You haven't been here for decades I guess. At many places, you even pay on your own at mini terminals placed on your table.
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EU Officially Objects to Apple Limiting Third-Party Access to Apple Pay NFC Capabilities
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I was in Miami, NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego and 3 islands on Hawaii about 3 and 4 years ago. At many places the cashiers did not even understand how the pin code worked, even though their system actually supported it. I remember paying with pin and they still handed me the receipt to sign even though there wasn't even a field to sign because the receipt clearly said "PIN VERIFIED" in its place.
There goes the argument that Apple's security concerns around NFC payments are made up!.You mean secure like this?
Apple Pay with Visa Hacked to Make Payments via Locked iPhones
Researchers have demonstrated that someone could use a stolen, locked iPhone to pay for thousands of dollars of goods or services, no authentication needed.threatpost.com
Old vulnerabilities is a silly metric for platform security. It just shows what we all know, software security isn't perfect. That's why the App Store is important to iOS security.You heard about these?
A glut of iOS 0-days pushes their price below cost of those for Android
Top price for unpublished Android exploits reaches $2.5 million, a 25% premium over iOS.arstechnica.com
iOS vs. Android: Which OS Is More Secure in 2022?
iOS vs. Android: Which OS is more secure? To find out, we have to consider vulnerabilities found in each operating system’s updates over the years.clario.co
Other banking/CC institutions have access to NFC payments through the Wallet app just like the Apple Card.
What "NFC smartphone" market? It didn't exist before Apple got there! Banks wanted permission to negotiate together (aka collude) in order to prevent a brand new competitor from entering a brand new market. They just wanted to take advantage of Apple's new technology without paying Apple.
Sounds like you are taking the banks argument at face value.
Black and white bothsidesism is nothing more than misinformation.I did not see Apple Pay pulling out of invading countries when USA is the aggressor?
American Involvement in Wars: From Colonial Times to the Present
A guide to the major wars in which Americans have fought from the colonial days to ongoing wars in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Uganda, Kenya, and Yemen.www.thoughtco.com
They have contactless turned off. Walmart does so if you want contactless you have to use the Walmart app. Kroger does the same thing. You have to scan a QR code. I don’t want a bunch of different apps to pay so I don’t use them.
If the USA tells Apple to pull out of the USA, then Apple will have to do so. BUT, that’s not likely to happen. So, it’s back to countries… that have both a strong desire to invade other countries… AND… to be able to use Apple Pay. I think you’ll find that’s not a very long list of countries that have these combined desires… Perhaps 2 at the most.I did not see Apple Pay pulling out of invading countries when USA is the aggressor?
American Involvement in Wars: From Colonial Times to the Present
A guide to the major wars in which Americans have fought from the colonial days to ongoing wars in Libya, Iraq, Syria, Uganda, Kenya, and Yemen.
Not really. Apple Pay is only one of many sanctions that have been applied in Russia. Even if Apple Pay was still available, the VISA and MC’s loaded into it still wouldn’t work. And, local Mir cards STILL work even without Apple Pay. The only thing removing Apple Pay has done is just made people have to pull out their physical cards, not really a hardship.
It’s not a good point. Cancelling apple pay is a quality of life not the same as stopping oil shipments or metal shipments or food shipments. Like not being able to pick up your Armani suit when you already have clothes on your back.
Quite likely because they (most) want to push the use of their branded CC or wallet app.
It's all about sales lock-in and money.
If the USA tells Apple to pull out of the USA, then Apple will have to do so. BUT, that’s not likely to happen. So, it’s back to countries… that have both a strong desire to invade other countries… AND… to be able to use Apple Pay. I think you’ll find that’s not a very long list of countries that have these combined desires… Perhaps 2 at the most.
Not really. Apple Pay is only one of many sanctions that have been applied in Russia. Even if Apple Pay was still available, the VISA and MC’s loaded into it still wouldn’t work. And, local Mir cards STILL work even without Apple Pay. The only thing removing Apple Pay has done is just made people have to pull out their physical cards, not really a hardship.
I suspect you missed the bigger point; not about invading countries rather that Apple has that level of control to turn off whenever they deem it required leaving you with no alternative.
Personally I would like to have a few Pay options to choose from on my iPhone.
As we progress more and more to a cashless society, that level of control with no allowed alternatives is concerning.
Again, there are simple alternatives called credit cards.
Sure, but it's also an interim problem. As I've said before, I'd be surprised if NFC payment support wasn't announced next month at WWDC. Apple's been adding NFC functionality each year.
But the larger point is that many large companies have the power to shut off much more crucial infrastructure than a mobile payment app.
I would be concerned with People who only carry around a breakable cell phone without car keys or house keys or credit cards. Yes they are Playing the odds.
Cashless doesn’t mean cardless. Credit cards aren’t going away anytime soon.
Sure, but it's also an interim problem. As I've said before, I'd be surprised if NFC payment support wasn't announced next month at WWDC. Apple's been adding NFC functionality each year.
But the larger point is that many large companies have the power to shut off much more crucial infrastructure than a mobile payment app.
Maybe. It would be a decent increase in that functionality access.
Other more crucial ... of course. That isn't the point. Apple Pay / NFC is the topic.
I agree however we are seeing more and more proposals / projects where society is moving to a digital only system.
Credit / Debit Cards
Drivers License / ID
ICE
Medical records
etc...
It was certainly my point. You agreed with the claim it was scary. My larger point was that its currently not that scary considering 1) it has easily accessible alternatives and 2) it's a minor inconvenience compared to other companies that control crucial infrastructure.
A hand grenade is scary post pin. So you roll out bigger bombs. Whoop de do.
How about we stay on track (topic) and stop skittering into the underbrush.
You are talking about alternative payment options - CC - wile I was considering the ability of Apple to shut off Apple Pay at their whim as a punitive measure. It is something that will eventually have to be addressed.
Should apple have the power to control Apple Pay? Imo, it should. Apple had better use the great power it has wisely. So far it has, imo.
A hand grenade can kill people. Shutting off Apple Pay just made them reach for their wallet instead of their phone.
Considering Apple is part of a veeeeeeeeery long list of companies that have flipped the switch against the country in question…and the fact that a significant number of national governments are also part of that list…I can imagine “regulations” in this regard are far from anyone’s mind.
Personally, I find the reason that prompted this response far more concerning than what the response was. But that’s just me ?♂️
The BIGGER point is that the US government have a lot of influence over US businesses. Any country that wants to maintain Apple Pay shouldn’t do anything that the US government frowns upon. Because Google Pay has paused payments-related services as well. And, companies from NON-US companies have restricted business in the Russia as well.
If Apple Pay service is being turned off in a country, there’s a pretty good chance that they’ve got bigger problems as a LOT of other US and International company services have already been turned off!
The answer to everybody's problems is Apple's design chops.
Open NFC does have potential security issues on Android (although they are not an issue in everyday life) but this is because it was a door left open for anyone to use. Apple have the ability to design an NFC software system that is both open to other apps to use (and crucially let them also integrate with Apple Wallet which is probably one of the biggest objections for most users) whilst making it more secure.
They already did this once to digital payments systems. NFC payments existed before Apple pay but they required a secure SIM card replacement and were a pain to use. Apple came up with a hardware and software system.
We are basing our debate around the current paradigm but this can and should be shifted. Forcing Apple and WhatApp to share messaging API's? An absolute nightmare of security and vulnerability. Getting a consortium to design an open E2EE messaging standard (like how email works) for the whole mobile industry to use? Solution!
The same applies to the old sideloading chestnut. Apple could easily build a software sandbox that let users run external apps independent of system functions, solving the security issue. This could be done with a 1:1 system emulation technique in the same way. Android ironically already has a 3rd party app that does this called Island that does this very thing!
Solutions to all these problems exist outside of leaving the door open and the keys under a mat.
Open NFC does have potential security issues on Android (although they are not an issue in everyday life) but this is because it was a door left open for anyone to use. Apple have the ability to design an NFC software system that is both open to other apps to use (and crucially let them also integrate with Apple Wallet which is probably one of the biggest objections for most users) whilst making it more secure.
They already did this once to digital payments systems. NFC payments existed before Apple pay but they required a secure SIM card replacement and were a pain to use. Apple came up with a hardware and software system.
We are basing our debate around the current paradigm but this can and should be shifted. Forcing Apple and WhatApp to share messaging API's? An absolute nightmare of security and vulnerability. Getting a consortium to design an open E2EE messaging standard (like how email works) for the whole mobile industry to use? Solution!
The same applies to the old sideloading chestnut. Apple could easily build a software sandbox that let users run external apps independent of system functions, solving the security issue. This could be done with a 1:1 system emulation technique in the same way. Android ironically already has a 3rd party app that does this called Island that does this very thing!
Solutions to all these problems exist outside of leaving the door open and the keys under a mat.
Yes yes. Too simple. But in essence, EU laws are more consumer protection centric.