Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store

[cmaier]

Definitely the unpopular opinion here but he has a point. For those who want change in iOS there’s nothing you can really do.

This is why Android exists, and other options previously existed. Some of them failed, because nobody wanted them. But if enough people truly don’t like their current choices, new options will arise.

More likely: people are happy, for now, with ios. And those that value “freedom” and not “privacy” or “security” are happy with android.

 

[ggibson913]

the only way to get  to change their greedy ways is to sue them in court. Fortnight is epic's sacrificial lamb to get the ball rolling.
This lawsuit isn't about epic getting a better cut in the app store but bringing to attention that the whole business model of the App Store is "illegal" and wrong. They're not suing just for them but also for the thousands of iOS developers who've been ripped off too.

How short our memories are. Prior to Apple and the App store you had to graduate college as a software developer and work for someone to develop software and you only got to develop software the company said you could. If you wanted to develop your own software, you had to buy expensive coding software, do your own marketing and selling making it virtually impossible to get your own ideas out there.

With the advent of the app store, you get the coding software free, a $99 developer fee per year is all that is required to put your software on the app store where millions will see and have access to it. A 30 percent cut is perfectly reasonable, Apple hosts and maintains the app store. Don't forget, only Apple produces and sells the iPhone, iOS is specific to only the iPhone. It is not monopolistic because you can purchase many Android phones and can side load tons of apps on them (which btw most people don't do, they use either the Google app store who also takes 30 percent or Amazon as nobody wants malware on their devices). A monopoly would be more like my cable company where I have exactly one choice for Internet provider, Apple sells exactly one type of Smart Phone with its own OS on it. Just because many people choose to buy it over any of the plethora of other smartphone choices doesn't make Apple a Monopoly.

 

[ArPe]

This is why Android exists, and other options previously existed. Some of them failed, because nobody wanted them. But if enough people truly don’t like their current choices, new options will arise.

More likely: people are happy, for now, with ios. And those that value “freedom” and not “privacy” or “security” are happy with android.

This is what Epic’s CEO wants to enable so that if your government has to ban Chinese (or any other country) spyware they won’t be able to ban it. Users will be able to install it and dealers around the world will be able to pre-install it on iPhones

Chinese-Made Smartphones Are Secretly Stealing Money From People Around The World

Preinstalled malware on low-cost Chinese phones has stolen data and money from some of the world's poorest people.

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[ggibson913]

Personally, the issue isn't 30% or 15% or whatever. That Apple doesn't even allow a developer to redirect their customers to their own website to complete their subscription is the most problematic. That developers can't even SAY that the subscription fee is 30% more because of Apple's fees is seriously problematic and unarguably anticompetitive. I believe this will irk the courts the most, and is probably their strongest argument.

You mean within the app right? You can have customers sign up on your website and use their login credentials to access the application. Many apps do so. How can you say it is anti-competitive when Android exists and charges the same?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Makes sense. Can't have a lawsuit without damages, but don't want to penalize their player base unjustly either.

If you don’t like the terms of service.... don’t sign the contract!

my bank would laugh if I walked in and said... hey, I don’t like the loan contract I signed for my house. I refuse to pay you the payment I agreed to when I signed the contract.

No, but they might offer to let you refinance. And you could always go to a different bank, too.

 

[newjerseydamo]

“We can weather the storm”

“please let us back in”

as much as I don’t care for either side, the hypocrisy sure is hilarious.

 

[bn-7bc]

the only way to get  to change their greedy ways is to sue them in court. Fortnight is epic's sacrificial lamb to get the ball rolling.
This lawsuit isn't about epic getting a better cut in the app store but bringing to attention that the whole business model of the App Store is "illegal" and wrong. They're not suing just for them but also for the thousands of iOS developers who've been ripped off too.

Oh boo fing hoo, apppke us so bad, give me a break, if you don’t lije a platforms rules stay off tgst pkatform and styp ceying ike a baby

 

[bn-7bc]

The last thing I want is to have to download the Microsoft store to put outlook on my phone, the play store to put chrome and gmail on my phone, the Citrix store to put Workspace on my phone, the Facebook store to put FB and Insta on my phone. Just like everything on PC requires a different store. And if Epic wins, the iPhone will be just like this.

Evry thing on pc requiers its iwn store? I think not, let’s see farming simulatot, citues skyline, ets2, mudrunner, several dovtail titles in the trainsim /train sim world francise ( + aboure a million other titles all on steam, that’s right one store, and your point was your statement, hmm I would say wrong, but I might be missing something

 

[Wildkraut]

lol How sick, mentally replace Groove, House and HouseMusic words in these lyrics with iOS, AppStore and approved Apps.
Fits to Apple.

Let there be AppStore, and in myyyyyy AppStore there is onlyyyyy approveeeed Apps.

This tune makes me see Apple Devs developing the AppStore, biting chicken heads off, and reviewers shaking their heads in the background while blocking apps.

#FreeFortnite

 

[cp1160]

The more I hear about Apple's behaviour under Captain Crook, the more embarrassed I am to own Apple products.

So if you were in charge of a $1.8 trillion dollar company that is facing pressure in every direction and you need to keep major shareholders happy, a large energized workforce happy, a large group of vendors happy, and much much more, you are certain you would be able to run the company and keep it doing well with adopting consistent policies that are in line with those of most other platforms. Are you being fair in any assessment of Tim Cook? Have you done 1/10,0000th of what he has done in countless other areas? You care about privacy? You want your data available freely everywhere? Nice cheap shot.

So be embarrassed, give your devices to those that need them due to financial issues, and buy Android, Microsoft, Linux and other systems running on devices. You're not going to hurt my feelings.

Let's see Linux is a an open environment. Anyone can run it. Enjoy playing all the first release top selling super popular games on the platform. At least you won't be embarrassed.

Get an Android phone. You can play Fortnite.

Wait..........seems like a huge chunk of their market is tied to Apple devices. 114 million users or more. Cant play the new season. I'd be embarrassed....that I mad an "EPIC" miscalculation" of the impact on users.

 

[LaFrentz]

Isn't the key question:
Can any company X which is manufacturing/developing a certain product DEMAND that a store / platform owned by company Y (retail / online / ...) HAVE TO sell the product under company Y's platform and make it available?

I would say no. Here Epic and Apple agreed to terms and now Epic doesn't like it anymore...
There are many platforms available for Epic (Windows, MacOS, Android)...

Move away Epic ... you already showed your developers which are using Unreal engine that you are not a company which in the end supports developers but rather would sacrifice all of them when you drown...

 

[ciociosan]

I’m a freelance developer of Fortnite weaponry, the most popular of which is a banana which when peeled kills all of your opponents in one slippery swoop. It costs $1 and I only accept payment in bitcoin. I demand that the court recognise my right to do this inside Epic’s game without giving them a penny, lest they be allowed to run a monopoly.

 

[xb2003]

Evry thing on pc requiers its iwn store? I think not, let’s see farming simulatot, citues skyline, ets2, mudrunner, several dovtail titles in the trainsim /train sim world francise ( + aboure a million other titles all on steam, that’s right one store, and your point was your statement, hmm I would say wrong, but I might be missing something

Was I exaggerating? Sure, a little. But my point remains. Steam, Epic Store, Origin, Uplay. Same way with professional applications, Creative Cloud, Native Instruments. You can’t download office without Teams forcing its way onto your computer. Is the App store a little monopolistic? Yeah probs. Is the solution to have the government force Apple to allow other equally as monopolistic companies free reign to destroy exactly many consumers love about the iPhone? I just don’t think so.

And keep in mind, this isn’t about 30%. 10% won’t make Epic happy. They want control over Apple, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft’s platforms.

 

[lederermc]

Just don’t understand how this is any different than any other platform they are on.

I think they can install the game on androids outside of Google's control.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Boo Hoo. They acted like idiots and now its backfired on them.

Zero sympathy.

Exactly and fully agree!

Now that Epic has realized that "By thy own hand" is 'likely to suffer irreparable harm', they're solely responsible for their actions.

I guess their executive team, lawyers and upper teams did NOT think Apple had the stones to call their bluff and stick to their guns.

I hope this continues to show THEM and others that blatantly and willingly by their choice to circumvent rules of a platform they chose to participate and accept the rules (legally) to, and drag the name of the platform in the mud taks some SERIOUS notes about all this.

They're deserving this financial loss because they caused it, themselves.

 

[D4vidrim]

Yeah, and if Apple allows side-loading and Epic keeps fighting, I will no longer be cheering them on. And IMO, their overall case will no longer hold much merit.

For now though, I'm very much on their side because side-loading isn't allowed.

Epic sued Google too, even if they can side load apps there, meaning they are pore interested in using Apple-Google’s app stores to get to the user for free, then using their own payment system just to be free to charge what they want, leaving Apple and Google with no money.

 

[Solomani]

The more I hear about Epic, the more I start to hate them.

Soon, Epic will change their name to "Epic Fail".

 

[lederermc]

Just a week after Apple terminated Epic Games' developer account, Epic has filed for a preliminary injunction that would both allow Fortnite back on the App Store and restore access to its developer account.

In the filing, Epic Games says it was willing to challenge Apple "because it was the right thing to do" and "it was better positioned than many other companies to weather the storm." Epic describes Apple as a "monopolist" who maintains its dominant position by "explicitly prohibiting any competitive entry" to both app distribution and in-app payment processing markets.

Epic mentions that it's "likely to suffer irreparable harm" if Fortnite is not made available on the App Store and that "the balance of harms tips strongly in Epic’s favor," citing that daily iOS active users have already declined by over 60% since the app's initial removal from the App Store.

Fortnite introduced a direct payment option in mid-August that skirted Apple's in-app purchase system by allowing payments directly to Epic Games. Apple shortly after pulled the app from the ‌App Store for disregarding App Store policies‌, which has lead to a lawsuit from Epic and a quickly escalating legal fight between the two companies.

Epic has refused to back down from the direct purchase option added to Fortnite, and Apple won't allow the app in the ‌App Store‌ while the direct payment option remains. Apple told Epic that it's ready to "welcome Fortnite back onto iOS" if Epic removes the direct payment option and returned to the status quo while the legal battle plays out in court, but Epic has refused.

The preliminary injunction was filed on Friday in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, and the hearing will take place on September 28.

Article Link: Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store

This Epic/Apple issue is sort of like (and completely different) from the IBM anti-trust issue from about 50 years ago. IBM invented the "Mainframe" computer that all business applications used. They had something like 99% of the market and only allowed IBM software to run on it. They were sued and lost because they did in fact have a monopoly position for "Mainframe" computers. Apple has only about 15% of the smart phone market - definitely not a monopoly. However, if the courts look at IOS as separate from the smartphone market then Apple does have a monopoly.

 

[pacalis]

The problem I see here is that Epic is essentially arguing that Apple has a monopoly on its own product. Yeah, all companies do. Epic has a monopoly on Fortnite. You can't buy Fortnite skins from anyone but Epic. It just doesn't make sense. If Apple had 95-99% of the smartphone market, (like Microsoft had of the computer OS market in the 90s), then ok, I can see a problem. But people can buy other smart phones.

Yes. Epic hasn't thought this through at all.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Epic controls the vbucks store Fortnite, 100% of the skins that are used and the game dynamics. Should others be allowed to sell vbucks for less if they can provide the service for cheaper? And should Epic be forced to open up their store so others can side load their own skins and bypass vbucks completely? And why not allow others to to add to the "Fortnite ecosystem" with their own software? Consumers currently don't have enough choice on automatic aiming, jumping height and hit points....

It's all so stupid. Their isn't a monopoly here, as far as I can tell, and more importantly there's no anti-competitive behavior from Apple.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Epic. Fail.

 

[Misuteri]

I agree with the people saying they don’t want 15 different apps/portals to get what they use. Reminds me of the early days of Xbox Live when EA was trying to be the exception to the rules.

I hate having an EA Store, Steam, Xbox and several other gateways on my PC. Would I like just one? Sure but controlled by who? Dell/Alienware, HP, Lenovo? Microsoft?

I mean iOS in all of its forms has one common thread, the same company made everything you’re using.

In the end Apple is going to modify or tier payments based upon volume/dollars. I honestly can’t see someone not successfully arguing monopoly or financial harm.

 

[TiggrToo]

How short our memories are. Prior to Apple and the App store you had to graduate college as a software developer and work for someone to develop software and you only got to develop software the company said you could.

OR you could use the various IDEs like Delphi or Visual Studio 6 and write applications and sell then as shareware.

Prior to that of course was the golden age of “home computers” where you could write applications in assembler and sell them on for folks to play on their Commodore 64’s, Vic 20, TRS-80’s, BBC Micros, Acorn Atoms, Sinclair ZX-80, 81 and Spectrum’s, Oric-1s, Dragon 32’s etc...

Now, those were the golden age of hobbyist programmers making money.

Most of them were not college graduates with a software development degree because such things didn’t really exist.

The world did exist before mobile - I was writing my first programs on the venerable Commodore Pet-2001 way back in the late 1970s and even then I was continuing the path others had forged before me.

 

[I7guy]

This Epic/Apple issue is sort of like (and completely different) from the IBM anti-trust issue from about 50 years ago. IBM invented the "Mainframe" computer that all business applications used. They had something like 99% of the market and only allowed IBM software to run on it. They were sued and lost because they did in fact have a monopoly position for "Mainframe" computers. Apple has only about 15% of the smart phone market - definitely not a monopoly. However, if the courts look at IOS as separate from the smartphone market then Apple does have a monopoly.

Did IBM have a monopoly on CICS or MVS? Also nobody is stopping people from loading an alternative o/s on iPhones, if they are clever enough to figure it out.

 

[BigMcGuire]

OR you could use the various IDEs like Delphi or Visual Studio 6 and write applications and sell then as shareware.

Prior to that of course was the golden age of “home computers” where you could write applications in assembler and sell them on for folks to play on their Commodore 64’s, Vic 20, TRS-80’s, BBC Micros, Acorn Atoms, Sinclair ZX-80, 81 and Soectrum, Oric-1s, Dragon 32’s etc...

Now, those were the golden age of hobbyist programmers making money.

Most of them were not college graduates with a software development degree because such things didn’t really exist.

The world did exist before mobile - I was writing my first programs on the venerable Commodore Pet-2001 way back in the late 1970s and even then I was continuing the path others had forged before me.

Wow... I grew up in my jr high days programming in Delphi 4 and Borland Builder C++. I remember those days very well - there was a world before mobile. I remember those Windows 3.11 shareware games. If you lucked out, some garage sales had disks that had collections of games. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[TiggrToo]

Wow... I grew up in my jr high days programming in Delphi 4 and Borland Builder C++. I remember those days very well - there was a world before mobile. I remember those Windows 3.11 shareware games. If you lucked out, some garage sales had disks that had collections of games. Thanks for the reminder.

Windows 3!?

I cut me professional hind teeth on MS-DOS 2.1 - just after MIcrosoft brought out a hierarchical file system. Still remember loading up Windows 1 for the first time trying to work out just what the point was with it, aside from playing Reversi!