EU Approves Landmark Legislation to Regulate Apple and Other Big Tech Firms

[djphat2000]

Literally almost NO ONE uses Safari man. NO ONE. Even on Mac it has a tiny share of use.

I use Safari. I'm sure people have their reasons why they do or do not.
I use all of them. Edge (Beta), Firefox, Safari, and Chrome. They are all up running a bunch of tabs in each of them.
Not so many in Edge though. Only things I use directly with anything Microsoft, like Office365 etc.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Just reading the typical suggestions that Apple will leave the EU market is entertainment enough for days for sure. If Apple would take half of the business advice from the typical MR loudmouths they’d be out of business already. They will - like any big tech company affected (let’s pretend it’s just Apple affected here) play nicely with the regulations - running a business in China for decades thought them as much.

One big difference, though. China’s not attempting to alter their business model, their App Store, their messaging, etc. China’s regulations, by comparison, are FAR easier for Apple to just “adhere to” without affecting their bottom line. The EU wants more money than what China’s been asking for and it remains to be seen if Apple’s shareholders have concerns over continuing to operate in the region. Ultimately, as a public company, shareholders are the folks that are in the driver’s seat and, if they make the call, even if Apple desires to continue operating in the region, they’ll have to follow their shareholder’s direction.

 

[MacAddict1978]

I have questions about interoperability too.

When this legislation is put into effect.... will I need to have a WhatsApp account to message another WhatsApp user? I currently don't have an account. But will I be able to send someone a WhatsApp message by simply typing their WhatsApp ID into some other app?

And if I don't need a WhatsApp account... then what's the point of WhatsApp as a platform?

Once every messaging platform works with every other messaging platform... then there are no more platforms.

Send me an Instagram DM to my TikTok account using the Signal app...

What's App would have to request that Apple or Google give them the ability to be cross platform with their default messaging apps.

They will never do this in the first place.

In addition to what I already said on this, What's App or Snap Chat could also alert you that "You are messaging an IOS/Android user and What's App standard end-to-end encryption does not apply to message outside of What's App and will use default encryption for SMS" or something.

Everyone be freaking out but the reality is, if you create a secure messaging app that's encryption is its feature, YOU ARE NOT ASKING ANOTHER COMPANY TO SHARE YOUR STUFF. Snap Chat would have to want to open up their encryption to Apple and request it.... they're not doing that.

 

[Shirasaki]

Force citizens in the EU to buy iPhones via gray market.

And with no service available for EU region, no carrier support, no customer support. Who needs an iPhone by then?

 

[MacAddict1978]

I want an option that my phone is closed and just as it is now? I can no longer have that so I have less options. After regulation there are fewer options almost by definition.

So.... don't side load apps or use third party payment platforms.

Done.

 

[MacAddict1978]

That's not the point.

I'm saying it's ridiculous and unnecessary to have all those ballots.

I get it. You think it's unfair that Apple "bundles" their own services that gives them an unfair advantage over other 3rd-party services.

Alright. Maybe ProtonMail should make a phone and don't let Apple get onto the onboarding screen. Or a Spotify phone.

Of course those companies won't... but they still want equal treatment even though they didn't do any of the hard work to design hardware and an OS. They just want a free ride on top of Apple's hard work.

Or how about this...

McAfee pays Dell to include McAfee Anti-Virus on their laptops.

Alright... why doesn't ProtonMail and Spotify pay Apple to have an icon on the homescreen?

Like I said... no free rides. If those companies want a leg up... they gotta pay for it.

You miss the intention and point.

1. Companies do pay Apple... Google pays them billions to be the default search.
2. The legislation is saying Apple cannot preinstall defaults, not that they have to put competing apps on the phone by default. You as the user would have to go and download them yourself and no one is getting paid placement.
3. If Apple didn't have their own music service, you can bet your sweet ass that they would put a paid placement app for a music service on your home screen.... they did this once upon a time with an app called Google Maps before they made their own... and YouTube!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is more about playing nice with other open standards like RCS.

Every RCS compliant app that’s been set up has been just another closed loop separate app like all the other encrypted messaging standards. RCS does not provide interoperability, it’s just one way that a developer (in command of their own authentication servers) can set up encrypted messaging ON that network. WhatsApp could switch to RCS tomorrow and their network would still maintain it’s own keys just as it does today.

 

[Thebrochure]

Chalk another W in the capitalism column.

 

[ericwn]

One big difference, though. China’s not attempting to alter their business model, their App Store, their messaging, etc. China’s regulations, by comparison, are FAR easier for Apple to just “adhere to” without affecting their bottom line. The EU wants more money than what China’s been asking for and it remains to be seen if Apple’s shareholders have concerns over continuing to operate in the region. Ultimately, as a public company, shareholders are the folks that are in the driver’s seat and, if they make the call, even if Apple desires to continue operating in the region, they’ll have to follow their shareholder’s direction.

Yes sure, wake me in case that ever happens. I doubt it…
Apple also employs thousands of folks in the EU. And of course, if I remember correctly, Apple passed the encryption codes to iCloud to the Chinese authorities essentially - so it’s just the core values rather than money passed across the table to please the Chinese authorities. At the end of the day it’s a public ally traded company, they’ll do whatever ups the shareholder value.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

they did this once upon a time with an app called Google Maps before they made their own... and YouTube!

Google paid Apple to use Google Maps? And Google paid Apple to use YouTube? Just clarifying what terms I need to search on.

 

[coolfactor]

Apple simply chose to pay a $5.5 million fine every week for months in the Netherlands instead of obey orders from the Authority for Consumers and Markets (ACM) to allow third-party payment systems in Dutch dating apps.

It was a completely unreasonable situation imposed on Apple. They build up a platform over a decade, and then are expected to change how it works in a matter of weeks? There's a reason that we only see major updates once a year... because it takes MONTHS for development and testing to be completed. The Netherlands was being completely unreasonable with their timeline.

 

[Wildkraut]

Force citizens in the EU to buy iPhones via gray market.

Yeah give us our imprisonment back!

/s

 

[pastrychef]

And with no service available for EU region, no carrier support, no customer support. Who needs an iPhone by then?

Why would they have to stop their services?

There are unlocked phones.

Why do they have to end customer support?

If they are forced to sell phones that are basically the same as everyone else's, how would they turn a profit? If they can't turn a profit, why do business there?

 

[pastrychef]

Yeah give us imprisonment back!

/s

Imprisonment? What are you talking about? Who's forcing you to use an iPhone?

 

[topmounter]

I welcome this. More CHOICE is good. You don't like sideloading the don't sideload.

If you do then sideload.

While I like having the option to side-load apps on my Android phone, I'd rather not have side-loading become the rule rather than the exception and open my phone up to malicious and/or completely unvetted apps doing who knows what with my data (not that this isn't already a concern to varying degrees in the Google Play and IOS app stores).

Unintended consequences will inevitably prevail and as the go to 'tech support' resource for friends and family, I'm not looking forward to this future with reduced or eliminated guard rails. I already plead ignorance when it comes to issues with Windows.

 

[SpotOnT]

The reason why it works for email is that everyone uses the same "standards" like SMTP, MIME/HTML, DNS, SPF, DKIM, DMARC etc. And even here there are interoperability problems.

And email encryption across systems is almost non-existent.

The problem is there are very few standards in the encryption space. Everyone is using their own technology.

And that will presumably have to change correct?

If companies are required under EU law to provide interoperability in their messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services, I assume they are going to have to agree upon standards rather fast.

Well either that or leave the EU market/take the heavy fines/etc.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yes sure, wake me in case that ever happens. I doubt it…
Apple also employs thousands of folks in the EU. And of course, if I remember correctly, Apple passed the encryption codes to iCloud to the Chinese authorities essentially - so it’s just the core values rather than money passed across the table to please the Chinese authorities. At the end of the day it’s a public ally traded company, they’ll do whatever ups the shareholder value.

Apple employing people in the EU doesn’t affect if or how they offer the iPhone and services. If the shareholders direct them to NOT make the changes (because those would eat into the bottom line and would only be valuable in the least profitable region) and just remove the products that would cause fines to be assessed, they could still have employees in the EU, still have retail stores, still have Apple Geniuses that fix products, still sell Macs, and even still sell iOS accessories. Of course, EU developers would not have an EU store to deploy to, but they likely make most of their profits on the North American store, so they can just deploy there.

If the EU asked Apple to hand over the encryption codes to the EU authorities, then, just like with China (if that happened, I don’t have the link ), Apple would still do the same. And, again, that’s just another indication at how much further the EU is reaching than China ever did. And, if this reach reduces the value of the investment in the EU region, and shareholders feel their investment would be better spent focusing on the iPhone and the App Store OUTSIDE the EU, then Apple will do what ups shareholder value. Nothing against one region or another, just all about the dollars.

 

[2010mini]

Thank you EU for allowing us to truly own our devices and not be locked down!!!

And if Apple can secure the Mac, why can’t they secure the iPhone? Of course they can.

Wonderful news!!

macOS is different than iOS. PC software is different than mobile. Mobile devices hold a lot more sensitive information than PCs. Mobile devices are constantly with us and therefore present the danger of tracking individual movements to a degree PCs don’t.

As long as this bill says “gatekeepers” are no required to fix devices if/when people install malicious apps, then I have no issue

 

[djphat2000]

In addition to what I already said on this, What's App or Snap Chat could also alert you that "You are messaging an IOS/Android user and What's App standard end-to-end encryption does not apply to message outside of What's App and will use default encryption for SMS" or something.

Sounds like an unencrypted message gets sent between to different apps that would otherwise BE encrypted if you stayed within it's app, no?

 

[Small White Car]

Ah yes, the old paradox. By adding options, you take away the option to have fewer options. Does man truly have free will when he cannot freely choose to not have free will? This statement is false.

While you're enjoying your debate with Plato, maybe just don't use sideloading if you don't want to?

Sideloading??

This is about stores building user-purchase-profiles and tracking your every move in life. And probably even more than that since they'll have access to even more hardware data than ever before. This is a privacy disaster and you think "just don't side load" even begins to address that problem?

There will be no escape except going back to cash payments.

I'm glad you're happy about that but I can't even begin to guess why.

 

[2010mini]

I welcome this. More CHOICE is good. You don't like sideloading the don't sideload.

If you do then sideload.

Just hope one of your family members doesn’t sideload a malicious app that infects everything else on your home network.

 

[Wildkraut]

The Mac is "secure"? really?
Is the Mac more secure than the iPhone??
First I've heard of this...

So in other words, you’re saying that Apple is selling crap Mac hardware and crapy macOS?
A hardware and OS that should not be trusted with any kind confidential data, because it’s full of security holes? Got it!

Sounds like Apple is using Windows to develop Mac hardware.

 

[Shirasaki]

Why would they have to stop their services?

There are unlocked phones.

Why do they have to end customer support?

If they are forced to sell phones that are basically the same as everyone else's, how would they turn a profit? If they can't turn a profit, why do business there?

Why would they continue the service and offer customer support if that region gives apple no profit? You are contradicting yourself in one single comment.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'm glad you're happy about that but I can't even begin to guess why.

Because, they’re just for “whatever STICKS it to Apple”.

Taking even a cursory look deeper into their reasons will inevitably bring up contradictions. There was someone here that in one message was like “It’s good that most of the phones in the EU are Android phones” and not two messages later, was “It’s bad that so many of the phones in the EU are Android phones”.

 

[djphat2000]

Apple employing people in the EU doesn’t affect if or how they offer the iPhone and services. If the shareholders direct them to NOT make the changes (because those would eat into the bottom line and would only be valuable in the least profitable region) and just remove the products that would cause fines to be assessed, they could still have employees in the EU, still have retail stores, still have Apple Geniuses that fix products, still sell Macs, and even still sell iOS accessories. Of course, EU developers would not have an EU store to deploy to, but they likely make most of their profits on the North American store, so they can just deploy there.

If the EU asked Apple to hand over the encryption codes to the EU authorities, then, just like with China (if that happened, I don’t have the link ), Apple would still do the same. And, again, that’s just another indication at how much further the EU is reaching than China ever did. And, if this reach reduces the value of the investment in the EU region, and shareholders feel their investment would be better spent focusing on the iPhone and the App Store OUTSIDE the EU, then Apple will do what ups shareholder value. Nothing against one region or another, just all about the dollars.

And if it don't make Dollars it don't make sense.