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If you look at the details of those, it wasn’t simply about the company getting big, it was about the company doing things like buying competitors and restricting access to publicly available resources in order and other activities in order provide no other option than for them to get bigger. Apple’s growth is because they made things that people wanted to buy. They didn’t pressure carriers to NOT carry other phones, they didn’t buy out and shut down Motorola or other competitors, they didn’t artificially lower the price of the hardware such that the competition was unable to match those prices (which are all analogs to what Bell and Standard were doing).
But Apple does force developers to agree to their terms or lose access to 60% of U.S. consumers. You’re free to disagree, but a lot of people would see no difference between that and the other items you listed when it comes to acting anti-competitively.
 
I've said it before and I will say it again.... if a court forces Apple to make iOS an open platform where anybody can sell whatever they want however they want and not pay anything to Apple, then Epic should be made to make Fortnite an open platform where third parties can sell their own character skins or in-game digital gear or whatever they want and not have to pay Epic a dime.

It really works both ways. When you build a platform that has a marketplace then you should be allowed to be the gatekeeper of that marketplace. Nintendo, Sony and X-Box have done this for years. You cannot go out and write a game for Nintendo Switch and sell it without paying something to Nintendo.
 
Steam doesn't control your entire PC software experience

Steam is an example of a third party App Store experience that many would welcome on iOS
Correct and Apple doesn’t control all smartphones. Using generics and not including a company’s trademarked names in the definition of a market provides a rational definition of a market.

Otherwise, Apple has as much of a monopoly over Apple’s iOS App Store as Valve has on Valve’s Steam.
 
But Apple does force developers to agree to their terms or lose access to 60% of U.S. consumers. You’re free to disagree, but a lot of people would see no difference between that and the other items you listed when it comes to acting anti-competitively.
Apple ONLY forces developers to agree to their terms on Apple’s iOS device which connects to Apple’s App Store. They have zero control over anything not made by Apple.
 
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Correct and Apple doesn’t control all smartphones. Using generics and not including a company’s trademarked names in the definition of a market provides a rational definition of a market.

Otherwise, Apple has as much of a monopoly over Apple’s iOS App Store as Valve has on Valve’s Steam.
Except Apple has control over the entire smartphone experience for 60% of U.S. consumers.
 


Apple is stifling competition with its monopoly on app distribution through the App Store, attorneys general for 35 states told a California appeals court on Thursday.

app-store-blue-banner-epic-1.jpg

The joint statement was submitted into the appeals process that is ongoing following the judge's decision in the Epic v. Apple lawsuit, with the attorneys general siding with the "Fortnite" video game maker on the issue, reports Reuters.
According to the Financial Times [paywalled], the US Department of Justice also challenged last year's ruling, saying in its own submission that the court had "committed several legal errors that could imperil effective antitrust enforcement, especially in the digital economy."

The DoJ said the court had interpreted the Sherman Act, an 1890 law prohibiting anti-competitive behavior, "narrowly and wrongly, in ways that would leave many anti-competitive agreements and practices outside their protections."

The judge's decision in the Oakland, California case mostly ruled against Epic last year, although both Apple and ‌Epic Games‌ have decided to appeal the original ruling as neither company was satisfied with the outcome. ‌Epic Games‌ wanted the court to force Apple to support third-party App Stores, which did not happen.

U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers ruled that the 15% to 30% commission that Apple charges some app makers through its in-app payment system did not violate antitrust law.

Along with the states, professors and activist groups also weighed in through court filings that described legal arguments in support of Epic, according to Reuters.

The states said in their filing that the lower court erred when it decided that a key antitrust law did not apply to non-negotiable contracts Apple makes developers sign, a claim Epic also made when it first filed its appeal earlier this month.
Apple, which is expected to reply in March, said on Thursday it was confident Epic's challenge would fail, and that it remained "committed to ensuring the App Store is a safe and trusted marketplace for consumers and a great opportunity for developers."

Article Link: Epic vs. Apple Takes a Twist As 35 US States and Department of Justice Weigh in to Back 'Fortnite' Maker


I really like the security and assurance that the app store gives. the ability to see all my subscriptions and purchases. cancel, claim a refund and even challenge a payment.
This is a service to consumers like and developers need to conform to the security and level of service that we as consumers expect.

Personally, I hope things will stay the same or that Apple will be able to differentiate between people that opt for the apple app store vs people that want sideloading and other stores support.

As a developer, I also hope that Apple will start charging the developers that are not part of the apple app store fees for use of Xcode, license for updates, delayed releases of app and os's, restrict access to wwdc, no access to beta code, no access to advanced libraries and parts of the hardware.

Epic and their likes expect to have all the apple research and development given to them for free? embarrassing.
 
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As an iOS user, I would likely purchase/download apps only from third-part app stores if they maintained the privacy nutrition labels AND did a better job of reviewing apps so I don't purchase a scam app by mistake. This is one area where Apple really does not have a leg to stand on. They say that they review apps so you can feel safe, but too many nefarious apps slip through the filter.
 
Apple ONLY forces developers to agree to their terms on Apple’s iOS device which connects to Apple’s App Store. They have zero control over anything not made by Apple.
You're mixing hardware monopoly a.k.a. gatekeeping with software distribution platforms availability.

I have Steam, Epic, GOG, MSStore and manually downloaded/installed Software on my PC, that's not monopoly that's a healthy competition. And that's exactly how it should be on iOS, just like on macOS.
 
I really like the security and assurance that the app store gives. the ability to see all my subscriptions and purchases. cancel, claim a refund and even challenge a payment.

Third party stores offer all of that - just look around at examples on many platforms.

They even offer things Apple refuses to (demo's, trials, even easier refunds, etc)
 
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Yes I do. I have been infected with malware on my macs.
The last time I saw a Mac virus was when Chris Johnson's Disinfectant and Gatekeeper were around. in 1993

No software will prevent malware that tricks you into downloading and installing it

I have antivirus on Windows as well. People need to wake up. If macOS and Windows are flipped, malware would be a major issue on Mac like it is on windows.
When people talk about "malware" they tend to think viruses and as Malwarebytes states Windows is still "more prone to “traditional” malware". By contrast, "the top 10 Mac threats were adware and what are known as “potentially unwanted programs.”" In fact going back to the Malwarebytes report referred to several things come out:

1) Most Mac malware is more nuisance than danger
2) Mac malware is growing mostly due to one app
3) You have to install Mac malware yourself!

From a thread about this on Apple's developer forums:

"The macOS uses these to combat malware:

Gatekeeper mechanism, central to security services, which tries to ensure that any code loaded is ‘safe’. Code signatures are only part of this.

XProtect checks the security and integrity of files in broader ways too. Vulnerable document types, such as JPEG images, are also screened to ensure that they’re not malicious.

Apple’s Malware Removal Tool an app which often complements XProtect’s signature-based screening, and can automatically remove all traces of many different species of malware.

System Integrity Protection which ensures that nothing can tamper with key system files, or even Apple’s bundled apps."

Now none of the will prevent you from getting social engineered into installing something you really shouldn't have. Windows tries but still has problems and the part of it is still a target of cold callers - opening this part up and see all the warnings? They will use that to convince you to "fix" your windows machine.
 
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You're mixing hardware monopoly a.k.a. gatekeeping with software distribution platforms availability.

I have Steam, Epic, GOG, MSStore and manually downloaded/installed Software on my PC, that's not monopoly that's a healthy competition. And that's exactly how it should be on iOS, just like on macOS.
And that logic could be applied to Xbox, Nintendo, and the like.
 
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And that logic could be applied to Xbox, Nintendo, and the like.

Which is fine - let's worry about them in a different thread and/or forum

A key differentiator here that's emerged is the role the smartphone device plays in everyday life/work requirements and the essentially two player landscape we have.

Game consoles are just not nearly as critical and thus have received nowhere near the scrutiny
Not saying that's right or wrong - just making an observation.
 
What security is provided by having only apple as the payment processor vs payal?

I think the idea of the security comes from maintaining a store where products are vetted. Changing the payment system could also break up the App Store to other marketplaces with potentially less control?
 
Same crap goes for that newly introduced UniversalControl, that thing exist since the 90s on PCs and Macs.
With "Synergy" you can do this since many years between Android, Windows, Linux, macOS.

Apple is using the monopoly that iOS has to introduce new features that only works between iOs and macOS, to anticompetitively cross strengten the platform and mainly sales. At the same time they prohibit such kind of software to run on iOS, it' just another lock-in.

Apple is evil, good that governments are slowly waking up, corona was probably blocking their minds!
 
According to people Apple should only sell inside it's company.

Should stop selling to China because they copy everything, should get out of India market because of work condition ... then there was EU for their warranty policies then there was Russia because they steal data... you understand that if they withdrew from any market they have some issue with it will be the end of Apple.

If Apple did what you suggest it would only lose money.

It's a corporation, not a 2-year-old picking up its ball and leaving going home.
Most of the time they wouldn't need to follow through, because under threat of losing their iPhone most consumers would straighten their legislators right out. This approach would put Apple in a position of power. Once you put a chip in their armor, every state, every municipality, every idiot 1,500 year old cryptkeeper politician that doesn't know anything about technology, is going to follow suit and try to bend Apple to their will. Which is unprofitable in the long term, since profit is what you care about. I'm a shareholder too, just not an incredibly short-sighted one.
 
Apple, the richest company in the world, charges 30% on iOS app developers including small businesses. These businesses don't have much choice but to abide by Apple tax due to the iPhone's popularity. It's a monopoly.
Apple was charging the same percentage nearly everybody else was - Report: Steam's 30% Cut Is Actually the Industry Standard. The one good thing that came out of this was a reduction for the small developers by most of the players.

Also your tense is wrong - is should be charged (past tense). If you are going over $1.3 million in a year small business doesn't apply anymore so true small business only pay 15%.
 
But Apple does force developers to agree to their terms or lose access to 60% of U.S. consumers. You’re free to disagree, but a lot of people would see no difference between that and the other items you listed when it comes to acting anti-competitively.
Does Epic negotiate terms when selling on their store?
 
Heh, this is what all you apologists always say. "Apple should leave so and so jurisdiction" because something they dont like.

Actually I would very much welcome if all the garbage apps would leave the App store.

Legitimate developers could always have a two-tiered approach to selling apps for the iPhone, accepting Apple's 15-30% cut depending on revenue, or selling it for less on an alternative store platform or directly to the user via side load.

I think the choice should be up to the user, not Apple - like it is on computers and the competing smartphone platform.
I'm not arguing that the garbage apps wouldn't leave the app store. I'm arguing that the garbage company would still expect you to have their app for whatever feature you need (paying bills, getting information, etc.) but instead of getting it through Apple's safe store, you have to get it through some shoddy third party store. The worst-case scenario is that as many companies as you do business with, you'd have to download from that many stores and they'd all be less secure than the app store.

Was gaming better when Steam was the primary launcher, or when every idiot company made a launcher that you use for only one game? Was streaming better when Netflix stood alone, or now that there are as many streaming services as greedy corps and you have to google where to watch something and hope that you're already paying $10/mo for it? You want installing apps on your phone to be an equally crappy experience as these? There's already Android OS if you want a crappy experience installing apps. Isn't that enough?
 
Most of the time they wouldn't need to follow through, because under threat of losing their iPhone most consumers would straighten their legislators right out. This approach would put Apple in a position of power. Once you put a chip in their armor, every state, every municipality, every idiot 1,500 year old cryptkeeper politician that doesn't know anything about technology, is going to follow suit and try to bend Apple to their will. Which is unprofitable in the long term, since profit is what you care about. I'm a shareholder too, just not an incredibly short-sighted one.
So if this appeal goes against Apple or Congress passes the legislation currently in the Senate, do you think government will treat credibly a threat from Apple that they'll pull out of their most lucrative market? I would laugh straight in Cook's face on that one.
 
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I mean that did happen to netflix, every network has their own plus service, and netflix keeps losing the 3rd party content to the 1st party platform.
Yes, that's what I said. Was it better when a bunch of vultures pulled Netflix apart into 100 inconvenient services? Was everyone like "oooh wowwww, I'm so glad there are 100 different places to stream my shows now, this is so convenient"?
 
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