Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store

[Xenc]

If there is a problem with the plates the giant plate store will take care of the issue no muss no fuss and if you want to return the plates you get your money back immediately. The giant plate store will also give you a detailed breakdown of your business in the plate store.

Seems the giant plate store, while taking a 30% cut is also doing a lot for it's 30%.

One important correction: When apps are refunded by the user, Apple does not return the money taken for tax purposes, or their 30%.

Each refund on the App Store charges the developer money they did not receive. People refunding apps “just because they can” are damaging the revenue of the developer.

 

[Johnny Jackhammer]

It’s amazing to see a bunch of Apple users (stockholders?) say they don’t want more competition in the marketplace (lower prices) and not appreciate an underdog taking the first steps towards combating monopolistic behavior. There were recent congressional hearings.

Read or Watch “Capital in the Twenty-First Century”. It will help open your eyes.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Actually visa, at least,has a very sophisticated r and d division and they spend a lot of money on it. They also file a lot of patents every year.

a better argument is that apple’s 30 percent is not a payment processing fee.

In a letter to Epic, Apple mentions a few of the things the 30% pays for besides a payment system: APIs, libraries, compilers, development tools, testing, interface libraries, simulators, security features, developer services and cloud services.

Apple continues: “The App Store is not a public utility. Epic appears to want a rent-free store within the trusted App Store that Apple has built. Epic wants “equal access” to Apple’s operating system and “seamless” interaction between your store and iOS, without recognizing that the seamlessness of the Apple experience is built on Apple’s ingenuity, innovation, and investment. Epic wants access to all of the Apple-provided tools like Metal, ARKit and other technologies and features. But you don’t want to pay. In fact you want to take those technologies and then charge others for access.”

 

[5aga]

Fortnite is dying anyway. All the kids are playing Fall Guys now

 

[TiggrToo]

nothing or not just wait and see .what both of them playing.

Really don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.

 

[I7guy]

It’s amazing to see a bunch of Apple users (stockholders?) say they don’t want more competition in the marketplace (lower prices) and not appreciate an underdog taking the first steps towards combating monopolistic behavior. There were recent congressional hearings.

Read or Watch “Capital in the Twenty-First Century”. It will help open your eyes.

I'll take my chances with the free market prevailing.

 

[TiggrToo]

and not appreciate an underdog

Epic is far and away from being “an underdog”.

And luckily for us we have already seen the results of “increased competition”: Google has competition - there are multiple app stores available on that platform.

How’s that working out there?

BTW - I own exactly 0 Apple shares. My skin in the game is maintaining the system security that brought me to Apple from Android.

 

[Spectrum]

the only way to get  to change their greedy ways is to sue them in court. Fortnight is epic's sacrificial lamb to get the ball rolling.
This lawsuit isn't about epic getting a better cut in the app store but bringing to attention that the whole business model of the App Store is "illegal" and wrong. They're not suing just for them but also for the thousands of iOS developers who've been ripped off too.

Who is being ripped off? If I wanted to develop an App, it only costs me a paltry $100 and I get access to worldwide distribution at zero upfront cost. That is *AMAZING*.

 

[mk_in_mke]

On one side, we have a company, Apple, who created an ecosystem with a couple simple goals in mind: Sell more hardware, Generate revenue, Provide a somehow seamless user experience, Get rid as much as they can of the bloatware, bugs, viruses (curation), use the iPhone as an entry point into "everything Apple." Whether we like it or not, this is their business model and it has been very successful

Apple proposed all developers a framework and a conduit to sell their apps where the platform is safe and offer developers some opportunities to reduce costs (after all the developers do not need to have a sales force, reduced marketing costs, simple distribution channel, fast to market...) Apple proposed this business model and many many developers AGREED UPON TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

On the other side you have another company Epic who has largely benefitted from the ecosystem and now tries to be greedier and basically refuse to abide by the terms they agreed upon.

This is a free market after all, Epic: develop your own market and your own ecosystem... Apple has pretty rigid rules when it comes to user experience as they do not want to ruin both their reputation and the aura the iPhone has. In trying to maximize their profit in the most ridiculous manner, Epic leadership has shown their lack of substance and business acumen in jeopardizing their entire business.

 

[Corsig]

So within the so far 13 pages of comments here it looks like most people feel Epic is wrong. Is that an indicator of the masses or slanted cause were on an Apple news site??

 

[PickUrPoison]

It’s amazing to see a bunch of Apple users (stockholders?) say they don’t want more competition in the marketplace (lower prices) and not appreciate an underdog taking the first steps towards combating monopolistic behavior. There were recent congressional hearings.

Epic would have nowhere near the blowback they’re getting if they had simply filed suit without the PR war.

But blaming Apple for fortnite’s removal, when everyone knows Epic brought that on themselves, was a little much for many to swallow. Including many fortnite players.

 

[TiggrToo]

slanted cause were on an Apple news site??

Hardly - there’s been a large number of Pro-Epic folk posting here on previous threads.

 

[mk_in_mke]

Personally, the issue isn't 30% or 15% or whatever. That Apple doesn't even allow a developer to redirect their customers to their own website to complete their subscription is the most problematic. That developers can't even SAY that the subscription fee is 30% more because of Apple's fees is seriously problematic and unarguably anticompetitive. I believe this will irk the courts the most, and is probably their strongest argument.

I see problem with your statement. Apple has intellectual property and patents on the iOS devices. Epic benefit from the ecosystem and platform Apple has created AND maintains. the X% Apple cut is entirely justified by the business model. There is nothing different here than if someone invented something and another party benefitted from it: they would pay royalties, fees, rights to use... This is what Apple does and most importantly what Epic AGREED UPON

 

[spazzcat]

Comment section full of people who have their entire life savings in Apple stock desperately trying to justify Apple's anti-competitive behaviour.

How is doing what everyone in the industry is doing anti-competivie and they created the app store, have been following the same basic rules the whole time, what laws are they breaking?

 

[dwaltwhit]

Company enters into contract. Company makes gazzilion dollars. Company doesn’t like contract anymore. Company breaks contract intentionally. Company receives reprecussions.

Regardless of their objections, and I’m not sure I disagree with them, you can’t just break a contract and whine about the consequences. They should have terminated the contract before launching their PR campaign and filing suit.

 

[Plutonius]

BTW - I own exactly 0 Apple shares.

You probably own Apple indirectly if you have a future pension or invest in a 401K, IRAs, or mutual funds.

 

[citysnaps]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Wah...

 

[cmaier]

So within the so far 13 pages of comments here it looks like most people feel Epic is wrong. Is that an indicator of the masses or slanted cause were on an Apple news site??

The majority of posts here on any other topic are actually pretty anti-Apple. I’m actually shocked that the macrumors forums audience is mostly not on epic’s side here.

 

[Plutonius]

So within the so far 13 pages of comments here it looks like most people feel Epic is wrong. Is that an indicator of the masses or slanted cause were on an Apple news site??

A little of both.

I also think that many people here don't necessarily disagree with Epic's stand on the 30%.

However, I think that most people seem to disagree with Epic's actions.

 

[Logamaniac]

Just a week after Apple terminated Epic Games' developer account, Epic has filed for a preliminary injunction that would both allow Fortnite back on the App Store and restore access to its developer account.

In the filing, Epic Games says it was willing to challenge Apple "because it was the right thing to do" and "it was better positioned than many other companies to weather the storm." Epic describes Apple as a "monopolist" who maintains its dominant position by "explicitly prohibiting any competitive entry" to both app distribution and in-app payment processing markets.

Epic mentions that it's "likely to suffer irreparable harm" if Fortnite is not made available on the App Store and that "the balance of harms tips strongly in Epic’s favor," citing that daily iOS active users have already declined by over 60% since the app's initial removal from the App Store.

Fortnite introduced a direct payment option in mid-August that skirted Apple's in-app purchase system by allowing payments directly to Epic Games. Apple shortly after pulled the app from the ‌App Store for disregarding App Store policies‌, which has lead to a lawsuit from Epic and a quickly escalating legal fight between the two companies.

Epic has refused to back down from the direct purchase option added to Fortnite, and Apple won't allow the app in the ‌App Store‌ while the direct payment option remains. Apple told Epic that it's ready to "welcome Fortnite back onto iOS" if Epic removes the direct payment option and returned to the status quo while the legal battle plays out in court, but Epic has refused.

The preliminary injunction was filed on Friday in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, and the hearing will take place on September 28.

Article Link: Epic Games Asks Court to Allow Fortnite Back on the App Store

it seems like if epic wants a larger cut they should introduce a subscription plan that nets a user a certain amount of their currency in a month and if someone wants to buy more than their monthly allotment they’d be in contract for however long the subscription would be to cover that amount at whatever the rate they chose was.
It would at least cut the 30% down to whatever Apple charges for recurring subscription charges.

 

[cmaier]

it seems like if epic wants a larger cut they should introduce a subscription plan that nets a user a certain amount of their currency in a month and if someone wants to buy more than their monthly allotment they’d be in contract for however long the subscription would be to cover that amount at whatever the rate they chose was.
It would at least cut the 30% down to whatever Apple charges for recurring subscription charges.

15% After the first year.

 

[Ubuntu]

What flavor was the Kool-Aid?

Definitely the unpopular opinion here but he has a point. For those who want change in iOS there’s nothing you can really do. Do I think Epic brought this on themselves? 100%! But it’s the best shot we have at getting any form of change in the app distribution model of iOS. Competition would be good here.

 

[t76turbo]

There is absolutely a discussion to have about Apple having unfair developer practices, where big companies get way more leeway than smaller developers. Also, there’s a conversation to have about the fact that the App Store is the only distribution platform on the iPhone.
This, however, should not be a discussion. Epic games purposely went against apples rules, hoping that Apple would give them special treatment. And then, when Apple didn’t give them special treatment, and removed their app from the App Store, they went to the courts crying wolf, despite the fact that Google did the exact same thing.
And now, just two weeks after they said they would never go back on the App Store, they want the court to force Apple to let them back in to the App Store because they’re losing money.
This entire situation is completely stupid, especially on Epics part.
They got themselves into this mess, and now they want the court two just shovel them out of it so they can continue raking in the cash.
I’m sorry, Apple does a lot of shady things, and 30% might be slightly more than I would be comfortable with them taking, but I am not a developer, and I do not run an App Store, so I really can’t have a valid opinion on this. But in this situation, Apple is completely in the right. Epic completely screwed themselves in the situation.
You could call it a... epic fail

I agree with the vast majority of what you said except the first sentence. IF you are saying it is 'unfair developer practices' to create an app store, set a commission you are comfortable with, and allow people to make a voluntary decision whether to put their app on it or not.... Then I have to disagree.

You shouldnt be forced by courts or otherwise to change your pricing to make it better financially for others. If developers raise their prices to account for the commissions Apple charges and people stop buying apps, then apple will get the hint and have to do something.

the only way to get  to change their greedy ways is to sue them in court. Fortnight is epic's sacrificial lamb to get the ball rolling.
This lawsuit isn't about epic getting a better cut in the app store but bringing to attention that the whole business model of the App Store is "illegal" and wrong. They're not suing just for them but also for the thousands of iOS developers who've been ripped off too.

So if YOU create a platform for others to sell a widget and you get a commission to allow people to do so, you would be ok letting those customers demand you to lower your cut and when you said no, you would be ok with those customers suing you to force you to lower it??? People can choose to participate or not. They are not forced to put their app on the ios app store. Yes, loosing out on the ios platform would be a big hit. But you arent forced to put the app there.

 

[ZzapDK]

the only way to get  to change their greedy ways is to sue them in court

Still, can't be too bad since you're using an Apple device...

 

[SevenSeas]

I really don’t see how epic made a good case here.