhancements. How much of those revenues might have helped families in need from losing their jobs?

Assume the IAP cost never existed. Would Epic really be charging $8 instead of $10 for in-game currency. No. Simple human economic visuals would say pricing would never be $8. Who pays $8? It would have been $10 and Epic would be making even more. The argument that they would only charge $8 (or $7, or $6) is only being made as a red herring to throw off the focus from their revenues. The company would work to make as much as they can, and people will pay $10 to get in game cash regardless of how much Epic makes.

I am sure if you ask people, 99% will say they want to pay less for something. The entire application market for mobile games demonstrates the "make it seem free since no one will pay". But once hooked, many people will pay whatever it takes to keep up with the Jones in the game, whether that is $7, $8 or $10. For Epic that means billions in revenue.

My gut reaction is Tim Sweeney is a rich and now spoiled developer who has a burr up his butt that he is willing to spend countless millions to bring satisfaction that he attack his Goliath. He is not setting out to save the developer world. It is his vendetta. His childish video is cute, many will like it, but it certainly paints him in a bad light. Other folks want in on the fight too. Hey Netflix...why don't you invest billions in building out an internet delivery platform....you certainly use enough bandwidth in my neighborhood to impact my video production. But they too complain about IAP costs while benefitting from the delivery systems build by many players. That seems equally disingenuous to me.

It's easy to complain about a strong App Store and a ton of users that a company is working to make money off of. Isn't Epic selling a game a ton of people want and they are looking to create an in-game monopoly to make money off of it. Epic already gave up the build you own approach to stores...it is hard, costly, time consuming, fraught with issues of risk, fraud, malware, review, protection, and much more. Epic is making billions taking advantage of all the distribution options that have take 10 years or more to develop. They invested nothing in it.

So Epic, and others, build something big and win, or work within the system that provides your success and keep building things rather than slaying your enemy by divine righteousness.

I agree. I hope this whole free to play or in app purchases goes south and never comes back at some point. I have a few people in my life who are addicted to this stuff. Spending hundreds of "cards" or "skins" yet need assistance if they need their roof replaced.
 
What this article is about now. But keeping Fortnite the way it was. Intentionally breaking the rules and complaining and suing is very immature.

This article is focusing on the right way - an equivalent of a protest.

Would that actually cause Apple to listen — and change anything?

Was it “immature” for the Boston colonists to dump all that tea? Sure. But sometimes it works — and being the winner, it’s taught in schools as an act of courage and heroism today.
 
I get that the argument that the 30% Apple fee is high and and they can fight about that. But the argument about giving choice to where you get the apps from by opening up iOS to other app stores or "sideloading" apps is a bad path to go down. It just opens iOS up to the same issues that are on android with malware and viruses and adds complexity for the everyday user.
 
Would that actually cause Apple to listen — and change anything?

Was it “immature” for the Boston colonists to dump all that tea? Sure. But sometimes it works — and being the winner, it’s taught in schools as an act of courage and heroism today.
If enough developers pull their app in protest and more people move to Android - absolutely Apple will listen.
 
This will not end well. Apple is not a Chinese company. Attacking China is the PC move today.
 
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