Epic Games Aiming to Recruit 'Coalition of Apple Critics' to Fight App Store Policies

[Metrosey]

Then let's let it happen. This is what Capitalism is all about. If I offer a service that charges $1,000 and a competitor comes around and charges $100, I should change my prices when I see my customers leave for my competitors.

Let capitalism work. If enough people leave for Android, Apple will either change, or let the iPhone die out.

Yes, but this is what is needed to produce the movement. So it's a step in the right direction.

Who gets to decide what is a fair fee for access to the platform you create and are continually investing and revamping, not to mention supporting on a higher level than anyone else.

Who decides? Well that's based on a lot of aspects. If I was the only person to sell healthcare in the US using machines for CT scans, etc, do you think charging $100,000 per customer would be a fair fee? I'm investing and revamping the service, but at the same time making billions of profit which I give to shareholders while the average person gets a lower quality of life. Is that a fair fee? Do Americans think their health service is fair? As mentioned a fair fee doesn't really exist, it's based on many factors. If Apple were charging 50 percent per transaction, making the developers lose 50 percent of their funds, and in turn, needing to increase prices by 50 percent to make a small/medium profit, all the while Apple is making billions of profit after investment, updating and revamping, so their shareholders benefit, is that fair? Yes they developed the platform, but they are making billions, they aren't just covering their costs after service spending fees, they aren't making a lose. I expect many wouldn't have a problem if they spent the billions on the end consumer, but they aren't, it goes to the shareholders and as a cash reserve to invest in pro-business avenues.

PS - I actually largely support Apple in most instances, along with enjoying their products, however, I also have values and this is something I believe needs to be changed. It's effecting developers and end consumers.

 

[Ethosik]

I get that the argument that the 30% Apple fee is high and and they can fight about that. But the argument about giving choice to where you get the apps from by opening up iOS to other app stores or "sideloading" apps is a bad path to go down. It just opens iOS up to the same issues that are on android with malware and viruses and adds complexity for the everyday user.

But who are we to decide on how much a product should cost? Can we force NVIDIA to make the 2080 Ti $100? What gives us the right to say 30% is too much? Some developers might be VERY VERY happy with 30%.

 

[4jasontv]

While Epic had preliminary discussions with Spotify, the music streaming company had not signed on to join Epic as of last week. Spotify did, however, weigh in on the dispute, applauding Epic's decision to "take a stand against Apple."

This should read "while Epic had preliminary discussions with Spotify, owned in part by parent companies Tencent, Spotify has so far only applauded Epic's decision to "take a stand against Apple."

Can we stop referencing companies owned by the company in question as a reliable source of support? In this case even Epic's family isn't really that supportive of Epic.

 

[MrKahuna]

You can only buy Fortnite skins inside the game from Epic. Should Epic win this battle with Apple they’ll open up their own platform for other people to setup stores inside Fortnite with no Epic fees right?

 

[7149041]

So the parents who buy their sons and daughters a phone, won't want to buy Apple anymore since it doesn't come with their favourite games

I don’t have kids yet but I sure won’t get them an Android device, that would be just cruel, possibly qualifying as domestic abuse 😂

 

[4jasontv]

Then let's let it happen. This is what Capitalism is all about. If I offer a service that charges $1,000 and a competitor comes around and charges $100, I should change my prices when I see my customers leave for my competitors.

Let capitalism work. If enough people leave for Android, Apple will either change, or let the iPhone die out.

Or you can justify the cost.

 

[Ethosik]

Yes, but this is what is needed to produce the movement. So it's a step in the right direction.



Who decides? Well that's based on a lot of aspects. If I was the only person to sell healthcare in the US using machines for CT scans, etc, do you think charging $100,000 per customer would be a fair fee? I'm investing and revamping the service, but at the same time making billions of profit which I give to shareholders while the average person gets a lower quality of life. Is that a fair fee? Do Americans think their health service is fair? As mentioned a fair fee doesn't really exist, it's based on many factors. If Apple were charging 50 percent per transaction, making the developers lose 50 percent of their funds, and in turn, needing to increase prices by 50 percent to make a small/medium profit, all the while Apple is making billions of profit after investment, updating and revamping, so their shareholders benefit, is that fair? Yes they developed the platform, but they are making billions, they aren't just covering their costs after server spending fees, they aren't making a lose. I expect many wouldn't have a problem if they spent the billions on the end consumer, but they aren't, it goes to the shareholders and as a cash reserve to invest in pro-business avenues.

THIS is what is needed. Not breaking the rules of a contract you agreed to. That is just 100% wrong and immature. I do not know how anyone can agree with breaking the rules. If Epic were to voluntarily pull their app from iOS and Google, it would be different. But they broke the rules because they want things to appear to be in their favor.

 

[CthuluLemon]

The goal all along, they’re fighting a PR battle, not a court battle. Apple needs to wise up and adjust their counter-strategy, they’re being played like a fiddle as it stands.

 

[7149041]

Doesn’t PlayStation and Xbox also charge a 30% fee?

everybody does, some charge even more, but apparently only Apple is evil here

 

[4jasontv]

The goal all along, they’re fighting a PR battle, not a court battle. Apple needs to wise up and adjust their counter-strategy.

Honestly I would like to see Apple ban all Tencent apps and any apps that use Tencent technologies. People would get upset and then someone would come along and provide a better product than Unreal and Spotify. Not everything has to get cheaper. Sometimes it can get better!

 

[Freida]

I'm with Epic on this one. 30% fees is crazy high especially when some big companies get special treatment (like Amazon)

 

[Metrosey]

I agree. I hope this whole free to play or in app purchases goes south and never comes back at some point. I have a few people in my life who are addicted to this stuff. Spending hundreds of "cards" or "skins" yet need assistance if they need their roof replaced.

Sadly Steam is largely to blame for this happening in the gaming market in the west.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Honestly I would like to see Apple ban all Tencent apps and any apps that use Tencent technologies. People would get upset and then someone would come along and provide a better product than Unreal and Spotify. Not everything has to get cheaper. Sometimes it can get better!

Who’s arguing things should be cheaper? I could easily argue by not paying Apple a 30% cut would leave Epic more funds for development, improving their products. We can all play the conjecture game, but it doesn’t give it any weight.

 

[4jasontv]

I'm with Epic on this one. 30% fees is crazy high especially when some big companies get special treatment (like Amazon)

What is this Amazon reference. Amazon pays Apple 30%.

 

[az431]

'grab popcorn'

How many times are people going to trout out this tired (and now completely unoriginal) old gem.

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

If app developers were charging fair prices for their goods then one could envision a lower commission on IAPs but until then I don't really see any options.

Who do you think drove the market down to F2P?

 

[J InTech82]

I agree. I hope this whole free to play or in app purchases goes south and never comes back at some point. I have a few people in my life who are addicted to this stuff. Spending hundreds of "cards" or "skins" yet need assistance if they need their roof replaced.

Exactly. It's an addiction, must like a drug or gambling.

 

[Metrosey]

But who are we to decide on how much a product should cost? Can we force NVIDIA to make the 2080 Ti $100? What gives us the right to say 30% is too much? Some developers might be VERY VERY happy with 30%.

Of course we can't, but that's a single product, it's not a service that is tied to a monopoly. Developers don't have to pay NVIDIA 30 percent for every game they publish that supports NVIDIA GPUs, nor is NVIDIA saying if you support our GPUs, then you can't support competitors.

 

[kalafalas]

Nintendo, Playstation, and Xbox all have similar fees for their digital stores and even their physical distribution, with no alternative on the platform. Why is Apple any different?

 

[Metrosey]

THIS is what is needed. Not breaking the rules of a contract you agreed to. That is just 100% wrong and immature. I do not know how anyone can agree with breaking the rules. If Epic were to voluntarily pull their app from iOS and Google, it would be different. But they broke the rules because they want things to appear to be in their favor.

No one is complaining that the App shouldn't have been taken down, the complaint is about the core terms of the service.

 

[4jasontv]

Who’s arguing things should be cheaper? I could easily argue by not paying Apple a 30% cut would leave Epic more funds for development, improving their products. We can all play the conjecture game, but it doesn’t give it any weight.

xWhiplash did. They said someone could come along and offer a similar service for less and the original should considering lower their price.

 

[HangmanSwingset]

If I’m remembering my numbers correctly, when Epic added their own payment method it was at $7.99. Apple’s was $9.99.
If Apple was taking 30%, that would’ve been $6.99 Epic earns.
So what I see is Epic is trying to earn another dollar per transaction on someone else’s platform. There’s nothing here that screams “We’re doing it for the customers!” They’re doing it for their profit.

 

[CthuluLemon]

Nintendo, Playstation, and Xbox all have similar fees for their digital stores and even their physical distribution, with no alternative on the platform. Why is Apple any different?

Because you are buying into gaming platforms, not general communications devices. You don’t have to factor in how you communicate in general when deciding to purchase their hardware for gaming, just what you want to game on. Apple is using its wider ecosystem to affect purchasing decisions and tie where you choose to play to your mobile phone, despite gaming only being one of a number of reasons to buy a phone. I’d rather not have to limit myself to Apple’s gaming platform just because I chose an iPhone. I don’t use my PS5 or Switch the way I use mobile phones, so I don’t have to weigh choosing their device against how I use my phone for things that have nothing to do with gaming. I should t be unable to play a game on the device I own just so I can have a phone with iMessage.

If consoles become used as ubiquitously as smartphones, you might have an argument though, so hold onto it for now.

 

[Metrosey]

Nintendo, Playstation, and Xbox all have similar fees for their digital stores and even their physical distribution, with no alternative on the platform. Why is Apple any different?

I don't think PS or Xbox charge developers 30 percent per sale and then 30 percent per transaction.

 

[Metrosey]

If I’m remembering my numbers correctly, when Epic added their own payment method it was at $7.99. Apple’s was $9.99.
If Apple was taking 30%, that would’ve been $6.99 Epic earns.
So what I see is Epic is trying to earn another dollar per transaction on someone else’s platform. There’s nothing here that screams “We’re doing it for the customers!” They’re doing it for their profit.

Yet it's still cheaper. Plus, Epic themselves have to pay for transaction fees and service chargers, which would likely cost more than Apples alternatives fees since they would have been able to get a better contract.