Epic Wins Appeal to Continue Antitrust Case Against Apple in Australia

[turbineseaplane]

Some of you in here have Apple Stockholm syndrome

 

[CarlJ]

Hear hear! Smart move on Australia's part. More and more countries around the world are looking into the immoral and monoplistic App Store behaviour of Apple. Their stranglehold is coming to an end!

Next let's go after McDonalds! How come you can only get McDonalds food inside a McDonalds restaurant? I demand that other companies be allowed to sell their food inside McDonalds restaurants!

 

[I7guy]

A toggle doesn’t remove any choice from people that don’t want to sideload. Gonna keep repeating this point till you lot acknowledge the fact that you’re really just trying to punish others for not thinking the way you do. Nobody said it should be open for everyone, and it absolutely shouldn’t be

Sure. Just like creating a garbage dump behind an apartment complex. Some may not care, but for sure everybody in the apartment complex is affected.

Some of you in here have Apple Stockholm syndrome

Cogent, informative, rational post of the day. How is airing ones preferences akin to the premise of your post, which is some insult towards those who may not want the options of sideloading.

 

[VespiYT]

Im not a negative person but im probably losing braincells from some comments here

 

[I7guy]

Hear hear! Smart move on Australia's part. More and more countries around the world are looking into the immoral and monoplistic App Store behaviour of Apple. Their stranglehold is coming to an end!

The counter of that is that nothing will happen since we're discussing hypotheticals.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Next let's go after McDonalds! How come you can only get McDonalds food inside a McDonalds restaurant? I demand that other companies be allowed to sell their food inside McDonalds restaurants!

Wow - that is a really awful comparison.

We could be here all day picking apart problems and differences there Carl.

I get what you're trying for, but that's....not it.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Wow - that is a really awful comparison.

We could be here all day picking apart problems and differences there Carl.

I get what you're trying for, but that's....not it.

Yeah no kidding, way to demonstrate that you don’t really understand what’s being discussed.

They’re literally arguing against a toggle that when kept OFF changes absolutely nothing for them. In other words they’re arguing NO because apple wants NO, and no other reason at all. The marketing works very well.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They’re literally arguing against a toggle that when kept OFF changes absolutely nothing for them. In other words they’re arguing NO because apple wants NO, and no other reason at all.

It's a mental prison -- and they love it and advocate for it!

The RDF in full effect.

I'm not sure even Steve could have seen this level of "buy in" to the BS from his own company.

 

[VespiYT]

Also people saying some of apps may stop using appstore, well I would never download them again if they leave appstore and only become available from sideloading. I knew when I bought Iphone that I couldnt sideload and walled garden is exactly why I bought iphone instead of android, ppl buying iphone and now complain they cant sideload etc are just plain stupid, like wtf you knew what you were buying

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Also people saying some of apps may stop using appstore, well I would never download them again if they leave appstore and only become available from sideloading. I knew when I bought Iphone that I couldnt sideload and walled garden is exactly why I bought iphone instead of android, ppl buying iphone and now complain they cant sideload etc are just plain stupid, like wtf you knew what you were buying

So you’ve never bought a product and had ideas for improvement? Why does apple have the feedback app? These issues aren’t deal blockers for us but they’d make our lives a lot better if they were resolved in a way that doesn’t impact people that don’t want it. Like, say, a toggle.

I don’t appreciate being called stupid for putting in my 2 cents (though I grant that it’s probably a few dollars by this point).

 

[turbineseaplane]

@VespiYT

Try to disagree without directly telling people they are "just plain stupid"

You don't win many debates or convert many people to your way of seeing things with that approach.

 

[CarlJ]

Only thing ironic is trying to claim you want people to have a choice by… not offering a choice at all, even though that toggle in settings would completely satisfy both people.

why not just be outright about it and say you want it done your way and nobody else has the right to theirs 🙄

You're acting like iPhones are a natural resource. They're not. They're one line of phones from one manufacturer. Some of us like their current walled-garden model and intentionally chose that over what Android has to offer. If you want the Android model, just go use Android, and leave Apple's walled-garden model alone, for those that prefer it.

Having a toggle in settings doesn't offer the choice you keep insisting, if some companies start offering their apps only on the third party sites and not through the App Store. A toggle in settings would definitely NOT "completely satisfy both people".

You're trying to take away a choice from others, and continually saying/believing, "but I'm helping them". Your "help" is not wanted. Some of us really do want the enforced walled-garden model, and not because we were misinformed or didn't understand the choices available - we understand just fine, we made an informed decision, and you're trying to take the choice away from us. That's why we're upset.

Again, there's a whole ecosystem out there that works exactly the way you want (in fact, it's a larger ecosystem than Apple's), by all means go use it and be happy - stop trying to change this one to be just like that one. Stop trying to "help" with this one.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

You're acting like iPhones are a natural resource. They're not. They're one line of phones from one manufacturer. Some of us like their current walled-garden model and intentionally chose that over what Android has to offer. If you want the Android model, just go use Android, and leave Apple's walled-garden model alone, for those that prefer it.

Having a toggle in settings doesn't offer the choice you keep insisting, if some companies start offering their apps only on the third party sites and not through the App Store.

You're trying to take away a choice from others, and continually saying/believing, "but I'm helping them". Your "help" is not wanted. Some of us really do want the enforced walled-garden model, and not because we were misinformed or didn't understand the choices available - we understand just fine, we made an informed decision, and you're trying to take the choice away from us. That's why we're upset.

Again, there's a whole ecosystem out there that works exactly the way you want, by all means go use it and be happy - stop trying to change this one to be just like that one. Stop trying to "help" with this one.

No. A toggle still changes nothing for people that don’t want the functionality. Ignoring that fact doesn’t make your argument any better.

again, toggle OFF = no sideloading, AppStore only = nothing changes for you

If companies leave the AppStore then that means the AppStore rules weren’t working for them. But then as per your previous arguments they’d get no marketing support, no security, etc. So that would negatively impact them, no? Or are you arguing that you want them to stay with the AppStore despite not receiving fair treatment as per current rules? That’s a little sadder in nature if so

 

[CarlJ]

So you’ve never bought a product and had ideas for improvement? Why does apple have the feedback app? These issues aren’t deal blockers for us but they’d make our lives a lot better if they were resolved in a way that doesn’t impact people that don’t want it. Like, say, a toggle.

I don’t appreciate being called stupid for putting in my 2 cents (though I grant that it’s probably a few dollars by this point).

There's a difference between suggesting something, and demanding that the government step in and make it illegal not to do that thing you suggested.

And, yeah, if someone spent many hundreds of dollars on an iPhone and then, after buying, were upset that they couldn't sideload - indicating that they did no research before spending all that money, then I would have no problem calling them stupid. Apple's app model and ecosystem is quite clear to anyone who does a few minutes of research.

 

[VespiYT]

So you’ve never bought a product and had ideas for improvement? Why does apple have the feedback app? These issues aren’t deal blockers for us but they’d make our lives a lot better if they were resolved in a way that doesn’t impact people that don’t want it. Like, say, a toggle.

I don’t appreciate being called stupid for putting in my 2 cents (though I grant that it’s probably a few dollars by this point).

Ok stupid is alittle harsch I apologize but I cant understand why someone buy something then complain about how it works, I always read about something before I buy it to make sure it has what I want,

@VespiYT

Try to disagree without directly telling people they are "just plain stupid"

You don't win many debates or convert many people to your way of seeing things with that approach.

Ok I admit I did wrong, But I cant understand like I said how ppl can buy something and know how it works, then complain about how it works

Edit: Also I know this has to do with fees for developers but they get dev tools and free publishing for those or am I wrong? Im not a dev

 

[turbineseaplane]

No. A toggle still changes nothing for people that don’t want the functionality. Ignoring that fact doesn’t make your argument any better.

again, toggle OFF = no sideloading, AppStore only = nothing changes for you

People are just not using their imagination enough here either.

There are a LOT of ways Apple could neuter the side loading experience and requirements and "process" to make it totally untenable for any mainstream business to attempt to force their customers through it.

Heck - they could make it through a Mac with a cable - only - as just one of a zillion examples.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Ok stupid is alittle harsch I apologize but I cant understand why someone buy something then complain about how it works, I always read about something before I buy it to make sure it has what I want,




Ok I admit I did wrong, But I cant understand like I said how ppl can buy something and know how it works, then complain about how it works

Appreciate that.

Try to think of this on a longer arc.
Many of us have been iPhone users since literally the start in 2007.

We love most all things about it, but advocate for it to keep getting better.

That's how things improve!

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

There's a difference between suggesting something, and demanding that the government step in and make it illegal not to do that thing you suggested.

And, yeah, if someone spent many hundreds of dollars on an iPhone and then, after buying, were upset that they couldn't sideload - indicating that they did no research before spending all that money, then I would have no problem calling them stupid. Apple's app model and ecosystem is quite clear to anyone who does a few minutes of research.

I never demanded for the government to step in and investigate. I just happen to agree with said investigation. I’m not the government, dude

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Appreciate that.

Try to think of this on a longer arc.
Many of us have been iPhone users since literally the start in 2007.

We love most all things about it, but advocate for it to keep getting better.

That's how things improve!

Exactly yeah, I’ve been a customer since 2009, and back then I had no issues with it. My desire for sideloading only grew with my expertise in software.

calling me stupid (which so far VespiYT and CarlJ have done) does nothing to further their arguments which didn’t have much validity in the first place. So yeah I’m probably done with this thread unless someone posts an actual argument - I don’t particularly enjoy chats where we’ve resorted to name calling in lieu of using our minds a bit and playing devils advocate (thinking outside the box if you will).

good luck to all involved, I know I’ll be watching these investigations with much interest and optimism. ❤️

 

[CarlJ]

No. A toggle still changes nothing for people that don’t want the functionality. Ignoring that fact doesn’t make your argument any better.

again, toggle OFF = no sideloading, AppStore only = nothing changes for you

Wrong. You'd like to think it'd be like that, but it won't. Some companies would withdraw their apps from the App Store, seeing the potential for more money via third party stores and wanting to force people to use those instead of the App Store, and then people would have to choose between either having access to those apps (via the third party app stores) OR remaining in the walled garden with all of its security and privacy features.

This would make the iPhone a worse product.

Or are you arguing that you want them to stay with the AppStore despite not receiving fair treatment as per current rules?

You seem to have appointed yourself judge of whether the current payment, privacy, and security rules are "fair". There's a difference between not liking the rules and them being unfair.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Wrong. You'd like to think it'd be like that, but it won't. Some companies would withdraw their apps from the App Store, seeing the potential for more money via third party stores and wanting to force people to use those instead of the App Store, and then people would have to choose between either having access to those apps (via the third party app stores) OR remaining in the walled garden with all of its security and privacy features.

This would make the iPhone a worse product.

You seem to have appointed yourself judge of whether the current payment, privacy, and security rules are "fair". There's a difference between not liking the rules and them being unfair.

No, I never said I was a judge of that. If they leave the App Store then it must be for some reason, and the only reason that comes to mind is probably that they’re unhappy with the contracts set by apple. sigh

 

[turbineseaplane]

Wrong. You'd like to think it'd be like that, but it won't. Some companies would withdraw their apps from the App Store, seeing the potential for more money via third party stores and wanting to force people to use those instead of the App Store, and then people would have to choose between either having access to those apps (via the third party app stores) OR remaining in the walled garden with all of its security and privacy features.

Apple can tackle that (if they wanted to) by making side loading rather cumbersome in many ways.

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Apple can tackle that (if they wanted to) by making side loading rather cumbersome in many ways.

Or just by offering competitive rules in the AppStore. If devs are leaving in droves then somethings seriously wrong with the way they’re running their business

 

[VespiYT]

Appreciate that.

Try to think of this on a longer arc.
Many of us have been iPhone users since literally the start in 2007.

We love most all things about it, but advocate for it to keep getting better.

That's how things improve!

Well I would not switch to android for just 1 feature, also I understand what you are saying, Im sure if Apple have to do this they will come up with a good way of introducing this

Exactly yeah, I’ve been a customer since 2009, and back then I had no issues with it. My desire for sideloading only grew with my expertise in software.

calling me stupid (which so far VespiYT and CarlJ have done) does nothing to further their arguments which didn’t have much validity in the first place. So yeah I’m probably done with this thread unless someone posts an actual argument - I don’t particularly enjoy chats where we’ve resorted to name calling in lieu of using our minds a bit and playing devils advocate (thinking outside the box if you will).

good luck to all involved, I know I’ll be watching these investigations with much interest and optimism. ❤️

I apologized for that and I understand you guys, check my answer to the other guy

 

[Absolute Trainwreck]

Well I would not switch to android for just 1 feature, also I understand what you are saying, Im sure if Apple have to do this they will come up with a good way of introducing this



I apologized for that and I understand you guys, check my answer to the other guy

All good. I definitely trust apple to implement stuff like that in a fair way for all their users - that’s their specialty after all. And yeah this issue is in no way major enough to entice me to switch to Android, those days are looong behind me