EU Competition Chief Tells Apple Not to Use Privacy as a Shield Against Competition

[Chloros]

So given the choice to sideload....how does this affect your iphone experience if i sideload on my iphone? Choice here is the evil? Most apple users are idiots and cannot make their own choice? Well reading the posts on this thread...maybe most users aren't that smart.

 

[Grohowiak]

I think that in isolation this would be true but I don't think it would be true in reality.

Lets use one of the big drivers behind this debate as an example: Epic

Epic want this to happen so they can release their own competing App Store, they've quite literally admitted to this in court.

Another industry Epic is trying to make moves in is the PC game distribution market with their Epic Games Store and their actions over the last several years honestly worries me if it were to be translated to the mobile app space.

'Don't be afraid, you don't have to use their store' you'd say and if a competing store was the only effect this had then that would be completely true but that's not true in reality.

They've thrown millions at developers to release games solely through their Epic Games Store, games that were initially to be released through competing platforms like Steam and GOG that people actually *choose* to use.

There's a laundry list of games that you can now only get through the Epic Games Store, this isn't because they are made by Epic or their Games Store is the go-to platform for people, it's because they've paid developers for exclusivity to the detriment of users who now have zero choice to go elsewhere and use a preferred platform.

The choice isn't Steam vs GOG vs Epic, there is no choice, it's either use the Epic Games Store or you don't get to play the game.

I don't want a world where the Epics of the world start throwing money at app developers for exclusivity and turn app distribution into the same fractured and disjointed mess over several different app stores that end up giving consumers zero actual choice and only serves to force them into using platforms they otherwise wouldn't choose to use were it not for this type of behaviour.

Nobody forces you to buy a game. You just want it.
You can get any other game anywhere else.
Isn't this what pro apple eco lockdown peeps are saying? Go get android?
You got to make up your mind.

 

[falkon-engine]

I’m glad the Europeans are standing up to Apple. Americans can do the same… Give us the **choice** to side load or use other App Stores. Do not limit competition. The iPhone/iPad OSes are both based on the macOS kernel, and macOS is open to side loading and hasn’t crashed and burned due to security protections in the OS.

Therefore, users will be fine if the location of where we can install apps from is opened up.

 

[grandM]

I’m glad the Europeans are standing up to Apple. Americans can do the same… Give us the **choice** to side load or use other App Stores. Do not limit competition. The iPhone/iPad are both based on the macOS kernel, and macOS is open to side loading and hasn’t crashed and burned due to security protections in the OS. Therefore, users will be fine if the location of where we can install apps from is opened up.

I'm European.

 

[Cosmosent]

There will be increased risk, but Users should absolutely have the option of deciding for themselves which apps they want to Install & Use !

It should NOT be Apple's decision !

One of the main issues I've always had with Apple is that they think they sold us ALL a "managed solution".

It works for alot of people, but NOT all.

 

[Mousse]

I think that in isolation this would be true but I don't think it would be true in reality.

Lets use one of the big drivers behind this debate as an example: Epic

Epic want this to happen so they can release their own competing App Store, they've quite literally admitted to this in court.

Another industry Epic is trying to make moves in is the PC game distribution market with their Epic Games Store and their actions over the last several years honestly worries me if it were to be translated to the mobile app space.

'Don't be afraid, you don't have to use their store' you'd say and if a competing store was the only effect this had then that would be completely true but that's not true in reality.

They've thrown millions at developers to release games solely through their Epic Games Store, games that were initially to be released through competing platforms like Steam and GOG that people actually *choose* to use.

There's a laundry list of games that you can now only get through the Epic Games Store, this isn't because they are made by Epic or their Games Store is the go-to platform for people, it's because they've paid developers for exclusivity to the detriment of users who now have zero choice to go elsewhere and use a preferred platform.

The choice isn't Steam vs GOG vs Epic, there is no choice, it's either use the Epic Games Store or you don't get to play the game.

I don't want a world where the Epics of the world start throwing money at app developers for exclusivity and turn app distribution into the same fractured and disjointed mess over several different app stores that end up giving consumers zero actual choice and only serves to force them into using platforms they otherwise wouldn't choose to use were it not for this type of behaviour.

If those games are as lucrative enough that Epic is willing to throw millions at developers for exclusive rights, what is to prevent Apple from throwing more money at them? In a bidding war, the guy with the most $$$ usually wins. If they're not lucrative enough to make the $$$ worthwhile, Epic would hemmorage cash just to keep a developer from the Appstore. I'm not much of a businessman but I do know losing money is a stupid way of running a business.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Source? Or is this just hyperbole on your part?

Other than this forum? No, I have no source and neither does anyone on the opposite side saying the majority of iOS users want to be able to sideload apps. It’s all conjecture at this point and personal experience or preference. Not a single person I know has the least interest or even knows what “sideloading” is outside of one developer who used to jailbreak his iPhone and did so back when devs wanted to start building their own apps. I no longer speak to him, so I have no idea what his opinion is now. The loud minority on this forum will, however, try to demonstrate that this is some mainstream movement. Nice try with the “Source” bit, though…makes newbs think you’re more credible. Not.

 

[Zdigital2015]

There will be increased risk, but Users should absolutely have the option of deciding for themselves which apps they want to Install & Use !

It should NOT be Apple's decision !

One of the main issues I've always had with Apple is that they think they sold us ALL a "managed solution".

It works for alot of people, but NOT all.

Go use Windows and Android then.

Apple is far from perfect, but the walled garden is a far better scenario than the Wild West of Android.

if you’re a part of the not all, then go to a different platform.

 

[Schnegg]

I really don’t understand all the counter arguments.

Nobody will be forced to use alternative app stores so your data will not be compromised if you don’t use this option.

That what this all this is about. Giving users a choice. Just like you can basically buy every product out there in other stores at different priced and sales. Sometimes it seems people over here all have a large quantity of Apple stock. Cause all this is about profit. Nothing else.

Allowing sideloading will mean the nastiest apps like Facebook will no longer need to be in the app store and can do their shenanigans unchecked…

 

[sw1tcher]

He has smart people working for him and a background in tech. The EU, not so much

And this opinion of yours is based on?

I find it amazing that you believe Tim Cook, who's unqualified because he's not a software engineer, can have smart people advising him, but somehow Margrethe Vestager, who is not only unqualified because she's not a software engineer, but cannot possible have smart advisors either.

The cult is real.

 

[Zdigital2015]

I don’t want macOS walled up the way iOS and iPadOS are walled, but I sure as hell don’t want iOS and iPadOS made into a damn free for all by well meaning fools who think they’re helping matters. Adding an official EU title should mean little, but it does to all the wrong kinds of people (mostly politicians).

 

[McKodiak]

If Apple is forced to allow users to choose side loading and alternate app stores, they should void their warranty and anything malicious happening with their data, credentials etc. is on the user. Apple protects so much and they stand by it all.

 

[Chloros]

There will be increased risk, but Users should absolutely have the option of deciding for themselves which apps they want to Install & Use !

It should NOT be Apple's decision !

One of the main issues I've always had with Apple is that they think they sold us ALL a "managed solution".

It works for alot of people, but NOT all.

Agreed

 

[H2SO4]

There will be apps that will force you to sideload if the option is available. Don't be ignorant in thinking that there aren't a handful of popular apps that will jump at the chance to be outside of Apple's control if given the option. If sideloading is made to be an allowable option it will be impossible to stick exclusively to the App Store unless you are someone who barely uses your phone for anything.

I'd rather Android lovers not ruin my choice to run a phone OS that protects my privacy and security by not allowing sideloading.

Sideloading on iOS is the death of true freedom of choice.

No one is forced to use or develop for iOS. They do so knowing full well of Apple's requirements and restrictions. If they don't like it then they can go to Android or not develop for iOS.

No one is forced to sell in the EU. If you do sell in the EU you do so knowing full well of their requirements and restrictions. If they don’t like if then they can go to the US, Australia Asia, Africa and Russia.

 

[MikeZTM]

So given the choice to sideload....how does this affect your iphone experience if i sideload on my iphone? Choice here is the evil? Most apple users are idiots and cannot make their own choice? Well reading the posts on this thread...maybe most users aren't that smart.

Your choice is Android, not sideload in iOS.

"No sideload" is our choice and our top reason buying iOS.

This is the only way to force big names from hajacking your phone. They will force you to sideload their app if it's an option.

 

[Starscape]

Interesting that Apple is so concerned about privacy (as their excuse) that they disallow users to install apps on their iPhones/iPads outside the App Store.

Based on that precedent, guess that means Apple is not concerned with the privacy if its Mac users, since those users can install apps outside the Apple App Store.

 

[centauratlas]

"I think customers will not give up neither security nor privacy if they use another app store or if they sideload."

This is pretty laughable. Of course there is more risk to both security and privacy if you are side loading apps. That doesn't mean something bad will happen, but there is more risk - clearly.

and it is coming from a bureaucrat with a degree in economics so it is pretty worthless.

 

[B4U]

"Vestager said that privacy and security are of "paramount importance," but she does not believe that customers would be sacrificing security when sideloading an app."

Translation "I don't think creating another door at my house will make it less secure."
What kind of logic... 🤔

 

[MikeZTM]

There will be increased risk, but Users should absolutely have the option of deciding for themselves which apps they want to Install & Use !

It should NOT be Apple's decision !

One of the main issues I've always had with Apple is that they think they sold us ALL a "managed solution".

It works for alot of people, but NOT all.

So don't buy Apple.
I don't want increased risk and want to get my app though only AppStore.
Opening it up means killing the AppStore as we know Facebook and Apple is fighting and what would happens if they can offer their iOS app from the website directly.

That's the problem. It's not a simple option. It's a decision that will hurt more user. You can never have them both.

 

[centauratlas]

If Vestager actually believes that side-loaded apps aren't a serious privacy or security risk, then she has absolutely no idea what she's talking about and should not be in charge of tech regulation.

What are her qualifications? Is she a software engineer? How is her opinion anything other than an uniformed, unqualified opinion?

She doesn't have a clue. Or perhaps she does and she is just more concerned about maintaining her power and the money and control over people that comes with it than anything else.

 

[MikeZTM]

She doesn't have a clue. Or perhaps she does and she is just more concerned about maintaining her power and the money and control over people that comes with it than anything else.

They knew Apple will never open their AppStore.
They just want to pass a new bill to fine Apple/Google so they can keep their tax rate looks low but getting the money they want.

 

[One2Grift]

I’m glad the Europeans are standing up to Apple. Americans can do the same… Give us the **choice** to side load or use other App Stores. Do not limit competition. The iPhone/iPad OSes are both based on the macOS kernel, and macOS is open to side loading and hasn’t crashed and burned due to security protections in the OS.

Therefore, users will be fine if the location of where we can install apps from is opened up.

You already have a choice. Go to Android. Please do, please (oh wait you probably already do). That you feel this bizarre sense of entitlement that Apple (that is well known to wall for security) should change to accommodate your sense of choice? Sure, right, stick with that. Americans will stand up like so much of Europe, give us unvetted apps or else (laughable).

Europe is boldly standing up are they? Apple has sold their iPhone and eco this way for how long? And exactly how have they changed iPhone and eco in those many years? You may think headlines in newspapers from these, as you seem to think, pure as driven snow politicians and bureaucrats means standing up, plenty see that for what it is.
Regardless, Ain't nuttin changed yet has it? And this time next year still ain't nuttin have changed. And if it makes you Anti Apple crowd even more angry? That's like a bonus on top of the superior product and eco we already chose.

 

[WiseAJ]

There will be increased risk, but Users should absolutely have the option of deciding for themselves which apps they want to Install & Use !

It should NOT be Apple's decision !

One of the main issues I've always had with Apple is that they think they sold us ALL a "managed solution".

It works for alot of people, but NOT all.

They did sell us all a managed solution. iOS always has been and always will be a managed solution. This is a well known fact. If you didn't realize that when you bought it then that's on you.

 

[JippaLippa]

Privacy is one of the main reasons I prefer Apple to Android and Windows.
They have the right to use it as a selling point!

 

[WB2Colorado]

My fear is a major "digital goods" provider (like Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft) might just force us to do so by dropping their official Apple App Store app in favor of a side-loaded one that gives them more control over payments and customer information mining.

That hasn’t happened with the Google Play Store even though nothing is stopping them from doing so.