Epic Games Submits Fortnite to U.S. App Store

[Stuwil]

I cannot explain the US legal system here ...
This is not the CEO of Apple suing the CEO of Epic, this is the legal entity Apple suing the legal entity Epic.
It's a civil case, not criminal.

These are crimes where the perpetrator deceives the victim and wins their confidence. They are frequently targeted at vulnerable people and can include crimes such as charity scams, advance fee frauds and lottery scams. These are prosecuted under the Fraud Act with a maximum custodial sentence of 10 years.

Now if this is actually fraud or deceptive behaviour then your looking at this because some individual chose to do this.

Unless because this action was done for the whole public to see then it’s not really fraud or deception is it because everyone could see what they did that is why it was done in public for all to see.

 

[jz0309]

These are crimes where the perpetrator deceives the victim and wins their confidence. They are frequently targeted at vulnerable people and can include crimes such as charity scams, advance fee frauds and lottery scams. These are prosecuted under the Fraud Act with a maximum custodial sentence of 10 years.

again, no. it is a civil case.
but we are so digressing here, facts remain, Epic is banned and whether or not they will be allowed on the App Store in the future is up to Apple, no-one else.

 

[surferfb]

Unless because this action was done for the whole public to see then it’s not really fraud or deception is it because everyone could see what they did that is why it was done in public for all to see.

How dare you say I murdered someone - murder requires premeditation and it wasn’t premeditated, I was driving drunk when I hit that pedestrian.

Same thing here. Defraud in a legal sense is not the same defraud in standard conversational English.

I will agree with you that in the legal sense fraud would be much harder to argue given what happened, breach of contract is way easier (and is what Apple successfully argued in court).

But the original comment that started this sidebar:

No it sends the message that try to defraud us and we will kick you out.

Wasn’t saying “Epic should be charged with fraud” but was using defraud in its commonly accepted definition (“deprive someone of something through deceit”).

 

[wbeasley]

Apples lawyers already stated they are free to submit the app.

free to submit... does not = approved

 

[Stuwil]

How dare you say I murdered someone - murder requires premeditation and it wasn’t premeditated, I was driving drunk when I hit that pedestrian.

Same thing here. Defraud in a legal sense is not the same defraud in standard conversational English.

I will agree with you that in the legal sense fraud would be much harder to argue given what happened, breach of contract is way easier (and is what Apple successfully argued in court).

But the original comment that started this sidebar:

Wasn’t saying “Epic should be charged with fraud” but was using defraud in its commonly accepted definition (“deprive someone of something through deceit”).

Because everyone knows perfectly well
The intention is not deception or defrauding because if it was it would have been done in private
This was done in public deliberately to get kicked off the App Store and then start court proceedings as a consequence
Nothing else

 

[wbeasley]

and still has ANYONE come up with a reason to wipe iOS and install another OS to run what apps?

all the talk about "freedom" and yet nothing on what having that freedom will allow them to do...

i've given up on the circular discussion. some posters have made it very clear what the legal issues are regarding agreement breaking on purpose. others dont want to take that on board.

 

[wbeasley]

Best numbers I've see is 55% of iOS developers break even and >18% make $1000 or more in revenue per month. The majority do not make money.

Visibility is horrible unless you're an established app developer.

visibility isnt that bad.
you can Search for keywords something you cant do in a physical shop.

App of the Week and New are good for finding things you may not know.

Let's face it, with millions of apps it is always going to be hard.

I'd love to see the link to the stats you provided.
There are a lot of copycat apps and abandoned ones still sitting there.
I know Apple started a clean up of old apps that werent actively maintained.
Are all the free download apps, Spotify Office etc, part of the break even or not side?

Overall the AppStore has paid out billions to devs. So someone has made money.

And sometimes people do it not for the money. FlappyBird?
An app I supported at work was for rostering cloud system.
The free app with login was meant for employees and the money was made for selling the desktop solution and hosting.

 

[Stuwil]

and still has ANYONE come up with a reason to wipe iOS and install another OS to run what apps?

all the talk about "freedom" and yet nothing on what having that freedom will allow them to do...

i've given up on the circular discussion. some posters have made it very clear what the legal issues are regarding agreement breaking on purpose. others dont want to take that on board.

And what are the legal issues for breaking an agreement on purpose?

 

[jz0309]

Because everyone knows perfectly well
The intention is not deception or defrauding because if it was it would have been done in private
This was done in public deliberately to get kicked off the App Store and then start court proceedings as a consequence
Nothing else

Do you have a source for this? A statement from Epic? Court transcripts?

In the end it doesn’t matter, they broke an agreement, got banned and were found guilty in court.
Everything else is YOUR opinion, nothing else. You are entitled to your opinion of course

 

[davide_eu]

Guys,
I won't replicate anymore to this topic; I'm sad people prefer to be locked in a box instead of fighting for the freedom TO CHOOSE for them and for everybody else...

Take two mins of your team to read this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party just to prove in the past people fighted for freedom, to be independent, to be able to decide about their future... now they fight to be locked... very sad...

 

[Stuwil]

Do you have a source for this? A statement from Epic? Court transcripts?

In the end it doesn’t matter, they broke an agreement, got banned and were found guilty in court.
Everything else is YOUR opinion, nothing else. You are entitled to your opinion of course

In fact Tim Sweeney actually said himself that he deliberately did this to get kicked off the App Store so he could start court proceedings
Hence why he did it

Because if he never did it they wouldn’t have kicked him off them would they

Right so a company broke an agreement and got removed from an App Store ok

 

[Naraxus]

Once it's sold is your device.

I told that I wish *ALL* devices, without jailbreaking any device... but by-law to be a right for the users...

Yes, the device IS yours, but the operating system it runs is NOT.

 

[madebybela]

I still have no clue why they held the macOS version ransom too

 

[I7guy]

In fact Tim Sweeney actually said himself that he deliberately did this to get kicked off the App Store so he could start court proceedings
Hence why he did it

Because if he never did it they wouldn’t have kicked him off them would they

Right so a company broke an agreement and got removed from an App Store ok

Absolutely. Said another way, epic attempted to defraud Apple.

 

[Abazigal]

Interesting. A survey on mastodon found more people tend to support Epic not being allowed to return to the store, and this is already one of the more vocal platforms against Apple.

With the usual caveat that they are not the judge, maybe the people supporting sideloading and Epic continue to be a vocal minority who do not represent the wishes of Apple’s overall user base.

 

[soundwarp]

and you are implying that would mean approval?
Think again

It would make Apple actually look bad, why would they tell them to submit it just to decline it? It would mean disaster for the future of their case. Be real. The fact epic consulted apples own lawyers would show they did the correct process only for Apple to shoot themselves in the foot if they decline it.

 

[soundwarp]

free to submit... does not = approved

And you think Apple would willi be my let themselves look bad? 😉

 

[soundwarp]

Say Apple approves the app, would every one of you who are against it feel betrayed?

 

[jz0309]

It would make Apple actually look bad, why would they tell them to submit it just to decline it? It would mean disaster for the future of their case. Be real. The fact epic consulted apples own lawyers would show they did the correct process only for Apple to shoot themselves in the foot if they decline it.

“make Apple look bad” - for who? Most of Apples user base don’t know anything about this trial and everything, and won’t care.

I don’t know in which context the”Apple lawyers” said what you say, and whether or not they were authorized to talk for Apple I this matter.
Time will tell…

 

[surferfb]

It would make Apple actually look bad, why would they tell them to submit it just to decline it? It would mean disaster for the future of their case. Be real. The fact epic consulted apples own lawyers would show they did the correct process only for Apple to shoot themselves in the foot if they decline it.

Why would it mean disaster for the future of their case? The judge already ruled Apple was within their rights to kick them off and doesn’t have to let them back on.

 

[jz0309]

Say Apple approves the app, would every one of you who are against it feel betrayed?

Why would I? Its will be a business decision.

How will you and others feel if they reject?

 

[jz0309]

Why would it mean disaster for the future of their case? The judge already ruled Apple was within their rights to kick them off and doesn’t have to let them back on.

I think “disaster” would be for them to approve, there is no biz need for Apple as they don’t get a cut and it will make them look stupid in their appeal process. After all that appeal process is about revoking the external payment links…

 

[surferfb]

Say Apple approves the app, would every one of you who are against it feel betrayed?

Nope. Totally Apple’s decision. It’s their store. Just because I wouldn’t do business with someone who had previously defrauded me breached a contract doesn’t mean they can’t.

 

[Abazigal]

It would make Apple actually look bad, why would they tell them to submit it just to decline it? It would mean disaster for the future of their case. Be real. The fact epic consulted apples own lawyers would show they did the correct process only for Apple to shoot themselves in the foot if they decline it.

Or Tim Sweeney continues to be a lying sack of crap and none of the aforementioned conversation ever took place.

 

[surferfb]

The Washington Post just did an article on this. Let’s see what their comment section thinks about the ruling.

Again, I know this is hard for many on here to understand, but regular people see Apple’s rules and restricting developers as a feature they like and are willing to pay for, not one they put up with.