Their goal is set in the legal documents. They want the Epic App/Game Store on iOS, they want to bugger up iOS apps as much as they have already damaged desktop gaming.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Their goal is set in the legal documents. They want the Epic App/Game Store on iOS, they want to bugger up iOS apps as much as they have already damaged desktop gaming.
I always think of shark tank when I hear that.
“25% of a watermelon is a lot better than 100% of a grape”.
Why do people even buy subscriptions or in game items in the app ?
Most of the time you can get a lot better deal from the developers web site directly
Most of the time you can get a lot better deal from the developers web site directly
It's fine that Apple sets the rules in its appstore and charges whatever they want.
It's not fair that the owner of iOS devices have no other means of getting software. This is not a game console. It's a full blown computer. Apple is even marketing the iPad as the next computer.
Add a gatekeeper option like on the mac and the whole thing will go away. Don't do it and the anti trust commissions will do stupid things.
[automerge]1599395932[/automerge]
becaue they don't know? Developer isn't allowed to tell the users of the app.
It's not fair that the owner of iOS devices have no other means of getting software. This is not a game console. It's a full blown computer. Apple is even marketing the iPad as the next computer.
Add a gatekeeper option like on the mac and the whole thing will go away. Don't do it and the anti trust commissions will do stupid things.
[automerge]1599395932[/automerge]
becaue they don't know? Developer isn't allowed to tell the users of the app.
Well people in the game will see an item and want it, if they have to go to the website and sign up or remember their login details... the sale is lost. IAP are easy, perhaps a little too easy.
LOL, because even though the post was overwhelmingly in favor of the status quo, there are many posts where the sentiment is Apple should be taken down a notch or two. And while I have an opinion, I don't have a crystal ball and hope Apple will prevail, not the least of the reasoning being showing the courts view the App store as being legal and not a monopoly as people have been conveying.
Oh there’s plenty of bad faith, but does that change anything. There’s also unclean hands. Under the Sherman Act, that isn’t a barrier to bringing an action.
Well, setting aside the fact that neither of us could possibly know, I do wonder whether, at some point in his life, he may decide to work toward something other than putting money in his pocket.
As his own mortality begins to dawn on him, it may be that he decides to do something more meaningful with his remaining time on this earth. Maybe not; you may very well be right. After all, he’s a smart guy and all, but he’s no Elon. Epic may indeed be it 🤷♂️
Yeah You’re right, that was meant for another poster 😬
I definitely agree with the overall sentiment, if not each and every point!
Apparently not enough people for Epic to stay off the Google Play store at least.
Whatever flavor they used in Jonestown. Epic didn't bring this lawsuit for the people, they tried to leverage their size to increase their own bottom line. They can try to play the victim card all they want but the general public sees right through it. They got greedy, it blew up in their face, and now they've backed themselves into a corner they can't get out of without humiliating themselves. As an iOS developer I think 30% is a bit steep but those are the rules I agreed to. Apple is not a non-profit company and in exchange for 30% I get direct distribution to hundreds of millions of potential customers. This is no different than trying to sell a product through traditional distribution chains. The wholesalers and the retailers all get their cut. Apple happens to be both.
It was a calculated move from Epic. They had the ad ready to go, Microsoft had already made comments, Spotify came out in support of Epic. I think they thought they could rattle the cages and gain some traction but it may not go how they had hoped.
I’m just really shocked Epic would do it right before the next Fortnite season launched. They should have done it after the peak of when users spend their money, plus by doing it after the season launched, at least the iOS users would have been able to still play with the new content. Epic executed this so poorly that they’re probably going to end up backing down.
I’m just really shocked Epic would do it right before the next Fortnite season launched. They should have done it after the peak of when users spend their money, plus by doing it after the season launched, at least the iOS users would have been able to still play with the new content. Epic executed this so poorly that they’re probably going to end up backing down.
Out of interest.
Say I made china plates, and I wanted to sell then in a plate store.
Now let's say that plate store is one of the biggest plate stores in the USA.
They want 30% from me for each plate that get's sold in their store.
And I'm ok with this.
Could this plate store legally say to me, I'm not allowed to sell my plates for a lower price in another store, even my own tiny store when I make the plates?
I must always sell the plates I make to customers at exactly that same price the GIANT plate store sells my plates for?
Say I made china plates, and I wanted to sell then in a plate store.
Now let's say that plate store is one of the biggest plate stores in the USA.
They want 30% from me for each plate that get's sold in their store.
And I'm ok with this.
Could this plate store legally say to me, I'm not allowed to sell my plates for a lower price in another store, even my own tiny store when I make the plates?
I must always sell the plates I make to customers at exactly that same price the GIANT plate store sells my plates for?
Apple: "You're voilating the terms of our App store that you agreed to when you put your product on it."
Epic Games: "BAHAHA, we are Epic Games, b*tch! We DARE you to remove us from the App store! LOL!
Apple: "Okay...done."
Epic Games:
Epic Games: "BAHAHA, we are Epic Games, b*tch! We DARE you to remove us from the App store! LOL!
Apple: "Okay...done."
Epic Games:
The short answer is yes. The longer answer will depend on what kind of agreement you arrange and if you are allowed to sell independently or to other suppliers and you will not see such generous percentages in retail. You might earn 12% on each plate. A shop will likely argue you are devaluing their brand if you sell cheeper else where. For instance a lot of products one of my clients sells on his web shop and physical shop he is not allowed to sell on his eBay store.
Who said Apple has to “justify” the 30%? You think this lawsuit is about “fairness”?
Epic is trying to prove Apple’s dev agreement violates the Sherman antitrust act. They’re attempting to do that by accusing Apple of illegally tying their monopoly of the iOS OS to two downstream “relevant markets”, app distribution and IAP payment processing.
Apple doesn’t consider app distribution and IAP payment processing to be the relevant markets, they see smartphone OSes as the relevant market (vis a vis the Sherman Act). Thus, Apple doesn’t have a monopoly and their can be no illegal tying.
At least that’s how I understand this latest filing by Epic.
The plate store doesn't care if you sell your plates from your own store. The giant plate store will not refer customers to your website. But if a customer is smart enough to determine you have a website, customer can buy their plate from your website. The plate store will handle the plates' sale securely and safely and market the heck out of your plates. Furthermore the plate store doesn't care if the plates were purchased on your website...you can pick up your plates on the plate store.
If there is a problem with the plates the giant plate store will take care of the issue no muss no fuss and if you want to return the plates you get your money back immediately. The giant plate store will also give you a detailed breakdown of your business in the plate store.
Seems the giant plate store, while taking a 30% cut is also doing a lot for it's 30%.
However, after the fact you have decided the arrangement you both signed is not satisfactory and you sue the giant plate store:
- you want to open your own store within the giant plate store
- you want to pay maximum of 5% instead of 30%
The giant plate store throws you off the premises and now you are locked in a legal battle.
Actually visa, at least,has a very sophisticated r and d division and they spend a lot of money on it. They also file a lot of patents every year.
a better argument is that apple’s 30 percent is not a payment processing fee.
I think it's more the case that the GIANT plate store refuses to handle your plates when your plate-making factory starts printing the: name, phone#, website and driving directions to your own store indelibly on the back of every plate.
Oh yeah, you're also printing a one-click-easy-order 2D barcode the customer can snap on their cellphone as they put the plate down and walk out the GIANT store's door.
OK, that analogy doesn't really make sense. Walmart is primarily a retailer. The iPhone is primarily a device I keep in my pocket that provides a mechanism to load third-party applications. And it sounds as though you are conflating first-party and third-party products.
Apple doesn’t say that.
They say “you can sell your plates cheaper at another store.”
They say “You can NOT print ’buy this instead for cheap at the store on Main Street’ on the plate”
They say “You can NOT walk into our store and stand in the corner selling your plates on your own”
Whats sad here is both loose!
Apple is slow in moving to their customers desires or miss it outright. Somethings they Get! A clean app store front for content (music, vids & books) as well as apps. I really don't want to have to sanitize my system daily of malware & spyware.
I do wish Apple would do more to curate their stores. I hate having to figure out which cut of a song is by recording date and cut ID. As well as organize apps better and stop posting look-alike's of older apps which are just fakes of the better app.
Apple did create a game store which floundered years ago. If I was Epic I would have tried to get Apple to restart it then they could have had a storefront that could have offered different payment options.
30% is not an unexpected margin, don't forget there is a lot of infrastructure here to build and to support, to add to it Apple pays the taxes each country demands as well.
Jumping to the bottom line I doubt Apple pulls more than 10% of profit after all of the costs.
Yeah, and if Apple allows side-loading and Epic keeps fighting, I will no longer be cheering them on. And IMO, their overall case will no longer hold much merit.
For now though, I'm very much on their side because side-loading isn't allowed.
Epic games should make their own phone and have their own EpicStore. They will get 100% profit. There, problem solved. Because it’s really easy to make a phone and App Store /s
Last edited:
ya that’s a load of BS. Epic does not care about anyone but their shareholders. Don’t fool yourself in to believing anything different. They are a business and want to make more money. Simple as that.
Apple owns the App Store and they make the rules. Simple as that. If you don’t like it don’t buy Apple products. If a developer doesn’t like it, then they don’t have to release their app on the AppStore.
Epic could just make their own phone and App Store. Then they can make whatever rules they want. It’s pretty easy to make a phone and an App Store.