EU Officially Objects to Apple Limiting Third-Party Access to Apple Pay NFC Capabilities

[Beautyspin]

Looks like the EU is being dumb and has no clue. When people get hacked and have all their money stolen as a result of this dumb a** move will the EU say sorry and pay up?
No, they will just blame Apple for allowing this, in other words create a problem and then blame the company for suffering from the affects of said problem caused by the lawmakers.

You mean secure like this?

Apple Pay with Visa Hacked to Make Payments via Locked iPhones

Researchers have demonstrated that someone could use a stolen, locked iPhone to pay for thousands of dollars of goods or services, no authentication needed.

threatpost.com

 

[Beautyspin]

Really?? You obviously have not heard of something called Google and the Play Store which is RIDDLED with malware, many to do with NFC!

You heard about these?

A glut of iOS 0-days pushes their price below cost of those for Android

Top price for unpublished Android exploits reaches $2.5 million, a 25% premium over iOS.

arstechnica.com

iOS vs. Android: Which OS Is More Secure in 2022?

iOS vs. Android: Which OS is more secure? To find out, we have to consider vulnerabilities found in each operating system’s updates over the years.

clario.co

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

How about the same geniuses come to states and force Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, Marianos and many other big box stores to also open up NFC and allow people to pay with such tech as apple pay etc.

Because those geniuses don't care. Why would they. Your vote, your jurisdiction, your power, use it wisely.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

I also find it kind of ballsy from Apple to claim that they are the only ones to understand security somehow ??‍♂️

Lets face it, anything is more secure than the waiter of American restaurants storming off with your credit card to pay. Every time that happens I am like wtf. Here in Germany, they are not even allowed to touch your card, not even to place it on the handheld for you. You have to do it yourself.

Same here in Australia, they simply hold the handheld wifi connected contactless paywave terminal towards you, and you tap your credit card or phone. Every single shop, bar, restaurant, everything, has this, and every single major contactless payment method works on it. It simply blows me away how much of a backwards 3rd world country the US has become.

 

[Beautyspin]

Lot of good input here I can see. The reason some banks and financial institutions have not opened for customers to use Apple Pay has nothing to do with security. It is purely based on that the loose the data insight when allowing customers to use Apple Pay. And as we all know data is the biggest financial product for the future. This has nothing to do with secure or not secure. The banks want Apple Pay to be more open so they can keep the data about their customers them selvs. And before you say this is not true, I work in a very large bank and the strategy for the bank is to NOT use Apple Pay as long as the bank can't keep the user data for them selvs. It's just a money game.

Is there a basis for what you are saying or are you saying the first thing that comes to you?

Apple Pay security and privacy overview - Apple Support (IN)

See how your Apple Pay personal and payment information and transaction data is protected.

support.apple.com

 

[Beautyspin]

The specs should be mainly concerned about security, privacy, and ease of use, pretty much in that order. Apple shouldn’t be able to dictate terms for other companies and shouldn’t have to incorporate other companies *special* features in their software either. I don’t necessarily think that a government or banking group setting required minimum standards is a bad thing but the requirements should be primarily concerned with the app being secure and usable. If Apple (or any other company for that matter) wants to add feature ‘x’ to make their payment app stand out then as long as it is secure and doesn’t refuse to work with some other companies app then regulators should butt out.

The government does not care what features Apple pay has or does not have as long as they compliant with the financial regulations that are in place. They are concerned with Apple pay advantaging itself by giving itself access to NFC chip and denying it to the other banking/CC institutions, which are heavily regulated. If Apple continues to do so, the EU will break up Apple Pay from Apple so that it can compete as one of the vendors.

 

[Beautyspin]

I don't see how so many people attack Apple for this whilst ignoring Google and their awfully shoddy lack of security and not realise that if the EU get their way that this is what awaits Apple.
The same people complaining now will then attack Apple again for not preventing them from losing all their money in scams and attacks.

Apple Pay with Visa Hacked to Make Payments via Locked iPhones

Researchers have demonstrated that someone could use a stolen, locked iPhone to pay for thousands of dollars of goods or services, no authentication needed.

threatpost.com

Google Pay works differently. You can Bing it./s

 

[Beautyspin]

You have a choice then, use iPhone as directed and be more secure or use Android with over 15 different options for NFC and mobile wallets and be less secure.
You do not get to have it both ways, so I would not complain but then I guess some people just have to complain about anything and everything eh?

The EU will tell Apple that they have a choice, follow our rules and open up and allow other financial institutions access to the same NFC APIs that Apple Pay gets or we will break up Apple Pay from Apple so that Apple cannot benefit from advantaging Apple Pay.

You do not get to have it both ways, so I would not complain but then I guess some people just have to complain about anything and everything eh?

 

[Beautyspin]

If it were a business decision it would never happen.

The reason that we have regulation is it moderates the free markets tendency to be harmful to the greater good (regulation, like most laws, being the result of things gone acutely wrong and/or things chronically drifting into destructive or unsustainable conditions.

I do think if Apple is forced to open up NFC, in fair exchange, banks should be required to support Apple Pay on all offered credit and debit cards (ultimately accounts as cards disappear over time) and merchants should be required to accept it without limiting consumers to that merchant’s NFC-based proprietary system.

Yes, if Apple Pay is offered free of cost. Or else, why would banks or CC be forced to pay to Apple?

 

[5232152]

Let them go buy Samsung with android os there! Now they

well you’re probably right on all of that. Not at you of course but where was EU and the Apple haters at when Walmart Target Kroger Home Depot and others were telling Apple to stick it up their rear end and we are not letting you in on our system. Now, the EU which does absolutely nothing except it seems is fining American tech companies with deep pockets. Just a bunch of ingrates to say the least.

What?
Legislation is for everyone not just some companies. Of course Apple should abide by the same rules as Android. That's obvious.

Also EU is fining ameircan companies because they are the most aggressive about being anti competitive. EU has always had proper rules to follow. If you don't like them don't sell your stuff here, but EU money do taste good. A reason why top 10 countries to do business in resides within EU.

 

[seek3r]

I’ll add that the US still does not employ a keypad code to authenticate transaction. Maybe I’m still stuck in 15 years ago, but I heard Europe using the pin code and chip to authenticate.

We have the chip, but still no key entry. It’s like credit card companies welcome the skimming and stolen credit card theft. I just don’t get it.

Credit card companies literally figured us Americans were too stupid to figure out chip and PIN. I wish I were kidding. I also wish they werent probably right overall

 

[venusboy]

In that case Apple Pay should work on Google Pixel and Samsung Galaxy phones…

I know you’re being sarcastic but in one word… yes.

 

[genovelle]

Why do people defend Apple for this? Such restrictions severely limited iPhone’s capabilities. My friends are able to authenticate at the main gate simply by swiping their Android phones while iPhone users have to search for their card in their wallet every time. Popular payment systems in my country are also forced to use QR code instead of NFC because iPhones don’t have support (Apple Pay is available but nobody really uses it). As an iPhone user I’m frustrated by such software limitation and absolutely supports EU on this.

EU is off the rocker as usual. Why should our security be compromised to give access to companies that can't keep their own data safe? How many breaches have there been over the last few years with these companies. They need to stop. The reason Apple is able to dominate these markets is because we trust them, not these other so and sos.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Look at blackberry to see what voting with your wallet means. I prefer this rather than regulation. But ymmv.

Yeah, all someone would have had to do is convince the EU that it’s CRITICAL for everyone to have access to a Blackberry phone with a blackberry email address (with the same “it’s a necessity” talking points they’re using today) and they’d have regulated BB into market dominance.

I do like the idea of something better than the iPhone eventually coming out. But the laws the EU are considering putting in place will simply ensure that if something better does come out, it’ll be from one of the current market leaders.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple's cancellation of Apple Pay in Russia is scary warning to all countries. No nation wants to be at the mercy of Apple's San Francisco executive team

Yes, but when we look at all of the instances where Apple Pay has been canceled, they’ve all been related to a country that’s invading another country. Are there that many nations looking to invade their neighbors that ALSO care about the 20% marketshare (or likely less) of folks in the country that use Apple Pay?

 

[alexgsm02]

As the world is shifting towards mobile payment across the world it is only fair that the people has access to the technology on fair terms and not on the cooperates terms. Power to the people.

Sounds like the experience you’re looking for is available on Android. The “people” have the power to not buy an iPhone and choose Android instead if they don’t like how iOS works. Personally, us iPhone users like not having 10 different, mostly ****** apps for paying for stuff, and love having it all available and ready in one good, safe app that works across all Apple devices. Apple Pay being the only form of payment is probably the reason why banks even get up off their asses to get support for Apple Pay, which benefits us, users.
The law shouldn’t be telling companies how they want them to run their business, unless they’re breaking the law - which Apple isn’t.

 

[JKAussieSkater]

To be fair, from the description you linked to, the banks were asking to collude in order to prevent a new competitor from entering the market. Sounds like a reasonable decision to me.

That seems like an odd interpretation of the description I linked to… They specifically claimed the opposite, that Apple locking the NFC hardware to only Apple Pay prevents new competitors from entering the (NFC smartphone) market.

The article said this in four areas:

The banks -- including Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, National Australia Bank, and Westpac -- today announced that they have "narrowed" their application with the ACCC to focus on gaining open access to the NFC function integral to Apple Pay.

Apple currently only allows its own mobile payment system to access the NFC-hardware in its iPhone devices, which banks argue is an anti-competitive restriction that hampers consumer choice. The banks say that while Apple has a "stranglehold" on this technology, no actual competition can take place in the mobile wallet marketplace.

According to the banks, full access to NFC on iPhone devices "would enable the delivery of substantial public benefits to Australian consumers," across a variety of categories other than mobile payments, including loyalty programs, member security, and other NFC-related cases.

…the NFC-targeted application is not an attempt to delay Apple Pay's wider support in Australia as it would be offered alongside other mobile wallets -- similar to how Android supports open access to the NFC function.

 

[Beautyspin]

Yes, but when we look at all of the instances where Apple Pay has been canceled, they’ve all been related to a country that’s invading another country. Are there that many nations looking to invade their neighbors that ALSO care about the 20% marketshare (or likely less) of folks in the country that use Apple Pay?

I did not see Apple Pay pulling out of invading countries when USA is the aggressor?

American Involvement in Wars: From Colonial Times to the Present

A guide to the major wars in which Americans have fought from the colonial days to ongoing wars in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Uganda, Kenya, and Yemen.

www.thoughtco.com

 

[Beautyspin]

Sounds like the experience you’re looking for is available on Android. The “people” have the power to not buy an iPhone and choose Android instead if they don’t like how iOS works. Personally, us iPhone users like not having 10 different, mostly ****** apps for paying for stuff, and love having it all available and ready in one good, safe app that works across all Apple devices. Apple Pay being the only form of payment is probably the reason why banks even get up off their asses to get support for Apple Pay, which benefits us, users.
The law shouldn’t be telling companies how they want them to run their business, unless they’re breaking the law - which Apple isn’t.

It looks like the world feels that iPhone users need to experience the superior Android Experience. The world seems to be doing you guys a favor. You can thank them later.

 

[iOS Geek]

It looks like the world feels that iPhone users need to experience the superior Android Experience. The world seems to be doing you guys a favor. You can thank them later.

If the experience is “superior” then it should speak for itself and not require regulation because Apple would want to get in on that “superior” success. A “superior” experience wouldn’t require being forced to adopt it. A true “superior” experience would be something a company would actually WANT to implement so they get in on their piece of the pie.

If Apple users actually WANTED that “superior” experience, then Apple would probably do it because the customer demands would be overwhelming. It’s very telling that these demands…outside of governments and MacRumors posters…is almost non-existent. If these features are actually wanted by Apple users…they sure aren’t talking about it much. I’ve had an Android device…we used to use them for work. It was ****…and we don’t use them anymore due to security risks! The “favor” the world is doing is nothing worth thanking. If Apple users actually wanted these things, they’d be clamoring for it. They aren’t.

 

[Scubaman]

Possibly you would be happier with an Android device. Happy worm/virus hunting.

I wouldn’t trust the EU to specify secure door knobs, let alone my credit card via Apple Pay!! Just look what the EU has achieved with mandatory Cookie notifications and it quickly becomes apparent that bureaucrats have zero understanding of technology…

 

[I7guy]

You mean secure like this?

Apple Pay with Visa Hacked to Make Payments via Locked iPhones

Researchers have demonstrated that someone could use a stolen, locked iPhone to pay for thousands of dollars of goods or services, no authentication needed.

threatpost.com

If a theoretical vulnerability is the benchmark of security then there is no security at all in anything. Remember door locks only keep honest people out.

However, I believe this was patched.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

I wouldn’t trust the EU to specify secure door knobs, let alone my credit card via Apple Pay!! Just look what the EU has achieved with mandatory Cookie notifications and it quickly becomes apparent that bureaucrats have zero understanding of technology…

Lol, come back when you have compared the credit/debit card fraud or even identify theft between USA and EU.

 

[svish]

Apple might have to open it up. Legal troubles every week for Apple.

 

[EdT]

If the experience is “superior” then it should speak for itself and not require regulation because Apple would want to get in on that “superior” success. A “superior” experience wouldn’t require being forced to adopt it. A true “superior” experience would be something a company would actually WANT to implement so they get in on their piece of the pie.

If Apple users actually WANTED that “superior” experience, then Apple would probably do it because the customer demands would be overwhelming. It’s very telling that these demands…outside of governments and MacRumors posters…is almost non-existent. If these features are actually wanted by Apple users…they sure aren’t talking about it much. I’ve had an Android device…we used to use them for work. It was ****…and we don’t use them anymore due to security risks! The “favor” the world is doing is nothing worth thanking. If Apple users actually wanted these things, they’d be clamoring for it. They aren’t.

American users are pretty ignorant about how Western Europe and Australia, and probably Japan at the very least, handle paying by credit card at stores and restaurants.

Giving your card to someone who then walks away from your table and doesn’t bring the card back for 4 or 5 minutes is just about the most insecure thing that anyone could possibly do security wise. They could write everything down or just take a front/back picture of the card or buy something and use their phone camera to use the credit card to buy something immediately on some companies website before they bring it back.

American banking, stores, and entertainment locations like restaurants aren’t going to push for better security because it will cost them to buy more secure readers for staff to use so the customer doesn’t need to give someone their card and have them literally walk away somewhere out of sight to process the payment. Even if your restaurant bill is accurate the number and security codes could have been copied and used an hour or a day or a month later to provide distance between whoever stole your identity and the restaurant/shop where he stole it from you.