EU to Close Antitrust Investigation into Apple's Browser Choice Screen

[Stuwil]

The DMA is a boneheaded attempt by the EU force competition by giving away intellectual property. Which company who may want to do business in the EU, where they haven’t done business before, would want that?

It’s not about forcing competition
Why the DMA was created

 

[I7guy]

It’s not about forcing competition
Why the DMA was created

In my opinion it’s about creating completion by giving others intellectual property away.

 

[Stuwil]

This is a nonsensical argument!

If my city passed a law saying "anyone running a marathon in the city has to do so wearing a 25 pound backpack" - it would make it much harder to break the world record for the marathon in my city. That would be true even if no one in any other city broke the marathon record since the backpack law was passed.

What you're essentially doing here is saying - "the backpack law doesn't make it harder to break the world record, because it hasn't been broken anywhere else since the backpack law came into effect. If the backpack law actually makes it harder to break the world record in this city, show me where the world record has been broken in a city without the backpack law. You can't, so therefore that is proof the law doesn't make it harder to break the world record."

again it’s very simple to grasp
Why the DMA was created by the EU
And it’s not difficult to understand

Can you point to any other country in the world the iOS & android has a competing platform in?

 

[surferfb]

again it’s very simple to grasp
Why the DMA was created by the EU
And it’s not difficult to understand

Can you point to any other country in the world the iOS & android has a competing platform in?

There isn't one with a meaningful competitor outside of China (at least that I'm aware of).

Again, that doesn't meant the DMA actually is doing anything to address this lack of competition. If that is the goal of the legislation, then the EU's regulators are worse at their jobs than it looks like. And given cookie popups, Crowdstrike, and browser choice screens, it already looks like they're really bad at their jobs.

 

[Stuwil]

In my opinion it’s about creating completion by giving others intellectual property away.

if you can point to any competition to iOS & android anywhere in the world
Then that will give you the answer as to why the DMA was created

 

[Stuwil]

There isn't one with a meaningful competitor outside of China (at least that I'm aware of).

Again, that doesn't meant the DMA actually is doing anything to address this lack of competition. If that is the goal of the legislation, then the EU's regulators are worse at their jobs than it looks like. And given cookie popups, Crowdstrike, and browser choice screens, it already looks like they're really bad at their jobs.

exactly that’s why it exists because there is no competitor anyway in the world apart from china

And the is the exact same reason as to why there is a start screen so you can pick your search engine

It’s not difficult

 

[surferfb]

exactly that’s why it exists because there is no competitor anyway in the world apart from china

And the is the exact same reason as to why there is a start screen so you can pick your search engine

It’s not difficult

Well then I'd argue the EU is really bad at their jobs. "There isn't enough competition, so rather than address that, let's make it harder for a third option to come in and compete." Great job everyone.

 

[Stuwil]

Well then I'd argue the EU is really bad at their jobs. "There isn't enough competition, so let's make it harder for third parties to come in and compete." Great job everyone.

Ok if the EU is really bad at their jobs
Then where is the competition from any where else in the world for iOS & android

 

[surferfb]

Ok if the EU is really bad at their jobs
Then where is the competition from any where else in the world for iOS & android

Again, if I pass a law that makes doing something hard even more difficult than it already is, the fact that doing it elsewhere is still hard doesn't mean the law doesn't make it even more difficult.

To use a final analogy, imagine the EU thinks there aren't enough electric cars, passes a regulation that claims will increase the adaptation of electric cars, but in actuality puts additional regulations that only apply to companies that build electric cars and disincentives gas car companies from transitioning to electric. You are pointing at the rest of the world and saying "the rest of the world has a lot of gas cars, and doesn't have our regulation that only apply to electric car companies, so clearly our regulation doesn't make it harder and more expensive to build electric cars." It's a logical fallacy.

Look we're going around in circles, so I'm disengaging for good this time. Have a nice rest of your day

 

[Stuwil]

Again, if I pass a law that makes doing something even more difficult than it already is, the fact that doing it elsewhere is still hard doesn't mean the law doesn't make it more difficult.

To use a final analogy, imagine the EU thinks there aren't enough electric cars, but then passes a regulation that claims will increase the adaptation of electric cars, but in actuality puts additional regulations that only apply to companies that build electric cars. You are pointing at the rest of the world and saying "the rest of the world has a lot of gas cars, and doesn't have our regulation that only apply to electric car companies, so clearly our regulation doesn't make it harder and more expensive to build electric cars." It's a logical fallacy.

Look we're going around in circles, so I'm disengaging for good this time. Have a nice rest of your day

The reason you have given all of that is because you can’t actually point to any competition for iOS & android anywhere in the world apart from china & as a consequence of that then the EU has decided to bring in the DMA because they don’t have competition anywhere in the world
And that will not realistically change any time soon because of how the smartphone market is in the western world.

This is the exact same as the regulation for the search engine screen because Google essentially don’t have competition then they have had to do this to try & force competition on them.

 

[I7guy]

if you can point to any competition to iOS & android anywhere in the world
Then that will give you the answer as to why the DMA was created

The DMA is terrible legislation, imo, and will provide the EU citizenry over time with a mediocre tech experience and lots of competition off Apples back.

If you can’t see why can you point to a large company who would want to engage in the EU only to become a gatekeeper. The EU council knows after this law that’s it for the EU, so they went full tilt.

 

[Stuwil]

The DMA is terrible legislation, imo, and will provide the EU citizenry over time with a mediocre tech experience and lots of competition off Apples back.

If you can’t see why can you point to a large company who would want to engage in the EU only to become a gatekeeper. The EU council knows after this law that’s it for the EU, so they went full tilt.

If the DMA is such terrible legislation by the EU & will create a mediocre tech experience
Then can you point to a company worldwide that currently competes with iOS & android anywhere in the world right now?
If you can then I will accept it’s a terrible legislation

can you name a large company that makes a mobile OS that’s not apple & google that this law would affect?

 

[I7guy]

If the DMA is such terrible legislation by the EU & will create a mediocre tech experience
Then can you point to a company worldwide that currently competes with iOS & android anywhere in the world right now?
If you can then I will accept it’s a terrible legislation

can you name a large company that makes a mobile OS that’s not apple & google that this law would affect?

I guess neither wants to answer either others questions, understandably so. Both are hypotheticals. But what is not hypothetical is the “what’s mine is yours “ mandate of the DMA.

The opinion that this draconian legislation was created because the EU knew it would be the last time a major company would do business in the EU after these laws went into effect I feel is spot on.

So again, can you name some large international corporate entities who would embrace the gatekeeper philosophy of the EU who is in tech?

 

[Stuwil]

I guess neither wants to answer either others questions, understandably so. Both are hypotheticals. But what is not hypothetical is the “what’s mine is yours “ mandate of the DMA.

The opinion that this draconian legislation was created because the EU knew it would be the last time a major company would do business in the EU after these laws went into effect I feel is spot on.

So again, can you name some large international corporate entities who would embrace the gatekeeper philosophy of the EU who is in tech?

You keep saying the DMA is bad for competition
What competition does iOS & android have anywhere in the world to make it a bad legislation just name their competition
And i will accept your correct in what your saying

there is nothing wrong with creating a level playing field

Yes I can give you a name huawei they are a large international technology company who would gladly embrace the DMA

 

[I7guy]

You keep saying the DMA is bad for competition
What competition does iOS & android have anywhere in the world to make it a bad legislation just name their competition
And i will accept your correct in what your saying

there is nothing wrong with creating a level playing field

Yes I can give you a name huawei they are a large international technology company who would gladly embrace the DMA

Well then, Huawei would embrace the DMA by developing their own operating system that would t be iOS or android and going into the fray. And then they would be quite alright with being labeled a gatekeeper and essentially providing free access to the intellectual property and all the DMA requires.

That would create a level playing field. Of course they would have to get people to buy their phones with the new operating system.

 

[Stuwil]

Well then, Huawei would embrace the DMA by developing their own operating system that would t be iOS or android and going into the fray. And then they would be quite alright with being labeled a gatekeeper and essentially providing free access to the intellectual property and all the DMA requires.

That would create a level playing field. Of course they would have to get people to buy their phones with the new operating system.

Ok but that doesn’t explain what’s actually wrong with the DMA & how it stops competition when iOS & android don’t have competition anywhere in the world apart from china

 

[turbineseaplane]

With respect, I think everyone predicting what will or will not happen due to the DMA is leaning in a bit too much on prognostication

This thread is making a good case for a time based lock

Things are just going in circles

Retracted - my apologies - please see post #394

 

[I7guy]

Ok but that doesn’t explain what’s actually wrong with the DMA & how it stops competition when iOS & android don’t have competition anywhere in the world apart from china

That's already been answered in previous posts.

With respect, I think everyone predicting what will or will not happen due to the DMA is leaning in a bit too much on prognostication

This thread is making a good case for a time based lock

Things are just going in circles

Every single thread with the DMA goes around in circles at some point. It's a contentious and divisive talking point.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Edit - wasn't my intention to shut down any debate for those still enjoying

My apologies, please carry on

 

[Stuwil]

That's already been answered in previous posts

Because there is no evidence that the DMA will stop competition in regards to a company producing a new mobile OS and competing with iOS & android

Now as you are claiming that this harms competition then going forward we should naturally see competition appear outside the EU to challenge both companies going forward

 

[Stuwil]

Edit - wasn't my intention to shut down any debate for those still enjoying

My apologies, please carry on

If there was actual competition instead of just IOS & android in the world then the DMA wouldn’t have been created

And as a consequence of that this why your seeing Apple getting regulated in the EU because there is no 3rd option available & if there was then this wouldn’t be happening full stop because then there would be 3 players in the market so then Apple wouldn’t come under so much scrutiny for their business practices

This is why the EU have mandated for a start screen for the search engine because google doesn’t have any competition whatsoever because of lack of competition in the smartphone market it’s that simple

 

[Stuwil]

Again, if I pass a law that makes doing something hard even more difficult than it already is, the fact that doing it elsewhere is still hard doesn't mean the law doesn't make it even more difficult.

To use a final analogy, imagine the EU thinks there aren't enough electric cars, passes a regulation that claims will increase the adaptation of electric cars, but in actuality puts additional regulations that only apply to companies that build electric cars and disincentives gas car companies from transitioning to electric. You are pointing at the rest of the world and saying "the rest of the world has a lot of gas cars, and doesn't have our regulation that only apply to electric car companies, so clearly our regulation doesn't make it harder and more expensive to build electric cars." It's a logical fallacy.

Look we're going around in circles, so I'm disengaging for good this time. Have a nice rest of your day

If the DMA is such a bad peace of legislation and it harms competition
Then obliviously based on your logic then we will naturally see a company launch a competing mobile OS outside of the EU as a consequence of this legislation

 

[I7guy]

Because there is no evidence that the DMA will stop competition in regards to a company producing a new mobile OS and competing with iOS & android

There is some opinions on the matter. There is no evidence for anything in this discussion only opinions.

Now as you are claiming that this harms competition then going forward we should naturally see competition appear outside the EU to challenge both companies going forward

No, claiming competition is dead in the EU due to the DMA. The eu will bleed Apple until they have enough. They’ll pack up go home and the citizenry will then use haewei.

 

[Stuwil]

There is some opinions on the matter. There is no evidence for anything in this discussion only opinions.

No, claiming competition is dead in the EU due to the DMA. The eu will bleed Apple until they have enough. They’ll pack up go home and the citizenry will then use haewei.

It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that in mobile you only have 2 choices between iOS & android anywhere in the world apart from china
So that is why the DMA was created because they don’t have competition.

This is the exact same reason as to why there is a start screen so you can pick your search engine because Google essentially doesn’t have competition apart from in china

If as you claim that the EU will bleed Apple until they have had enough then why have they not left china then

You do understand that huawei is actually restricted in some countries in Europe

 

[I7guy]

It’s not an opinion it’s a fact that in mobile you only have 2 choices between iOS & android anywhere in the world apart from china
So that is why the DMA was created because they don’t have competition.

This is the exact same reason as to why there is a start screen so you can pick your search engine because Google essentially doesn’t have competition apart from in china

If as you claim that the EU will bleed Apple until they have had enough then why have they not left china then

You do understand that huawei is actually restricted in some countries in Europe

It’s pretty much a fact the DMA killed any meaningful competition in the EU. Rather than sponsor up and coming tech it chose to regulate existing tech with draconian regulations thereby killing the chance of any meaningful competition in the eu.