Epic Resubmits Fortnite to U.S. App Store After Not Hearing From Apple for 120+ Hours

[rexhunt]

Yeah it's not really about that though is it.

People have paid Apple thousands for their iOS devices, some of them could play fortnite on their device when they bought it only for Apple to kick it off the store leaving the end user with no recourse. The end user shouldn't have trade their device in for another platform.

I've been saying it for a few years on here, If I could be bothered I would dig up the posts, Apple are going to get absolutely picked to pieces by courts and regulators over the next few years.

The discovery in this case says it all, there are high level executives in Apple that have a disgraceful, belligerent attitude, they genuinely think the rules don't apply to them. Ironic given how many they've got for everybody else.

The end user can deal with the company who willingly and voluntarily broke their valid enforceable contract with the distributor that now prevents the distribution of their product to end users.

I would argue that Epic’s actions/greed is the route cause of this situation

 

[rexhunt]

Well, the court decided that Apple was breaking the law.

Additionally the way the law works is that you cannot sue if someone didn’t do the action you were during over.

So, Epic had to break the rules and have Apple do something before they could sue.

If they broke the rules and Apple let it slide, then

it would be different if Apple allowed you to use different software on the hardware.

No they declared that they were in contempt of a court order they are different things

 

[patent10021]

Could've said five days instead of 120 hours. Sensationalism.

 

[davide_eu]

No. You are close, but still miles away. There are a ton of other phones (cities in your terrible analogy, or rather STORES would be more realistic) that people can buy and do anything they want with. They buy an iPhone it is clear how it works, and nobody is forcing them to. If I am using your example it would be like a City Council agreeing that McDonalds should offer Whoppers in their storefronts and let Burger King get paid directly and McDonalds just having to suck it up and get nothing.

if you want to look at it a different way, Epic's store rules would not allow Apple to offer FinalCut, iMovie, iWork, LogicPro, etc... in the EPIC store.... without Epic getting their % cut they make everyone else pay who is selling software in the Epic store.

This is purely Tim Sweeney being a little baby pooping his diaper. Just watch any video of him, he is a whiny man who is sad his store isn't big and basically Fortnite is their only money maker. They make deals with Developers where they GIVE away games for free just to get people to install their stuff... hoping people will install Fortnite so they can sell them V-Bucks. It's sad. He is sad.

It's incredibile how much time you have lost trying to defend a big company; I hope all of you are shareholder because I cannot understand why you are ready to go to the war for it...

 

[Piggie]

If I may ask.
Those defending Apple, and saying how Epic broke the rules years ago, hence they should not be allowed back today.

How do you feel about other laws that change?

Let's perhaps take something like Gay Marriage. And let's say X years ago this was illegal and you got put into prison.
Then years later, the law changes and now Gay Marriage is legal.

Do you feel those who broke the law at the time (gay people who got married) should stay in prison as they broke the laws in place at the time.
Or do you think they should be released now, as the law now has been changed, and todays new laws should be applied to them?

 

[ToothBlueth]

Hardware ≠ software. You pay for the hardware, and that hardware is yours. But you do not own iOS or any of its services. You’re a user of them.

It would be different should users be charged to use iOS, similar to how OS’s used to be paid.

Well… then let me replace the software, because in that case neither is practically true.

 

[Applestock]

If I may ask.
Those defending Apple, and saying how Epic broke the rules years ago, hence they should not be allowed back today.

How do you feel about other laws that change?

Let's perhaps take something like Gay Marriage. And let's say X years ago this was illegal and you got put into prison.
Then years later, the law changes and now Gay Marriage is legal.

Do you feel those who broke the law at the time (gay people who got married) should stay in prison as they broke the laws in place at the time.
Or do you think they should be released now, as the law now has been changed, and todays new laws should be applied to them?

Except the law didn’t change in the U.S. Fortnite is available in the EU because the law changed there. In the US, the courts determined Apple is not a monopoly and it is within their rights to remove a company from their store.

 

[kempathonnodge]

I think apple should allow jailbreaking, and let those who don’t understand the huge complexities of creating and running a secure and private platform go at it. The iPhone is a great piece of hardware BECAUSE of how apple runs and - more importantly than anything else - actively maintains the iOS platform.

30% (15% for small companies) is a small price to pay for the sales generated. Yes, it will look like a huge cost on paper for those turning over millions, but these companies are also making millions in profits.

Go after credit card companies charging for EVERY transaction you make. Go after pharmaceutical companies that actually make billions that ACTUALLY affects your life. Go after Sweeny for forcing your kids to ‘gamble’ with loot boxes, and earn ‘vbucks’ that can only be spent on… his platform. Go after Meta for creating a platform that causes addiction, division and the destruction of truth.

Because of this madness. Now apple is being steadily forced to do vast amounts of extra work FOR FREE to keep iOS secure and working whilst companies with only intentions to make money and potentially undermine security are allowed deep access to every part of the iPhone.

Don’t delude yourselves that we will see any meaningful benefit from external app purchases. Prices will not go down for the big companies, free apps will no longer be free. New games will cost more to develop and smaller companies will not be able to afford to make iOS apps as Apple will be forced to charge for developer tools. This will be bad for consumers.

 

[Trusteft]

Of course there is. Macs can run Windows.

I don't know if streaming is restricted in any way?

Epic is only trying to be available everywhere to make as much money as they can. It's about profits, full stop.

What does Windows have to do with my question?
Can Fortnite run on macOS natively and without Apple store?

 

[Macusercom]

Regular day of an App Store review employee: 😌😎

That day: Guys we need to call Tim Cook for this

 

[germanbeer007]

Well, the court decided that Apple was breaking the law.

Don't see the relevancy to the topic at hand. We're discussing app review times.

Additionally the way the law works is that you cannot sue if someone didn’t do the action you were during over.

Again, relevancy to Apple slowly doing the review?

So, Epic had to break the rules and have Apple do something before they could sue.

That's really not how it works. And nothing to do with App Review.

This ruling also benefits you.

It doesn't and it's not what we're talking about.

 

[techfreak23]

Here's my take: Sweeney's affectations to surprise notwithstanding, this should really be a surprise to precisely nobody. Apple stands to gain next to nothing from the new business model that Epic is attempting to engineer through "lawfare"; therefore, unless a US court plainly directs Apple to usher Fortnite back into the US App Store, Apple will do no such thing.

My reasoning: The screenshots indicating that Epic (ahem) "plans" to display a button leading to their own payment solution alongside a button leading to Apple's payment solution must be deemed as optimistically misleading at best and an outright lie at worst. Recent history has shown us that Epic is perfectly happy to break contracts to which they had previously "agreed" -- and which made them crap-tons of money, by-the-way -- therefore, nothing that Epic claims, in writing, verbally, pictorially or otherwise, can be considered trustworthy. Further, recognizing that Epic's long game here is to maximize profits and to convince as many of their players as possible to opt for Epic's payment solution... it should be pretty obvious that Apple's payment solution is going to entirely disappear from that screen just as soon as Epic feels they can get away with it.

It won't happen immediately, and it probably won't even happen all at once. Consider what has already happened: The original Epic payment system implementation -- the unauthorized one that started this entire debacle -- offered an outright discount for choosing to use their payment system over Apple's. The proposed payment buttons in the screenshot no longer offer that discount; rather, they offer non-monetary "Epic Rewards" instead, which can only be used in the Epic Store. Further, the current deal is 20% -- but the fine print states that this is a temporary promotion which drops back down to 5% in August.

Are you seeing a trend here? This is exactly the same as Darth Vader twisting Lando around his finger, as he quips, "I am altering the deal... pray I don't alter it any further." So yeah... anyone with even an ounce of sense knows not to trust Vader to stick to the deal.

Likewise for Tim Sweeney and Epic.

It's exactly that. Any other game that is on other platforms, as well as iOS/iPadOS, already does that. For example, I play Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. The PC version, which was released long after it was originally launched on iOS/iPadOS, is distributed directly through EA's installer. Guess how much that discount is by going through that store and paying EA directly. It's definitely not 30%. It's not even 10%. It's 5%. If that 30% commission went away, those savings are not going into the pockets of the consumers. It's going directly back to EA.

Epic is going a step further by offering "Epic Rewards" which really don't cost them anything like ACTUAL monetary discounts. IMO that is far more scummy behavior.

Epic is saying this is better for the consumer and that they're fighting for the consumer, but they are only doing it for themselves and their profits. There is no other consumer facing benefit to what they have been arguing here. Of course, Fortnite did not originally launch on iOS, but they have a lot to gain by being allowed access to Apple's marketplace. I have not dug too deep past what is reported on MR on this whole thing so I am not sure if revenue percentages from iOS vs other platforms has been disclosed, but I would imagine it's a decent enough chunk if Epic is trying so hard and spending so much in legal fees to get back into the store.

 

[techfreak23]

Apples and Oranges comparison.

iOS has -never- been an open platform. Side-loading has never been available to the general user base.

Apple is being forced to open it up in some markets.

Open is great. I install a ton of open-source software on my Mac via vetted package services (specifically MacPorts), but iOS was never designed nor advertised to allow that, so Apple is not taking anything away that previously existed.

You want open... go with Android. Simple choice.

That is what people don't seem to get. People that disagree with Apple's decisions on mobile always make that argument "what about Macs? I can install anything on my Mac!" or "what about Android? Google lets me do that!" Yes, that is true, but they are totally different paradigms. Apple computers have always had the ability to do that and continue to have that ability. iPhones and iPads never have because Apple had a different strategy and intent with those devices. They also had totally different competition at the time the iPhone and App Store were released compared to Macs vs PCs where that was the norm for a personal desktop or laptop computer. Many "smartphones" at the time that had the ability to download apps only had one source of those apps and did not allow any other kind of marketplaces or sideloading. Google obviously decided not to go that route with Android, but that doesn't mean Apple has to and it should not be forced to. It would be one thing if Apple was like Google or Microsoft where they licensed iOS/iPadOS to other OEMs, but they don't. People are not buying a piece of hardware and installing an OS separately like they seem to think. I think a lot of people that buy prebuilt PCs don't even realize that is what they're actually buying, except the vendor is the one who built the hardware and installed the OS for them. They are buying a fully integrated hardware/software product from Apple and Apple should be able to dictate the capabilities of those products.

 

[d686546s]

And because the court ruled Apple isn’t a monopoly, they can decide what products they offer in their store. They’re under no obligation to accept the app any more than Walmart is obligated to carry a Target house brand.

Epic broke the contract. Because they broke the contract they were thrown out of the App Store. Can any point to any ruling that says Apple has to let them back in?

They can submit until they are blue in the face. It’s not going up on the store and Apple will make sure of that. You bit the hand that feeds…

No. It's time for Sweeny to realize that his theft has cost him millions, if not billions and give up this charade. He's not getting Fortnite back on the App Store nor should any Epic app be allowed back.

My prediction is that all of this will result in a win the battle, lose the war outcome.

What Apple is demonstrating is that fears over access to one of the biggest smartphone platforms on the world being solely regulated by a single company's whims can have real and tangible negative consequences.

The EU isn't the only jurisdiction that has or is considering whether such access needs to be guaranteed by law and if i was a policy maker in any of these jurisdictions I'd strongly take note of this.

It may be that we do not care about Epic, but do you really want to take the risk that software can only be made available to the public if one of two US giants are okay with it? Do you want to take that risk particularly in a much more hostile global environment?

Apple will have its reasons for this. I'm definitely not saying they are not within their legal right to do this. I don't think it will help them in the long run.

 

[bergert]

I''m a leaker and I will share some very special news with you:

The company behind fortnight sucks big time!

 

[DaveN]

Remember when you were a kid and some other kid would start going off on you so you just stuck out your hand with the palm facing them? Yeah, talk to the palm of your hand and ignore them. Sometimes it is best to say nothing and do nothing.

 

[Muzzakus]

Apple is so corrupt. If they do this with a juggernaut like epic, imagine what a independent developer is at the mercy of

 

[ToothBlueth]

I''m a leaker and I will share some very special news with you:

The company behind fortnight sucks big time!

You just leaked you are a victim to AppleSpeak.

 

[Abazigal]

This entire saga is basically Tim Sweeney monologuing from start to end.

His company submitted the Fortnite app on a Friday, right before App Review was scheduled to go on break over the weekend.

He made a personal statement about he felt that Apple ought to approve his app to avoid looking bad. That's just his own opinion, and not one that was supported by the courts.

Now, he's acting all surprised and shocked that his app still hasn't been approved, when Apple was never under any obligation to do so.

Notice how, throughout all this, Apple has not commented publicly on this matter. Remarkable restraint.

Someone nominate him for best actor ASAP!

 

[DEXTERITY]

Does Apple have to accept every company? You would think it is their platform and they can pick and choose who they want just like a private retail store doesn’t have to sell your merchandise. Oh wait, people will cry and sue if they do that.

 

[smythey]

120 hrs - aka 5 business days. 🙄

 

[germanbeer007]

The people that defend this would lose their mind if Microsoft announced tomorrow that they will now require all apps come from their store and Windows couldn't run anything else. It is that level of stupid.

opening the door, having people investing billions in setting up infrastructure, then closing the door is a lot different than having the door closed from the beginning.

sorry, you made a terrible example.

 

[surferfb]

There's a fat chance the appeal will be accepted by a higher court.

What judicial errors were there?

Apple lays out a bunch in their filing.

There are two that are particularly convincing to me (I am not a lawyer).

One is that the judge ruled that California courts would see the anti steering language as against California law, which is why she ruled against Apple on the point. Since then, California courts have ruled that the anti-steering language is not a violation of the law. State courts’ interpretations of state laws override federal courts’ interpretations of state laws. The judge completely ignored that.

The other is that it’s unconstitutional to prohibit Apple from charging a commission. If Apple is correct on that, then I imagine the court’s order would be changed on just that point (in other words, link outs must be allowed, but Apple gets to charge a commission).

There are a bunch of other arguments laying out how the judge’s original order overstepped, but most of them are procedural

Again, I’m not a lawyer, so no idea how convincing these arguments are to an appeals court.

 

[surferfb]

You don't get to avoid judgement just because you have filed an appeal. Quite literally 99% of all inmates in US prisons are awaiting the outcome of some sort of appeal. It doesn't mean they don't need to abide by the judgement of the court in the previous (standing) ruling. Appeals can take years. It stands until it's overturned.

Again, Apple is complying with the judgement. The judge ruled Apple was within its rights to kick off Epic and did not have to let them back on.

 

[BigDO]

I hope Apple gets slapped with a huge contempt of court fine. This is Musk-level petty trolling.