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Epic Games Throwing a 'FreeFortnite Cup' Bash Before iOS Users Lose Access
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Apps made the iPhone. If all developers pulled their apps from iOS, everyone would buy android.
How is Apple at fault when they spend billions building a platform and tools to help developers make money. They did not have to come to Apple’s platform if they didn’t care to help pay for its ongoing support. Apple is a business not a charity. The silly part is that if they didn’t need Apple’s customers they would just offer a free app and would not need to have payment options in the app. They would advertise their own platform and people would signup there with no need to use Apple’s APIs or other resources.
It's a mutually beneficial relationship however there is an inequality in that there is a larger number of app developers than the number of platforms. This means that for a number of app categories there is value being on the platform for the developer than they have not being there. It's also conversely true that a number of utility applications if not available on a platform would make it hard for that platform to compete. This is where Microsoft struggled with their phone operating system, the world had moved on and there wasn't enough of the "essential" apps to make up the gap.
The problem is that it is unlikely that enough developers would realistically pull their applications. Would Starbucks for example pull their app from iPhone? Likely not, it doesn't help them to exclude the platform that buys the generally more expensive devices. Similar issues for banking applications and many other sorts of "essential" apps. The other challenge is that apps leaving gives space for other app developers to capture marketshare filling the gap. It might not be as good or a complete replacement for the apps that leave but it only needs to be good enough.
Whilst iOS is mostly secure as with all modern OS’s there are holes that can be exploited which is why the additional layer of Apple’s locked down approach works so well.
That how apps on the Jailbreak store can modify system code and why jailbreaking is so popular.
Also if Epic or another 3rd party creates an App Store they won’t be using Apple’s parental controls meaning I then have to add my credit card to my daughters 3rd party App Store account which is a pain in the butt. Also I doubt that 3rd party App Store would check the apps the way Apple does so what would stop a jailbreak or even worse app getting through?
If there were true competition, there’d be no problem, but Apple walls us, it’s customers, in, and then extracts a ransom from anyone who wants to sell to us. Let’s have some competition. Let’s have alternative ways to get apps. If I were a betting man, Apple will win this battle but lose the war. The EU will kill their app store model and others will follow suit. But they’re a $2 trillion company (a sign of how much profit they extract from customers) so I’m shedding no tears for them.
Developers don’t make much money on Android so they need Apple. I would never buy Android. It will force Apple to make more and more APPS just like they did on the Mac. Apple should just charge companies that don’t want to pay a percentage a monthly subscription fee to for storage, bandwidth, marketing, access to APIs, and Engineering. Let’s not for get marketing, front of store displays, and customer service costs. I’m sure they wouldn’t like that direct upfront cost. It would mean that the developers would not be able to leverage Apple tech for free to develop their App and only pay if it was successful.
The issue I have with other stores , that they ONLY care about money , Apple cares about money but also the customer experience as its an important metric in their customer retention and makes ppl trust and love the brand more which
helps spending elsewhere in the ecosystem , what will happen when we have new stores :
1) biggest apps will go only to the new stores.
1.1) biggest apps will allow user tracking again to maximize profits (no more signup with apple , no more tracking prevention).
1.2) iOS users will be hostages to those developers (as you wont be able to download instagram/facebook/google maps and so on from the main store).
2) porn apps galore , gambling apps galore.
Now the developers are not at the top of the food chain , they are last , which i believe its the way it should be , there shouldnt be a point where developers are above the consumers , where they can do whatever they want without anyone enforcing pro consumers guidelines , and no matter what you think about the 30% , going the way of android where every app is and expected to gather and sell your data is a bigger downside to all iOS consumers , more so then the developers margins.
There is no way in hell facebook are going to skip the chance of yanking their app from the app store and put it where they can enable tracking again.
It's sad that Epic Games hurt those developers by violating their agreement as an iOS developer.
It's like the people who don't stop for Stop signs, as if to say "it wasn't convenient to stop at the time."
I don't think Apple should charge the 30%, but what about the Xbox and Playstation platforms charging 30%? Apple has been going with the crowd.
Go to a less supported platform. Being a 2 Trillion Dollar company is a sign of the value investors see in the company. They don’t have 2 trillion in the bank or anywhere near one. That’s like saying Epic should allow developers like Sony to promote their platform from within games on their engine and send payments elsewhere. They don’t allow that for some reason. I wonder why?
Are you joking? Why most devs are ok with this? Why most store has this cut? they manage payments, download and update servers, support and many other things. There literally an army of devs who can live with this work thanks to App Store ad I know few. Do you Think Epic ear too little money??
Revolutions only start when someone decided to cross the line.
I don't know about playstation but MS doesn't take 30% of in app subscriptions or purchases and they allow you to sign up within the app and also allow the developer to say, "go to this link to buy a subscription." When it comes to games though it's a different story.
I highly doubt that. Got any stats??? I mean I don't have any source on this but Macs have basically the same selling points as iPhones do - simple, easy to use, and just work. And they still sell really well without the App Store getting in the way all the time.
It's because of the heavy disadvantage Google put Epic and other storemakers in. There are limitations in Android that favor the Play Store over other stores. And Epic even tried to preinstall the Epic Games Store on LG and OnePlus phones but Google stopped them. You can read their lawsuit, it's rather interesting.
I'm not. Did you not understand my hypothetical analogy? I really don't want to be rude, but please re-read it.
I did read your analogy, and it just doesn't work. Saying "go to buy from a different country" or "move to a different country" is simply not analogous to "buy Android instead of Apple." The anti-trust arguments re: Apple would hold a lot more weight if Apple's marketshare was reaching the levels of anti-trust status, which they simple aren't. iOS currently has a 13.9% marketshare worldwide, vs. Android's 86.1%. Even if you look at only the U.S., where iOS holds a much, much higher marketshare, it's still not at monopoly levels - Android and iOS are kind of neck and neck, each hovering above and below the 50% mark.
Now, and perhaps I should have stated this in my previous post, I'm not outright defending Apple here. Apple has definitely done some shady things with the App Store, and have absolutely abused their power on more than one occasion. But the argument against the 30% commission fee doesn't really fall into that category. For one, the 30% is pretty much industry standard (for better or worse). Second, and this is a really important piece to keep in mind, Apple's 30% commission is taking money out of a developers pocket. It's not like a developer is making a limited set of goods, and Apple swoops in and takes 30% of those goods. A developer can set what price s/he/them wants, and can very easily factor in the 30% commission fee. So, let's say a developer wants to make $10 for an app - said developer can simply price it at $13 and make that $10 easily.
In the end, the only thing that Epic is accomplishing right now is hurting itself and its customers. The vast majority of people simply don't care about this fight b/w Epic and Apple (and Google), all they want is to be able to play Fortnite. In a couple of weeks, when suddenly they can't play Fortnite, these people aren't going to care who's at fault, Apple or Epic, they're just gonna be pissed that they can't play their game. And, if this goes on long enough, said players are simply going to find another game to play.
What are you on about?? Utter drivel!! Epic joined the gang, made a shed load of money on a deal that THEY joined into. Little while later they aren't happy, want all the money for themselves, and you think Apple are at fault??? Yes, 30% probably is high, but that was the deal on the table, simple.
Google, Apple, Sony etc are all being monopolistic? You know that’s not how monopolies work don’t you? It’s a marketplace and if you sell in a market place, you pay a fee.
How much profit margin do you think most retails stores have? How much profit margin do bars or restaurants have?
Apple is not a monopoly. If you don’t like using their App Store you can get an android phone or a Sony/blackberry/google or whatever else there is out there. There is plenty of choice.
Apple has created the hardware, created the OS. Has provided the storefront, the payment system, the customer service, the R&D and marketing for their devices that people buy to be able to play these games.
Yet people want to act like Apple are freeloading off others work. I’d love to see how much money Epic would have made if they went at it alone without all of the work Apple put into their devices and ecosystem.
There's one thing you are (maybe) ignoring: there's a contract between Epic and Apple. That agreement says Epic has to pay the annual fee (I think it's about 99$/y), plus 30% of any sold app, plus 30% of any in-app purchase. That's the agreement.
What if there was no 30% on IAP? Developers would sell all their apps "for free", then asking for money later in their own stores, through a different in-app purchase system, LEAVING APPLE WITH NOTHING.
That would probably push Apple to raise the annual fee to a point where big developers could still join the party, small companies would not.
The way those rules are right now helps small developers over big companies like Epic. Which means every developer can compete even if they are not big sharks.
So, I'm not talking about power market abuse, that's something the law is gonna determine, I'm talking about what WE, the users, are going to get if Epic wins: less developers, less competition.
Oh, by the way, if there was no 30% for Apple, we, the consumers, would not get any money out of it, other big companies like Epic would.
Last but not least, you are talking about a monopoly, when Epic is telling us that we are still able to play this supercalifragilisticexpialidocious game on other platforms... which is the exact opposite of a monopoly. Apple controls its market, not the market, just like Google and Walmart control theirs. But you are still able to buy from someone else. Just change your phone.
Not really, Apple is the bad guy...
Despite not being a Fortnite player, but a Unreal Developer, I’m just about to get rid of all my Apple devices... already watching a few eBay auctions to decide where to sell them...
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Going out on a limb here, but could it be they are trying to move mobile users to consoles for better revenue? After all, this Play/App Store fight seems to be well planned out in advance.
www.businessofapps.com
Fortnite Revenue Statistics
Fortnite’s Android release circumvented the Google Play Store, with the beta version only available on an invite-basis. This did not stop it being downloaded 15-million times, with 23 million players within 21 days of its release in mid-August. It was released fully in October 2018, though it is still not available through the Google Play Store, with Epic CEO Tim Sweeney claiming the company wants to build a direct relationship with its customers. It’s also a way to avoid Google taking a 30% cut of revenue.
...
According to analytics firm SuperData, Fortnite 2018 revenue came to $2.4 billion – the highest annual revenue figure in gaming history by its reckoning. This was considered to be a major factor in an 11% increase in total gaming revenue over 2017 (a total of $109.8 billion). For context, second-place (in the free-to-play category at least) Dungeon Fighter Online brought in $1.5 billion.
Fortnite remains well out ahead of other popular titles, such as PUBG or Call of Duty: Black Ops.Fornite revenue for the first half of 2019 at least is, however, well down on 2018.
Indeed, it seems that it has been on a downward slope since midway through 2018 – barring a in Fortnite revenue in December 2018 (for obvious reasons). In terms of iOS revenue, the $455 million revenue reported in this month saw an 83% increase over November 2018 and stood at 16% more than the previous peak of July 2018. Daily Fortnite iOS revenue in November 2018 was $1.23 million.
...
A May 2019 Newzoo found that 41% of US gamers play one the biggest three battle royale games (Fornite, PUBG, and Apex Legends), with a further 15% representing churned battle royale gamers who intend to play such a title again. 71% of these are primarily console gamers, 17% PC games, and the remaining 12% mobile gamers.
Fortnite Usage and Revenue Statistics (2025)
Fortnite refers to a video game series, set in a post-apocalyptic, zombie-infested world. It is produced by Epic Games, and uses the company’s signature Unreal Engine. At present, there are two games that fall under the Fortnite umbrella: a team-based survival shooter called Fortnite: Save the...
www.businessofapps.com
Fortnite Revenue Statistics
Fortnite’s Android release circumvented the Google Play Store, with the beta version only available on an invite-basis. This did not stop it being downloaded 15-million times, with 23 million players within 21 days of its release in mid-August. It was released fully in October 2018, though it is still not available through the Google Play Store, with Epic CEO Tim Sweeney claiming the company wants to build a direct relationship with its customers. It’s also a way to avoid Google taking a 30% cut of revenue.
...
According to analytics firm SuperData, Fortnite 2018 revenue came to $2.4 billion – the highest annual revenue figure in gaming history by its reckoning. This was considered to be a major factor in an 11% increase in total gaming revenue over 2017 (a total of $109.8 billion). For context, second-place (in the free-to-play category at least) Dungeon Fighter Online brought in $1.5 billion.
Fortnite remains well out ahead of other popular titles, such as PUBG or Call of Duty: Black Ops.Fornite revenue for the first half of 2019 at least is, however, well down on 2018.
Indeed, it seems that it has been on a downward slope since midway through 2018 – barring a in Fortnite revenue in December 2018 (for obvious reasons). In terms of iOS revenue, the $455 million revenue reported in this month saw an 83% increase over November 2018 and stood at 16% more than the previous peak of July 2018. Daily Fortnite iOS revenue in November 2018 was $1.23 million.
...
A May 2019 Newzoo found that 41% of US gamers play one the biggest three battle royale games (Fornite, PUBG, and Apex Legends), with a further 15% representing churned battle royale gamers who intend to play such a title again. 71% of these are primarily console gamers, 17% PC games, and the remaining 12% mobile gamers.
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Offering in-game purchases through their own payment system at a price lower than via Apple's system is neither bullying nor extortion.
Banning a game for doing that. That is bullying and extortion.
"Crazy" according to what? To other apps markets, where the standard is still 30%?
Or maybe to the 15% fee Apple is applying for subscriptions?
Cause if Epic wanted, they could pay just 15% not 30%. It would be a different model of business, but it's their decision to make.
There are other stores, just buy a different phone. Oh, Epic is suing Google too... and there are different stores within the same Android phone... problem is Epic wants to stay in Apple and Google store, but doesn't want to pay any fee.
Remember, if apps are free and there's no % on IAP, Apple and Google get NOTHING from developers.
Apple shot themselves in the knee by breaking the rule for Amazon (30% cut in the first year, then 15%). Once this became public, it's only normal for companies to revolt (in case of Epic, they are big enough to disrupt the industry). 30% cut indeed is a high percentage (not talking just about Apple, but about whole industry in general).