Epic Games, Spotify, and Tile Form 'Coalition for App Fairness' to 'Fight Back' Against Apple

[Analog Kid]

Rethinking my Spotify monthly fee.
If they want to join with Epic File whiners then so be it.

Never thought I would prefer a streaming music service over owning CDs etc but I have. So next step is to choose a streaming service. Picked Spotify to start with to spread my monthly payments and it was the largest. But with this behavior, perhaps time to give something else a whirl.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised they threw in with this lot for exactly that reason. I think Spotify has the most legitimate reasons to keep a wary eye on Apple, but to consort with whiners and fools and sign off on a page full of misinformation leaves lingering doubts about any future arguments they might present.

 

[McG2k1]

I just plain don’t like the argument that everyone else is doing it too so it must be ok for Apple to do it. Imagine the outrage of Ford took 30% of every dollar for the gas you put in your car or 30% of the money you spend on groceries cause you went to get them in your car. After all Ford invented the car right? So why shouldn’t they get to do that? The answer is obviously that they shouldn’t, and Ford doesn’t need to have that explained to them.

That rate would put gas stations and grocery stores out of business. It’s sad to think of the amazing content and services we’re not seeing because these companies are being incredibly ****** gate keepers on the hardware required.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

According to most commenters on this thread - yes

In the beginning, there was no need for a store because the only apps you had access to was Apple’s. Developers were like “NAH WE WANT IN!” totally expecting 50% or higher cut as was normal for mobile devices.

Maybe Apple should start selling App Store servers. That way these companies can buy the server, the software and the payment gateway but still be connected to the App Store. Then all the company would have to pay for is the internet, the bandwidth and the staff to maintain the system. If the system goes down it would be up to the individual software company to manage it. Then maybe they will see how much work goes into the App Store.

Oh but wait, these companies are making billions and want everything for free.

I think it COULD end up with Apple defining a reference platform that excludes the Secure Enclave and other Apple proprietary security bits, while still providing the infrastructure. Customers would buy the system with no OS, no AppStore, and it would be up to the user to seek out and download the OS, App Store and security software of their choosing.

That way, ALLLLL the folks that SO want in to Apple’s Hardware for whatever reason can have that and it’ll be as open, actually MORE open than Android, depending on the OS vendor you choose. Then Epic could just tell their customers to download the Epicphone OS and install the EpicApp Store and there you go!

 

[Vulkan]

View attachment 958603

Also, for what it's worth...

*Apple announces Apple One*

Me, to my wife: Sooo random question, but how married are you to Spotify in particu–

Her: We're not getting Apple Music.

Me: This new bundle is a great deal since we're already paying fo–

Her: Buy it yourself if you want it.

In my house, I simply go to the router, and create a rule to block Spotify, or just lower the speeds to 2400bps and blame, the sunspots of the sun and the earth inclination towards this time of the year for issues outside of my control. Problem solved.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Imagine the outrage of Ford took 30% of every dollar for the gas you put in your car or 30% of the money you spend on groceries cause you went to get them in your car. After all Ford invented the car right?

Here’s the thing, though, if Ford did that AND was able to get away with it because everyone agreed that was fair and normal to price it that way, then that’s it. Doesn’t matter how mad you get about it or unfair it is, that’s the way it is. You can always buy some other vehicle or mode of transportation. And if Ford was the ONLY transportation? Then you’re going to be stuck being mad a WHOLE lot of the time more than likely.

 

[I7guy]

I think that adding the ability to easily download apps from the open internet, the way most people get apps on macOS and Windows, will eliminate a lot of the trash.

App Stores are what have lead to the huge piles of trash apps. Distributing your own app via your own website requires a certain set of skills and passion. This inherently leads to rather high quality software.

App Stores eliminate the need to have skills or passion. They made it much easier to just distribute garbage. App Stores also make it easy to get paid. This gives people a carrot to go and make the trash.

Ease of getting paid was definitely a plus. The increase in desire and ability to distribute trash was a massive negative. As consumers come to know that all the best apps come from the internet and only trash is on the App Store, the number of shoppers on the App Store will decline, and people will stop putting their trash there. Then it'll resemble the macOS App Store... pretty empty. Some good stuff, some trash, and largely nobody will care because everyone will just download whatever they want elsewhere.

The other side of this is that what you are postulating the very opposite could happen. I definitely dont believe there is a correlation between the ability to run a website and how good an app is.

I believe if apple is ”forced” to open the App Store it would increase the amount of trash apps.

Ah well, hypotheses only if and when a change is forced.

 

[Glideslope]

Because one unites hippocratic Hippocrates and the other unites hypocritical Hippocrates?

One could be drawn to such an assumption if motivated to do so. One could see the “Non Profit Lobby Foundation” founded as a rejection of current business views. While also evaluating the mental stability of the the members in their futile attempt to dislodge Zeus from his thrown.

In any event, it’s a non event. Forming a Non Profit Lobbying Group to change Apple is bringing a pocket knife to a gun fight.

I’ll go back to my popcorn now.

 

[Zellio]

I just plain don’t like the argument that everyone else is doing it too so it must be ok for Apple to do it. Imagine the outrage of Ford took 30% of every dollar for the gas you put in your car or 30% of the money you spend on groceries cause you went to get them in your car. After all Ford invented the car right? So why shouldn’t they get to do that? The answer is obviously that they shouldn’t, and Ford doesn’t need to have that explained to them.

That rate would put gas stations and grocery stores out of business. It’s sad to think of the amazing content and services we’re not seeing because these companies are being incredibly ****** gate keepers on the hardware required.

Can you guys literally stop with this argument and make one that is coherent? If you wanna argue against the 30% do it but stop comparing different business models! Apples is the same as a department stores business model which is to subsidize for how much it costs to run the store. Car prices are up front and if you look at the prices of used cars you literally pay twice as much as the car is worth. No kidding, your car loses half the value the moment you buy it.

And speaking of groceries, Walmart and grocery stores also take a large cut of what sits on shelves. YES, THE THING YOU ARGUE ABOUT RIGHT NOW HAS HAPPENED TO FARMERS, ELECTRONICS MANUFACTURERS, AND ANYONE ELSE SELLING THINGS AT WALMART AND OTHER STORES FOR YEARS. Literally learn business before posting please

 

[WristyManchego]

people are still dying of hunger in the world, yeah?

just wanted to check because these companies seem to assume we have a lot less to worry about.

 

[ulyssesric]

Companies that will NEVER see another penny from my pocket.

TBH, I’ve never heard of more than half of companies in this list.

 

[groove-agent]

What a joke. These companies are so transparent it makes me laugh. I love how they're playing the martyr/ victim, but really they're just trying to get a bigger slice of the pie. I'm pretty sure these are the same rules they had when they started selling their wares on the App Store, and they were fine with that back then.

I don't see how it's a monopoly when they can still peddle their apps on Android or in the case of Spotify, play via the web.

 

[patent10021]

The word "coalition" is used by corporations that have agendas to push. They target demographics that are not critical thinkers which is about 90%. And probably 99% for Top 40 music fans and video game junkies. Basically these companies are in reality, saying that anyone who sides with them are naive and ignorant consumers.

A coalition supporting Steven Biko makes sense. A coalition for video game, music and bluetooth companies is laughable.

 

[Abazigal]

I think it’s saying something when Macrumours, a place where the majority of commenters are typically critical of Apple, are now strongly in support of Apple.

For once, we are united on a common issue, and while it’s not going to last, I am going to savour this moment for as long as I can.

 

[germinator]

Exactly, Apple has spent BILLIONS and many years developing and producing an Eco system that is safe, secure and comprehensive.

Apart from the questionable claims about safety and being comprehensive...
How much money Apple spent on this is completely irrelevant.
If we didn't live in a corrupt country, principles like this would be legislated.

 

[Shirasaki]

It seems that in USA, a business can literally do anything they want as long as the money is down the line, including hurting customers in the process. I have no sympathy to both Apple and all companies listed in that coalition and I just treat it as a bunch of young adults fist fighting each other for purposes unknown.

Good luck for this mess to pan out. I’m sure some participants won’t be happy about what is going to happen after the whole mess is clear.

 

[MythicFrost]

Let me eat my cake and have it too, you bully!

 

[falainber]

Can you guys literally stop with this argument and make one that is coherent? If you wanna argue against the 30% do it but stop comparing different business models! Apples is the same as a department stores business model which is to subsidize for how much it costs to run the store. Car prices are up front and if you look at the prices of used cars you literally pay twice as much as the car is worth. No kidding, your car loses half the value the moment you buy it.

And speaking of groceries, Walmart and grocery stores also take a large cut of what sits on shelves. YES, THE THING YOU ARGUE ABOUT RIGHT NOW HAS HAPPENED TO FARMERS, ELECTRONICS MANUFACTURERS, AND ANYONE ELSE SELLING THINGS AT WALMART AND OTHER STORES FOR YEARS. Literally learn business before posting please

Flawed logic. If the producer wants to sell something to John Smith and does not like Walmart fees it can sell the same product to John via Target. It's called market. On the other hand, if app developer wants to sell an app to John, who happen to own an iPhone, what are the developer options? App Store is the only one, which makes it a monopoly.

 

[Schranke]

Microsoft takes 5% on the non exclusive windows store. Game stations are another topic - these sell in quantities and prices that make a high cut of every title sold necessary.

I did purposely not mention the windows store as it is the same as apple's App Store on MacOS, but with the lower percentage. MacOS is not gardened and you are perfectly able to buy and install from 3rd party.

So what you are getting at is that the quantity and price is a factor in which the percentage is based on, apple should just lower their prices and then it will be ok? or if the iPhone wasn't popular it would also be ok? in one of the cases I think we would see even more pushback from developers as they are now paying 30% from a bigger user base, money I guarantee you they would rather have themself then subsidising apple. In the other scenario developers might not even focus iOS as a platform due to low quantity of users...

 

[Schranke]

I'm pretty sure you will find that they definitely have their eyes on all of them, but are starting with Apple, and if they can win that one, the rest will be easy. Apple is the big bad giant at the moment, so in a way, the easiest target to start with.

Then I think they should show their intent, just singling out one company makes them look like a bully (in my eyes, might not be so for the average consumer who does not consider all the companies who does the same)

 

[alee_82]

I have been a long time lurker but decided to finally create an account since I am worried this may get out of hand.
I created a petition of sorts.. for the likeminded who want to keep Apple's iOS platform at least closed and secure.
I'm not sure if I can post links but if you search Change.org for AppleForUsers thats my petition just as a platform to show that consumers like myself are in no way supporting the changes that Epic and the Coalition are asking for.

 

[aus_ruskau]

Blatant attempt by the companies in this “coalition” to maximise their own profits. None of it is to do with consumer choice. What about consumers like me that actually want the protections and controls provided by the App Store? Where is our choice to keep our private and financial data away from developers and purchase apps that have been vetted to meet minimum standards and are free of secret data capture and other nasty things? Time to finally do away with Spotify and switch to Apple Music!

 

[johnnytravels]

Blatant attempt by the companies in this “coalition” to maximise their own profits. None of it is to do with consumer choice. What about consumers like me that actually want the protections and controls provided by the App Store? Where is our choice to keep our private and financial data away from developers and purchase apps that have been vetted to meet minimum standards and are free of secret data capture and other nasty things? Time to finally do away with Spotify and switch to Apple Music!

Do not allow software from third party sources. Your choice..

 

[PickUrPoison]

Apart from the questionable claims about safety and being comprehensive...
How much money Apple spent on this is completely irrelevant.
If we didn't live in a corrupt country, principles like this would be legislated.

You’re kidding, right?

Why on earth would you possibly think that Apple isn’t entitled to a return on the money they’ve invested to create the iOS ecosystem? They’re not a non-profit.

From the first “issue” of this new lobbying group, Epic tries to pretend the 30% “app tax”—everybody hates taxes right?—is a transaction fee, as if Apple demands 30% for swiping a customer’s credit card. Yes, the payment processing fee is included in the 15 or 30%, but that’s just a small part of what developers get for that revenue share.

In a letter to Epic, Apple mentions a few of the things the 30% pays for—all of which Epic feels they are entitled to for free—besides a secure, customer-trusted payment system, and app hosting: APIs, libraries, compilers, development tools, testing, interface libraries, simulators, security features, developer services and cloud services.

Apple continues: “The App Store is not a public utility. Epic appears to want a rent-free store within the trusted App Store that Apple has built. Epic wants “equal access” to Apple’s operating system and “seamless” interaction between your store and iOS, without recognizing that the seamlessness of the Apple experience is built on Apple’s ingenuity, innovation, and investment. Epic wants access to all of the Apple-provided tools like Metal, ARKit and other technologies and features. But you don’t want to pay. In fact you want to take those technologies and then charge others for access.”

Monday can’t come soon enough.

 

[SharkeyStormcrow]

View attachment 958603

Also, for what it's worth...

*Apple announces Apple One*

Me, to my wife: Sooo random question, but how married are you to Spotify in particu–

Her: We're not getting Apple Music.

Me: This new bundle is a great deal since we're already paying fo–

Her: Buy it yourself if you want it.

Grounds for divorce, mate.

 

[recoil80]

Well, not Spotify for sure, it's still the one leading the streaming music race.

And I think it offers a better user experience compared to Apple Music.
Of course, the bundle will convince many customers to cancel Spotify and listen to Apple Music.
To really compete, Spotify needs to be part of a similar deal.
Think about a bundle with Spotify, Netflix and some Cloud storage, I bet the majority of customers would pay for that instead of Music and TV+
The only real advantage is iCloud is integrated into iOS, so another cloud service wouldn't work the same way but most people only need to save their pictures and you can do it with third party services.