Just give up Epic, you are the bad guy here, apples software, apples rules, if you dont like them just **** and leave.
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Epic Games Throwing a 'FreeFortnite Cup' Bash Before iOS Users Lose Access
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Just have an honest question about the 30% and how adequate or disproportionate it is...
Back before everything was digital, it is my understanding that whoever made a product actually received less than 70% of the sale’s price. Stores would take their cut, but on top of that, the distributor would take a cut, and there is a price also associated with the physical media. I don’t know for sure, but I think I’ve heard gross profit in that case is AT MOST 60% of the sales price, and I think most often less than that (40%ish).
Granted digital vs. physical is not a 1:1; why is 30% considered such a big amount, when ostensibly if they were to sell the same thing physically, they would be making [significantly] less? Even if you forget the distributor and the cost of making physical media/packaging, physical stores take 30% or more (and I think mostly more). Moreover, if they were selling physical and digital wasn’t even an option, IAP/Loot Boxes wouldn’t be possible, and that’s where they make most of their profit. Without the paradigm that Apple (and others) have created for them, their business model wouldn’t even exist.
So basically I’m wondering why suddenly 70% gross profit on the sale of an item is not enough, when historically gross profit has been, as far as I know, far lower.
Genuinely curious, as I don’t see people talking about about what gross profit has been historically in comparison to the 70% a company gets after the 30% cut from most digital stores.
Back before everything was digital, it is my understanding that whoever made a product actually received less than 70% of the sale’s price. Stores would take their cut, but on top of that, the distributor would take a cut, and there is a price also associated with the physical media. I don’t know for sure, but I think I’ve heard gross profit in that case is AT MOST 60% of the sales price, and I think most often less than that (40%ish).
Granted digital vs. physical is not a 1:1; why is 30% considered such a big amount, when ostensibly if they were to sell the same thing physically, they would be making [significantly] less? Even if you forget the distributor and the cost of making physical media/packaging, physical stores take 30% or more (and I think mostly more). Moreover, if they were selling physical and digital wasn’t even an option, IAP/Loot Boxes wouldn’t be possible, and that’s where they make most of their profit. Without the paradigm that Apple (and others) have created for them, their business model wouldn’t even exist.
So basically I’m wondering why suddenly 70% gross profit on the sale of an item is not enough, when historically gross profit has been, as far as I know, far lower.
Genuinely curious, as I don’t see people talking about about what gross profit has been historically in comparison to the 70% a company gets after the 30% cut from most digital stores.
I always thought there are no fixed prices in a free market - and no industry standard as you call it. So your dreamin of socialism where the big boss sets the prices and everyone has to obey?
I‘m still voting for a free market with competition where price regulates itself.
If the 30% app fee is to help Apple maintain the free apps in the app store then Epic have every right to fight the fee because it is not Epic's responsibility to help support all those companies and developers who produce free apps.
Do your research and go see how much money Epic is making for Apple due to the 30% in-app purchase rule. It's making Apple multiple millions a month, so for all those supporting Apple, just what exactly is Epic getting out of Apple for the multi millions it is paying them? Remember, this is specifically related to the app store. Now if Apple are using the 30% fee to help pay for other areas within Apple, then again Epic have a right to challenge the 30% fee as it's not Epics responsibility to help pay for Apples R&D in other projects, it's not to pay for Apple servers in other projects, Epic pays for services from the app store, so again, what does Apple give back to Epic for all the multi millions Epic pays in app-purchase fees. I seriously doubt Apple would be able to justify that the amount of money they get from Epic is what pays for app store customer service to Epic and server hosting to Epic, as everything else is done by Epic.
Can Tim Cook just troll Epic and announce the iPhone as a Mi Moji of a Apple head talking?
Apple takes a commission, once that money is in their bank account, they can use it however they want. When I buy an iMac, I don’t expect 100% of Apple profit on my purchase to go to iMac development... Or when I use by credit card, I don’t expect Visa to use all of their profit from their “commission” to give a better service to the company that makes the good I just bought... A net profit has to be made, and once Visa has the money, it’s none of my business as a customer, or none of the the other company’s business what Visa does with it. As long as they keep providing that they take their commission for.
It gives Epic access to a huge install base that allows them to make millions. 💁🏼♂️
It’s brilliant to see how many people are supporting a company who are trying to remove the mechanisms and rights set in place to protect their own information privacy and their own financial integrity within the ios ecosystem.
Epic’s methods are clearly shady. Their reasoning makes little sense.
One would have to be a little concerned, not realising, that supporting one company charging a 30% fee verses accusing another in the same industry charging the same money, of some sort of extortion is the sort of reality distortion even Mr Jobs would be proud of.
I don’t want the ios experience compromised by multiple AppStore’s. I don’t want some game dev (be it epic, ea, or some dude down the street) to be able to direct my children to the open internet to be able to purchase some pack so they can change the clothes of a character - that truly would be extortion.
I don’t want some old person downloading a nefarious financial app that they got directed to from somewhere that rips their life savings from them.
If you want these things, choose another platform, don’t degrade this one.
This is a phone OS, not a computer OS. Regardless of the perceived similarities, they are fundamentally different and should remain that way, particularly regarding applications.
The AppStore 30% fee is what it is. In my work, I freelance, 30% is a very, very standard fee- even low in some cases. It’s annoying, and often all they do to earn that is simply give a client my website address. However, it’s a part of my income stream. I factor in the percentage to my pricing. They have helped me gain exposure, advertising and other generally painful or expensive things to achieve on my own and that’s worth it for me and most people in my field.
Epic are not your friend.
Epic’s methods are clearly shady. Their reasoning makes little sense.
One would have to be a little concerned, not realising, that supporting one company charging a 30% fee verses accusing another in the same industry charging the same money, of some sort of extortion is the sort of reality distortion even Mr Jobs would be proud of.
I don’t want the ios experience compromised by multiple AppStore’s. I don’t want some game dev (be it epic, ea, or some dude down the street) to be able to direct my children to the open internet to be able to purchase some pack so they can change the clothes of a character - that truly would be extortion.
I don’t want some old person downloading a nefarious financial app that they got directed to from somewhere that rips their life savings from them.
If you want these things, choose another platform, don’t degrade this one.
This is a phone OS, not a computer OS. Regardless of the perceived similarities, they are fundamentally different and should remain that way, particularly regarding applications.
The AppStore 30% fee is what it is. In my work, I freelance, 30% is a very, very standard fee- even low in some cases. It’s annoying, and often all they do to earn that is simply give a client my website address. However, it’s a part of my income stream. I factor in the percentage to my pricing. They have helped me gain exposure, advertising and other generally painful or expensive things to achieve on my own and that’s worth it for me and most people in my field.
Epic are not your friend.
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The 30% fee has been the same since the App store was launched, back when Apple and iPhone didn't have a name or consumer base. It was the standard fee. Epic can try "challenge" Apple's fee if they want to but Apple doesn't have to listen to them at all. Apple can charge what they want.
It's the same in all other online stores and also the same in retail stores, they take a cut of your product.
Epic has made millions of the App store, remember, of those so many millions you keep saying Apple made off them, Epic made the other 70%.... 70% for what? Fake in game currency that is basically code once and sell.
Apple on the other hand is running a store, the payment system, reviewing apps for its customers, advertising, server costs, customer disputes and contact, I can go on.
Epic can whine all they want but at the end of the day, Apple sets it's store rules, which Epic intentionally broke.
You use that word "monopolistic" but demonstrate zero comprehension of the word.
Report: Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard - IGN
A breakdown of how much every major retailer takes from the sale of a game.
Uh oh... everyone does 30%? And Epic released this permanent price drop on Playstation and Xbox and are still paying 30% to them without a problem? Looks like someone made a grave mistake here, willingly violated a contract they signed, and are now past the point of no return and are relying on abject ignorance to build support for their case.
The one really at fault here is easily identified and is a matter of basic contract law.
Not only did they intentionally break the rules, but they had a whole campaign ready for when it happened, with a video (those things take some time to make, and to vet. I make corporate videos, it is never quick), now this event. It’s clearly a publicity stunt to paint themselves as the victims and garner sympathy. I personally don’t think they care one bit about passing the savings to the customers, what they want is the ability to have their Epic Store on iOS and take advantage of Apple’s consumer base to make even more money off of the devs that sell games on their platform, without giving a cut to Apple. It’s pretty transparent.
Yes, they are, and that should cause Apple and investors a lot of concern. MacRumors runs articles every year on how popular Apple products are with kids. This matters a lot - most people will just continue into adulthood buying the new generations of what they had previously.
We’ll see a slow wave of Apple losing a lot of marketshare from this battle. How long Apple chooses to keep the fight up determines how big the wave is.
@MacRumors Please feel free to stop the Fortnight articles (and their free publicity) whenever you like!
And what's the problem?
So you think their rights, hobbies and lifes worth less than yours? Sounds like that...
Whats wrong with not being a grown up?
Just sounds like the usual dumb statement people use...
Kids finger points at Babies
Teenagers finger points at Kids
Adults finger points at Teenagers
Seniors finger points at Adults
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I think that’s a bit of an exaggeration. Kids, mostly, aren’t the ones picking their own phones/tablets (and there isn’t a huge competition in the tablet space). Their parents do. As much as it may pain some of them (kids have the ability to move from one fad to the next pretty quickly, after all), I’m sure there’s an equally important crowd of parents who will be happy not to have to police the usage of the game and have to battle their kids to come to the dinner table when they are in the middle of a game (not everyone knows about screentime). Moreover, I’d assume most kids who walk around with a multi-hundred dollar mobile device (if not thousand) has either a switch, a PS4, an Xbox and/or a PC to play fortnite on.
Why after so many articles, discussions, Twitters and FBs posts plus all sorts of back and forth replies (sometimes heated) it is still not clear that there’s AT LEAST something fishy going on...
Epic says “one bad apple” but not “one bad Nintendo” or PSN or etc which also charges 30%. Nintendo must even be incurring in higher costs for devs because have you seen how a $5 game on steam (which also charges 30%) tend to cost $20 on Nintendo’s online store? So, again, who’s really at fault here? According to that all of them.
They also said they were being threatened from the Apple ecosystem yet promote Mac... that’s still Apple, so sounds to me that at least they know they will fix something at the very last minute.
Or maybe I’m really missing something obvious that I’m not seeing, which I would really appreciate any sort of insight that could help really understand what’s going on.
PS: I’m not against the 30% on none of them. Nintendo creates the console, the market place, the dev kit and tools to test, if I get access to that (or the PS, Xbox equivalents) for that 30% is good for me. Just like Apple gives access to its whole suite of dev tech stack (games, apps, software, etc) for that 30%. They also did create the tech, gadget, market place and tools like the others.
Yep the investors are really concerned that is why Apple's stock price has increased since this started
FreeMeFromFortnite
FreeFortnite? Aren't they free already? Free from iOS App Store? I'm not well educated and it shows.. I give up.
Having never played Fortnite personally aI can't say much about the gameplay, but it looks to be a bad game in general.
Bubble Bobble... now that was a game
FreeFortnite? Aren't they free already? Free from iOS App Store? I'm not well educated and it shows.. I give up.
Having never played Fortnite personally aI can't say much about the gameplay, but it looks to be a bad game in general.
Bubble Bobble... now that was a game
It is not Epic's business to tell Apple how that money has to be spent.
The fee is clear.
Also of note from the article ... Since Epic is the owner of the unreal engine they're saving the additional 5% in licensing fees they charge other developers to use the unreal game engine. The numbers Epic quotes aren't quite as developer-friendly as they would have everyone believe. Put another way, Epic is penalizing developers who choose to market on App stores other than Epic.You use that word "monopolistic" but demonstrate zero comprehension of the word.
Report: Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard - IGN
A breakdown of how much every major retailer takes from the sale of a game.www.ign.com
Uh oh... everyone does 30%? And Epic released this permanent price drop on Playstation and Xbox and are still paying 30% to them without a problem? Looks like someone made a grave mistake here, willingly violated a contract they signed, and are now past the point of no return and are relying on abject ignorance to build support for their case.
The one really at fault here is easily identified and is a matter of basic contract law.
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Love it when someone is like “I figured out they knew the outcome beforehand look at how fast they had that video”, like if you stumbled upon some major revelation.
No, this is not David vs Goliath. But Apple and google are together controlling the entire techsphere which almost every human on earth is becoming more dependent on each passing year. It is not possible to make a competitor at the moment, nobody would buy “Epic Phone” running EpicOS no matter how good it would be. This market like everything else needs to be regulated.
Love it. Every day they are boiling the piss of people who class themselves as ‘AAPL fans’ and not just a consumer with agency.
the anger Epic has generated on these boards is testament to that. 🤣
*waits for all the angry presses on the dislike button*
the anger Epic has generated on these boards is testament to that. 🤣
*waits for all the angry presses on the dislike button*
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The walls were built before you bought. You didn't have to buy.
Why wasn't this 30% a huge deal when the App Store started? That's always been the price of admission and yet tons of developers have created tons of Apps for it.
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