Well it kind of is hence why we are now seeing certain types of legislation against them in all different countries
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Those are two unit data points Stuwil, not math .. and certainly not math that supports an assertion that a 12% fee would make Apple profitable. To support that claim the math needs to go well beyond units. And even then, this is a free market so you and I don’t get to dictate what level of profit is fair for any provider our only entitlement is to choose whether to buy and who to buy from.
So your attitude is if a developer doesn’t like Apple’s terms & conditions then they are free to leave and you wonder why governments and courts are legislating them to make changes because if that is certain people’s attitude then no wonder this is happening to them
but selling 1,106 million devices not iPads included suggests other wise compared with 71 million sales heretiq
Now maybe I’m a member of Mensa but based on these numbers then Apple can easily run a profit at 12% commission
If it’s a free market as you claim then why is Apple consistently getting regulated by different governments & courts
If there is no issues
My attitude is that the products we are discussing are unregulated, free market offerings with competing alternatives, and buyers and developers are free to choose the alternative that works for us. However, developers and buyers do not get to set the terms of sale or to try to circumvent them after agreeing to them. If the courts find grounds for regulating producers then the courts will do their duty as they should. But note that none of the pending court actions that I’m aware of are related to pricing, the US action is regarding the right to use alternate payment mechanisms (though the latest California ruling muddies the waters leading to fee-based speculation which is likely to be clarified on appeal), and the EU actions are related to the platforms achieving gatekeeper status.
They are free to leave. Apple didn't force their way to the level they are at. We all had many options and the two that remain are what people picked. Apple did not change the rules to create this situation. So why should they be forced to change to fix it? They didn't break it.
What you want is more options, but no one else wants to setup and create a 3rd way. Governments don't like the concentration of this business being with only 2 options. But, they can't force anything new to exist. Only try to create legal barriers or fines, or force open a business model.
The EU has no internal options to compete. So they are going to beat up both Google and Apple. I personally don't find it fair to do this. But here we are.
However your argument falls apart
Because in the mobile space you have only two choices iOS & android
So that essentially means if you don’t dance to Apple’s tune then you only have android for your app.
Hence why certain people might not like it but that is why you are now seeing this type of regulation that Apple is facing
That’s not the reason why. It’s about Apple having control and its customers don’t have an issue with it but politicians go into overreach mode.
Google (Play Store) Sony (PS Store), Nintendo (eShop), Microsoft (Xbox Store), Valve (Steam), Meta (Quest Store), Samsung (Galaxy Store)
Sony, Nintendo, google. Every brick and mortar stores charged the same back in the day. Can you name names where this isn’t true? Aside from epic?
The unit numbers alone are not a sufficient indicator of profitability Stuwil. Device profitability is determined by the device price minus the device cost. And Apple’s average iPhone gross margin is estimated at 55-60% — with Apple making about $500 profit per iPhone sold. I think many assume that device profits are sufficient to offset the ongoing operating cost of the App Store. If Apple (or Google, Microsoft, Ford or any manufacturer) ran their business this way, they would quickly go out of business.
For example if the marginal cost of an app download is $0.10 (ten cents) and the average download to purchase rate is 2%, then an app would incur $10 of cost for 100 downloads, with only 2 of those downloads generating revenue. If the app sells for $1, then that app would have generated $0.30 (30 cents) of revenue to Apple but cost them $10 in App Store infrastructure cost for a net loss of ($9.70) — negative profit.
If a user downloaded 100 apps each month that $500 device profit would be gone in 50 months and that device would continue to generate negative profits for its remaining life. Of course this is a hypothetical example because I don’t know Apple’s costs, but the dynamics are representative and hopefully the example gets the point across.
Because of these factors, Apple and other manufacturers manage device profit and loss separately from services and price each to be independently self-sustaining. That’s why the App Store has a separate fee. And when you look at everything Apple provides for that 15/30% of revenue cut it’s not only fair, but is a bargain for small developers who don’t have the skills or capital to build their own app distribution infrastructure.
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i wish i could understand the point you are trying to make....
and from ALL your posts with "a$$le" it's very clear where you stand...
"practically forced" LOL
"only one choice"...
geez.
Even Google have terms and conditions for Android developers. They need to because if they let people code anything or maliciously damage hardware we all know who is going to get sued.
you can choose to write code or not write code.
find a different career if you feel so trapped.
Well djphat2000
Let’s try & unpick your points
Currently there are only 2 options available in the west for mobile & that is consequence of how Apple & google squeezing the competition out with business practices to assert their dominance that is why for example both companies ultimately pretend they don’t exist until they is legal challenges.
It’s funny how there is only competition for iOS and android in one part of the world
Just because I don’t agree with everything that a particular company does doesn’t mean I don’t buy a product by a company
Well this is an easy one the reason why for example the EU are beating up on Apple & google is because they have made it impossible for a new company to emerge because of how the mobile market is setup so that is why both are getting regulated
"practically forced" LOL
"only one choice"...
geez.
Even Google have terms and conditions for Android developers. They need to because if they let people code anything or maliciously damage hardware we all know who is going to get sued.
you can choose to write code or not write code.
find a different career if you feel so trapped.
Yeah this completely ignores the realities of running large businesses, particularly in tech, and the power that Apple and Google hold over them.
Regulators won't swallow this argument, we have already seen that.
no.
you bought a device knowing what you can install on it and how.
you know that.
otherwise return the device for a refund.
developers rely on Apple tools and platform. and brand reputation.
AND phone users agree to a series of agreements as well when they click ACCEPT.
but you know all of this.
ok I’m all ears wbeasley"practically forced" LOL
"only one choice"...
geez.
Even Google have terms and conditions for Android developers. They need to because if they let people code anything or maliciously damage hardware we all know who is going to get sued.
you can choose to write code or not write code.
find a different career if you feel so trapped.
How many choices in mobile OS’s have you got if you can’t be on iOS in the west
Your being disingenuous there because you know that there is a difference between androids terms & conditions
And apple’s
Why would developers feel trapped when governments & courts are legislating changes to iOS and android
Because of lack of competition that they both have created themselves
Stuwill (using the same passive agressive tone you seem to think works to assist your arguements...)
the point you are clearly missing is there are Terms and Conditions on pretty much everything these days.
buy a toaster and the Warranty certificate gives you rights BUT also lists a whole series of events you agree to not do.
"Don't immerse in water".
Apart from being dangerous, you are agreeing that you read and accepted that condition so you wont sue them should you decide to throw it in the bathtub.
No developer is trapped.
They dont need to develop apps.
Find a different job. And good luck because an employee in any business signs away their rights with HR when they sign on and agree to certain unacceptable behaviours that can result in instant dismissal.
You don't like rules. full stop.
but society operates that way.
welcome to planet Earth. it's 2025.
I don’t see how any of this relates to my argument. How is the existence of only two options Apple’s fault? Are Apple responsible for the failure of others who attempted to build alternate mobile products and supporting infrastructure and did not succeed? And how will regulating Apple result in new platforms to change this reality? This logic implies that exceptional success is somehow a vice and the role of government is to punish such innovation and success in order to .. incentivize others to expend their life energies and investor capital to be similarly punished 🤔. I’m struggling to understand the logic.
perhaps all these poor app devs who dont like the duopoly of iOS and Android need to branch out...
go write code for Chinese or Russian state controlled devices.
those environments are so open and friendly to coders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_OS_(Russian_Open_mobile_platform) "OPEN" hahaha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS and more...
so there really isnt a duopoly even
Then why are Apple getting regulated by different governments then if Apple’s rules & regulations are fine and nothing wrong with them at all 🤔
Because in your opinion there is no issue
Sorry, I don't understand how it's possible that in 2025 we believe that a company is above the law. If there was written you accept to become a slave, would be a valid agreement? I don't think so... and this is what's happening...
You are happy to have less freedom, I hope to have more freedom...
Anyway, nobody has answered me yet about paying 30% more at the gas station...
Yes, I'm very proud to stay on the side of "more freedom..."i wish i could understand the point you are trying to make....
and from ALL your posts with "a$$le" it's very clear where you stand...
How can a new platform emerge in mobile in the west due to how the mobile market is setup
So that is why Apple & google are getting regulated by governments and courts
for well over a decade these devices have existed and users havent been demanding change.
governments doing what they are doing has nothing to do with the platform developers.
What Apple and Google do has been market driven.
if you dont like their products you dont have to buy them or upgrade them.
they are attractive money making platforms. and governments like to get taxes where they can.
governments also set road rules like speed limits and parking fines. I suppose all car manufacturers should be fined and controlled by governments for driver choices and behaviour...