Epic Games Submits Fortnite to U.S. App Store

[Stuwil]

What they did was try to defraud Apple, even if the word defraud wasn’t used in the wiki

How did they defraud Apple
What did they actually do

 

[soundwarp]

i hope Apple refund Epic their $99 developer fee and we never hear about Epic again.

Apple cannot be forced to allow anyone in who has demonstrated bad behaviour.

It sends the message, play by the common rules of the Agreement or dont plan on releasing software on the AppStore.

Sales of Apple devices havent been hurt because the Epic app isnt there.
Or not enough to make Apple relent.

Apples lawyers already stated they are free to submit the app.

 

[surferfb]

How did they defraud Apple
What did they actually do

Copying and pasting from the wiki quoted above (emphasis mine):

As determined through the course of the trial, Epic initiated "Project Liberty" by first introducing a standard patch to Fortnite that had to be approved by Apple and Google, but which had secretly contained code that would allow users to be able to purchase the in-game currency, "V-Bucks", directly from Epic. Epic did not make mention of this feature to Apple or Google, so the patch was approved Then, on August 13, 2020, Epic released a hotfix (which did not require prior approval) to the mobile versions, triggering visibility of this purchasing option.
…

Judge Rogers also ruled against Epic, requiring them to pay Apple $3.6 million, 30% of the revenue that was withheld to Apple related to their attempts to bypass the App Store, and further stated that Epic did violate its contractual terms as a developer with Apple in how they deployed the update to Fortnite in August 2020 that instigated events, such that Apple may block Epic in the future from providing apps to the App Store.

 

[Stuwil]

Copying and pasting from the wiki quoted above (emphasis mine):

As determined through the course of the trial, Epic initiated "Project Liberty" by first introducing a standard patch to Fortnite that had to be approved by Apple and Google, but which had secretly contained code that would allow users to be able to purchase the in-game currency, "V-Bucks", directly from Epic. Epic did not make mention of this feature to Apple or Google, so the patch was approved Then, on August 13, 2020, Epic released a hotfix (which did not require prior approval) to the mobile versions, triggering visibility of this purchasing option.

…


Judge Rogers also ruled against Epic, requiring them to pay Apple $3.6 million, 30% of the revenue that was withheld to Apple related to their attempts to bypass the App Store, and further stated that Epic did violate its contractual terms as a developer with Apple in how they deployed the update to Fortnite in August 2020 that instigated events, such that Apple may block Epic in the future from providing apps to the App Store

Ok
But how did epic commit fraud?
Could you tell that they did something wrong?

 

[jz0309]

Ok
But how did epic commit fraud?
Could you tell that they did something wrong?

really? Did you actually read the post you are replying to?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

How are the following points even related: 🤔
(1) Google “by giving their OS away for free it then sidles their position as the dominant mobile OS & then deliberately makes it harder for a rival competitor to emerge & compete”,
(2) “That is why governments are then regulating Apple more compared with android”

So your point is that Google gives away their OS to stifle competition, so that prompts governments to regulate Apple more than Google?? This makes no sense, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. 🙏🏽

The government is regulating Google more. Apple just isn’t excluded.

Apple is at least not asked to divest in their own products

 

[jz0309]

Apples lawyers already stated they are free to submit the app.

and you are implying that would mean approval?
Think again

 

[Stuwil]

really? Did you actually read the post you are replying to?

i’m just asking if epic defrauded apple then how could you tell
Was it on display for everyone to see

 

[jz0309]

The government is regulating Google more. Apple just isn’t excluded.

Apple is at least not asked to divest in their own products

DOJ sued Google in Oct 2020, "won" in Apr 2025
DOJ sued Apple in Mar 2024 - not outcome yet, no hearing nor whatever afaik.

Don't compare those 2 ...

 

[surferfb]

Ok
But how did epic commit fraud?
Could you tell that they did something wrong?

Merriam Webster’s definition of “defraud” is:

to deprive of something by deception or fraud

As in “Epic withheld [deprived] Apple of $3.6 million [something] by secretly updating their app with code that bypassed the App Store for in-app purchases [deception].”

 

[jz0309]

i’m just asking if epic defrauded apple then how could you tell
Was it on display for everyone to see

what difference does that make? they did, were fined $3.6M and banned.

 

[Stuwil]

Merriam Webster’s definition of “defraud” is:


As in “Epic withheld [deprived] Apple of $3.6 million [something] by secretly updating their app with code that bypassed the App Store for in-app purchases [deception].”

No what I’m asking is could you tell if they defrauded apple
Was it on display for everyone to see

 

[surferfb]

No what I’m asking is could you tell if they defrauded apple
Was it on display for everyone to see

Apple’s rules were known, Epic willfully broke them through deceit (would Apple have approved the app update had it known that code was in there? Of course not). So yes. Which is why the judge ruled the way she did.

 

[Stuwil]

what difference does that make? they did, were fined $3.6M and banned.

so just so I get this correctly
Epic tried to defraud Apple by deliberately putting there fraud on display for the whole public to see
So who actually committed this fraud?

 

[Stuwil]

Apple’s rules were known, Epic willfully broke them through deceit (would Apple have approved the app update had it known that code was in there? Of course not). So yes. Which is why the judge ruled the way she did.

I’m asking if epic defrauded apple
Then who committed this fraud
If it was fraud?

 

[jz0309]

so just so I get this correctly
Epic tried to defraud Apple by deliberately putting there fraud on display for the whole public to see
So who actually committed this fraud?

Epic did not "try" - they did it.
Epic committed fraud, got caught and paid the price.

 

[surferfb]

I’m asking if epic defrauded apple
Then who committed this fraud
If it was fraud?

I don’t know how to explain it any better than I did two posts above.

Again, Marian-Webster defines “defraud” as: “to deprive of something by deception or fraud.”

To try it slightly differently: Epic defrauded Apple when it withheld [deprived] Apple of $3.6 million [something] by secretly updating their app with code that bypassed the App Store for in-app purchases [deception].”

 

[jz0309]

I’m asking if epic defrauded apple
Then who committed this fraud
If it was fraud?

please read the Wike post @surferfb posted above.

 

[Stuwil]

Epic did not "try" - they did it.
Epic committed fraud, got caught and paid the price.

So who committed this fraud
Because a company name can’t do it
So who was it
That allegedly done this crime

 

[Stuwil]

please read the Wike post @surferfb posted above.

You said that epic committed fraud and if they did then who is responsible for this action against Apple?

 

[jz0309]

So who committed this fraud
Because a company name can’t do it
So who was it
That allegedly done this crime

Ask Sweeny ...
A company can do this, this is a civil matter between 2 businesses.

 

[davide_eu]

“Epic implemented changes in Fortnite intentionally on August 13, 2020, to bypass the App Store payment system, prompting Apple to block the game from the App Store and leading to Epic filing its lawsuit.”

I don't read "defraud"...

 

[Stuwil]

Ask Sweeny ...
A company can do this, this is a civil matter between 2 businesses.

How can a company commit fraud
Is epic a real person?
Because if an individual committed fraud in the USA
Then you are looking at up to 20 years in prison
So what individual did this crime of fraud

 

[surferfb]

I don't read "defraud"...

Again, Marian-Webster defines “defraud” as: “to deprive of something by deception or fraud.”

To try it slightly differently: Epic defrauded Apple when it withheld [deprived] Apple of $3.6 million [something] by secretly updating their app with code that bypassed the App Store for in-app purchases [deception].”

 

[jz0309]

How can a company commit fraud
Is epic a real person?
Because if an individual committed fraud in the USA
Then you are looking at up to 20 years in prison
So what individual did this crime of fraud

I cannot explain the US legal system here ...
This is not the CEO of Apple suing the CEO of Epic, this is the legal entity Apple suing the legal entity Epic.
It's a civil case, not criminal.