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Epic Games Submits Fortnite to U.S. App Store

Stuwil said:
What so it’s not relevant
That one company has sold 71 million units since 2020 on hardware
And another has sold 1,106 million units
Since 2020 on hardware
Yet both sell hardware
And both have a digital store
And both have 30% commissions on digital sales purchased
That’s not fast and loose with Apple’s revenue
That’s just counting

that’s one of the reasons why I have no issue with epic back on the iOS App Store because it’s a legitimate point in that 12% is perfectly reasonable when you put it into context
Click to expand...
I’m not sure in any place where a company’s unit sales is used to determine any fee or commission. Can you provide one example of a for profit consumer oriented company in a non-regulated industry?

I’d be surprised if there were one example. Therefore my conclusion is you are playing fast and loose with money that is not yours ie apples revenue.
 
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PlayUltimate said:
I tend to agree with you that this will be the likely outcome. It’s sad though that it might go this way. Many apps are free and charge nothing; giving an opportunity for new developers to practice and learn at little cost ($99 is almost no cost).
Further, too many people are saying that Apple is ‘greedy’ due to the 30% consignment fee. What should the fee be? What would fair ?
Click to expand...
It's not about 0% 10% 30% or any other value. It's about being forced to give money to a$$le when the transaction doesn't include it.

Imagine you go to a gas station and you have to pay 50$ plus a 30% extra to Ford because you have to cover the development cost of your car. Would you accept?
 
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Stuwil said:
it’s not about cheaper prices for Spotify for example
It’s more likely this by offering a payment link they then can offer a customer a free promotion and then that is designed to hook the customer in if they like the product and now they can offer that within the iOS app
In the USA iOS App Store

The difference is this can all be done within every iOS app going forward
That is why Apple doesn’t want it because it will hurt IAP
Click to expand...
I hope that the current cost will be the same outside and in the a$$le store the cost will increase by 30% so users will be pushed outside the store.
 
wbeasley said:
And tech people, if they really want to download whatever, are savvy enough to know Apple devices dont make that easy and that Android devices exist if thats what they really want.

I dont like my Hisense projector having a SPDIF port but wont output audio to is and the HDMI port at the same time.
Every other TV I've used does allow this. But I can only ask them to restore this functionality. I cant demand it. Sometimes that's just life. ;)
Click to expand...
But if you feel you should demand you can fill a claim for a trial in a court. Maybe you are right. Isn't that if it is written by a$$le is correct ...
 
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It's taking a long time to approve this.

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surferfb said:
You’re missing my point. I don’t think the number of units sold matters to commission rate matters for any reason other than “because you say so”.

It’s a fake distinction that Sweeney invented to justify his hypocrisy. I think the better argument is the platforms with more users deserve higher commission, because they’re attracting a much bigger pool of potential customers.
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if it’s a fake distinction that Tim Sweeney invented as you say
Then can I buy a PS6 right now because I would like to buy one to replace my PS5 I bought in 2020
Because you can buy an iPhone 16PM right now so unless you can buy a PS6 the now it’s not the same thing is it 🤔

yeah unit sales are relevant in this case because it’s profiteering because Apple & google are guaranteed your money compared with a console maker in that same time frame
 
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davide_eu said:
It's not about 0% 10% 30% or any other value. It's about being forced to give money to a$$le when the transaction doesn't include it.

Imagine you go to a gas station and you have to pay 50$ plus a 30% extra to Ford because you have to cover the development cost of your car. Would you accept?
Click to expand...
Nobody is forcing anybody to give money to Apple. A dev agrees to that voluntarily. Don’t like the terms find another business plan.
 
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I7guy said:
I’m not sure in any place where a company’s unit sales is used to determine any fee or commission. Can you provide one example of a for profit consumer oriented for profit company in a non-regulated industry?

I’d be surprised if there were one example. Therefore my conclusion is you are playing fast and loose with money that is not yours ie apples revenue.
Click to expand...
Then don’t compare yourself to console makers when it’s a different business model completely to justify your 30% commission

What companies bring out new devices and new OS’s every year that is not mobile
That you carry about with you?
 
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I7guy said:
Nobody is forcing anybody to give money to Apple. A dev agrees to that voluntarily. Don’t like the terms find another business plan.
Click to expand...
Because there are only two choices in mobile in the west so developers are practically forced to accept Apple’s terms regardless because then said developer would only have one choice
 
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Stuwil said:
Because there are only two choices in mobile in the west so developers are practically forced to accept Apple’s terms regardless because then said developer would only have one choice
Click to expand...
There more than two if one has a robust business plan. Again if one doesn’t want to engage with Apple make sure your business plan is a good one.
 
Stuwil said:
Well it depends regarding the 30% fee
If we compare two companies
One company has sold 71 million units of a product since 2020 & takes a 30% cut for every product sold on their digital store

The other company has sold 1,106 million units since 2020 and takes a 30% cut in every digital transaction sold on their store
So do you think this company should be compared with the first & should the figure be much lower considering how many sales they have made?
Click to expand...

This is a gross over-simplification of a complex issue which leads to irrational conclusions for market-based, unregulated markets where pricing is value-based. Do the math on how much it would cost to replicate what Apple provides for a 15/30% cut of revenue and it becomes apparent that the revenue cut is not only fair, it’s a bargain for smaller developers which comprise the majority of the AppStore developer base.

Here’s some of what developers get for a 15/30% cut of revenue:

  • world-class development frameworks that unlock sophisticated app capabilities,
  • professional development tools, documentation, sample code and dev support,
  • access to and use of a secure, global distribution infrastructure,
  • easy access to a marketplace with hundreds of millions of buyers,
  • frictionless payment processing and billing lifecycle capabilities,
  • expertise to build and maintain the above,
  • minimized capital investment,
  • risk avoidance
The vast majority of iOS and Mac developers are incapable of and/or cannot afford to replace these enablers, and would not exist or will cease to exist without them. Many of those who are capable of doing this themselves would be hard pressed to do this for 15/30% of revenue. Epic like every developer is free to build their own alternate infrastructure because the iOS and macOS APIs are well documented and publicly accessible. Epic has chosen not to build their own and instead are attempting to gain free access to a market and app development ecosystem that they invested zero in creating — so they’re not entitled to dictating the terms of use of that platform. Apple gets to do that, and the 15/30% revenue fee is justified and fair exchange for what developers get.
 
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Stuwil said:
Then don’t compare yourself to console makers when it’s a different business model completely to justify your 30% commission

What companies bring out new devices and new OS’s every year that is not mobile
That you carry about with you?
Click to expand...
Perfectly valid comparison in terms of commissions on delivery of digital assets. Don’t like the commission don’t buy the product.

And posters shouldn’t make up arbitrary rules about fees and commissions.
 
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I7guy said:
There more than two if one has a robust business plan. Again if one doesn’t want to engage with Apple make sure your business plan is a good one.
Click to expand...
If you are a mobile app developer
Then your choices are iOS or android
So ultimately you have to accept Apple’s terms regardless because if you don’t then you are faced with one choice

that is why Apple are now seeing these type of issues
 
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Stuwil said:
If you are a mobile app developer
Then your choices are iOS or android
So ultimately you have to accept Apple’s terms regardless because if you don’t then you are faced with one choice

that is why Apple are now seeing these type of issues
Click to expand...
Then as a mobile developer your business plan stinks. You have to decide pick the distribution platforms that make sense to you. Web, Amazon, apps etc And there is more than two if you count all of the app stores. Do you think Netflix is limited to two?
 
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I7guy said:
Then as a mobile developer your business plan stinks. You have to decide pick the distribution platforms that make sense to you. Web, Amazon, apps etc And there is more than two if you count all of the app stores. Do you think Netflix is limited to two?
Click to expand...
Netflix is a streaming service I7GUY
If you are a mobile app developer then you only have two choices iOS or android in the west
If you don’t accept Apple’s terms regardless if they are good then you are left with one choice
That’s the point that certain developers have made
 
davide_eu said:
Once the phone is sold, the transaction is between the phone owner and the developer!
Click to expand...
Another gross oversimplification of a complex issue. If the developer is offering their product using an app development and distribution ecosystem provided by a 3rd party, then that transaction also involves that 3rd party — whether it is Apple, Google, Microsoft, or Sony — and that 3rd party has a say in how they recover value from the utility they provide.
 
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Stuwil said:
Netflix is a streaming service I7GUY
Click to expand...
That also provides a mobile app.
Stuwil said:
If you are a mobile app developer then you only have two choices iOS or android in the west
Click to expand...
Your business plan is faulty for delivery of digital goods.
Stuwil said:
If you don’t accept Apple’s terms regardless if they are good then you are left with one choice
That’s the point that certain developers have made
Click to expand...
Then the dev has a bad business plan. This is not an apple problem. Stuwill.
 
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