EU to Close Antitrust Investigation into Apple's Browser Choice Screen

[turbineseaplane]

The DMA imposes a regulatory burden so heavy imo I can’t see any major outside company wanting to do business in their EU.

Have there been a lot of businesses pulling out because of the DMA?

I haven’t been following it closely.

 

[Stuwil]

Again, that doesn't agree with the facts on the ground. Apple doesn't reach the majority of the Chinese market because they are too expensive and the government is actively promoting using its competitors as a point of national pride. It has nothing to do with the fact that there is "competition."


And why are you arguing that Apple and Google don't compete against each other? And if I'm wrong and you are right and the "innovation" of the additional competition in China is why Apple is fighting for second place, what is your explanation for why that isn't forcing Apple to up its game? Again, China is its second-most important market. Shipment misses in China directly correlate to lower stock prices. So if you are correct and Apple is losing out because their products are worse there compared to the competition, why aren't they doing anything about it?

ok have you even seen the latest huawei mobile phone they sell in china & the technology that comes in it?
If huawei was given an advantage as you say then why aren’t they number one
It is possible they actually make really good phones

Because it’s simple business
The reason is this
it fundamentally doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things to Apple because they doing well in most places worldwide & china is just one country.

 

[Stuwil]

The DMA imposes a regulatory burden so heavy imo I can’t see any major outside company wanting to do business in their EU.

Google has 96% of the market today. And they didn’t get there by quashing the competition illegally. They got there through innovation. In other words they earned it. This “choice” the EU mandates is lipstick on a pig and benefits no one and google will win anyway.

If the DMA imposes a regulatory burden so heavy
Then can you name another country that has a major mobile OS that competes with Google & Apple outside the EU?

Well they did squash the competition because chrome is pre installed on over 3.5 billion devices and the only country that they are not number 1 is in china.

The reason for the start screen on iOS is because of Google’s dominance and because currently it’s very unlikely that anyone will realistically challenge it
So that is why it’s be regulated this way

 

[I7guy]

Have there been a lot of businesses pulling out because of the DMA?

I haven’t been following it closely.

IMO, the EU has made its bed in a not so good way with the DMA. Change, good or bad, happen and/or show up immediately.

 

[I7guy]

If the DMA imposes a regulatory burden so heavy
Then can you name another country that has a major mobile OS that competes with Google & Apple outside the EU?

One thing has nothing to do with another. Can you name one company who is nipping at the heels of the EU to come in and be regulated? It’s an anti-business climate that has been created.

Well they did squash the competition because chrome is pre installed on over 3.5 billion devices and the only country that they are not number 1 is in china.

They (the EU) did shoot themselves in the foot with these draconian regulations.

The reason for the start screen on iOS is because of Google’s dominance and because currently it’s very unlikely that anyone will realistically challenge it
So that is why it’s be regulated this way

Google has an across the board percentage of about 96%. It’s a look good and do nothing requirement and just makes it more difficult for the 96% who don’t want to change it.

 

[Stuwil]

One thing has nothing to do with another. Can you name one company who is nipping at the heels of the EU to come in and be regulated? It’s an anti-business climate that has been created.

They (the EU) did shoot themselves in the foot with these draconian regulations.

Google has an across the board percentage of about 96%. It’s a look good and do nothing requirement and just makes it more difficult for the 96% who don’t want to change it.

You said the dma would kill competition in the EU and I asked if that’s the case then can you name another mobile os from any other country that is not iOS or android

 

[I7guy]

You said the dma would kill competition in the EU and I asked if that’s the case then can you name another mobile os from any other country that is not iOS or android

The DMA is a competition killer in the EU. It’s irrelevant what is happening outside of the EU.

 

[Stuwil]

The DMA is a competition killer in the EU. It’s irrelevant what is happening outside of the EU.

But it is relevant because you said that the DMA is a competition killer in the EU and I’ve asked you if that’s the case then can you point to another mobile OS outside the EU that is not iOS or android if it’s a competition killer
I’m patiently waiting

You said that the EU will shoot its shelf in the foot with these draconian regulations if that’s the case then can you explain outside of the EU what the most popular search engine currently is in the world

 

[I7guy]

But it is relevant because you said that the DMA is a competition killer in the EU and I’ve asked you if that’s the case then can you point to another mobile OS outside the EU that is not iOS or android if it’s a competition killer
I’m patiently waiting

It’s not relevant and therefore immaterial. The DMA is an apple tax essentially. An attempt to give apple assets for free to all who ask. Who do you think will want to invest resources into the EU to challenge apple. The answer is nobody.

You said that the EU will shoot its shelf in the foot with these draconian regulations if that’s the case then can you explain outside of the EU what the most popular search engine currently is in the world

I said the EU has already shot itself in the foot and change good/bad takes a while to make itself known.

 

[Stuwil]

It’s not relevant and therefore immaterial. The DMA is an apple tax essentially. An attempt to give apple assets for free to all who ask. Who do you think will want to invest resources into the EU to challenge apple. The answer is nobody.

I said the EU has already shot itself in the foot and change good/bad takes a while to make itself known.

Again if DMA is so bad then who is the competition for iOS & android outside the EU?

Well if as many have said & the start screen for search engines on iOS is a waste of time then ultimately there will be no issue then
Because everyone will naturally pick chrome anyway

 

[I7guy]

Again if DMA is so bad then who is the competition for iOS & android outside the EU?

It’s not if the DMA is bad, the DMA is bad.

Well if as many have said & the start screen for search engines on iOS is a waste of time then ultimately there will be no issue then
Because everyone will naturally pick chrome anyway

Well it’s a waste of time for millions of people. Bad regulations, time waster, competition killer, the DMA is.

 

[surferfb]

Again if DMA is so bad then who is the competition for iOS & android outside the EU?

Well if as many have said & the start screen for search engines on iOS is a waste of time then ultimately there will be no issue then
Because everyone will naturally pick chrome anyway

We're not saying the DMA is the reason there isn't competition - we're saying the DMA isn't going to do one thing to increase competition, and in fact will make it harder for third OSes to come in and compete.

To put it another way: what specifically do you think the DMA does that will make it more likely a competitor to Apple and Google arises in the EU?

 

[Stuwil]

It’s not if the DMA is bad, the DMA is bad.

Well it’s a waste of time for millions of people. Bad regulations, time waster, competition killer, the DMA is.

Mate it’s not difficult if the DMA is a competition killer then just name one company that competes with iOS & android outside the EU
And I will accept your answer

 

[Stuwil]

We're not saying the DMA is the reason there isn't competition - we're saying the DMA isn't going to do one thing to increase competition, and in fact will make it harder for third OSes to come in and compete.

To put it another way: what specifically do you think the DMA does that will make it more likely a competitor to Apple and Google arises in the EU?

if you think the DMA will make it harder for a third OS then please enlighten me of another country that currently has a 3rd OS outside the EU that competes with iOS & google

 

[I7guy]

Mate it’s not difficult if the DMA is a competition killer then just name one company that competes with iOS & android outside the EU
And I will accept your answer

There will never be legit competition in the EU. Its not relevant what happens outside of the EU. You’re debating tactic is not logical.

 

[Stuwil]

There will never be legit competition in the EU. It’s not relevant what happens outside of the EU. You’re debating tactic is not logical.

If there will never be legit competition in the EU because of the DMA & it harms competition
Then it will be easy for you to give me an example of what competition exists outside the EU for iOS & android
If it’s such a competition killer

 

[surferfb]

if you think the DMA will make it harder for a third OS then please enlighten me of another country that currently has a 3rd OS outside the EU that competes with iOS & google

My point is that the DMA will make it harder for a third OS to emerge; whatever is or isn’t happening in the rest of the world has no bearing on that argument. Again, can you point to one thing the DMA does that you think will make it more likely we get a third OS?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

So according to yourself
Then you’re saying the EU are worse than china because of regulation

Not just according to me, according to people around the world that are concerned about the EU not excelling in their own solutions, like China has. Like the US has. The DMA is a desperate response to a situation that need not have happened in the first place. If a EU member company is good at some tech revolution, they should be able to stay in that EU member contry, employing German citizens, paying German property taxes and enriching their German communities. They shouldn’t have to relocate to another country because other EU members don’t like that they’ve found success.

The EU’s catastrophic approach to tech – GIS Reports

The differences between the EU and the U.S. when it comes to regulating big tech will have a profound long-term impact.

www.gisreportsonline.com

 

[Stuwil]

My point is that the DMA will make it harder for a third OS to emerge; whatever is or isn’t happening in the rest of the world has no bearing on that argument. Again, can you point to one thing the DMA does that you think will make it more likely we get a third OS?

If the DMA will make it harder for a third OS to emerge in the EU
Then it will be easy for you to point out if iOS & android has competition anywhere else in the world because they don’t have the DMA

There is a simple answer as to why the EU has made The DMA
And it’s not about getting income from Apple

 

[Stuwil]

Not just according to me, according to people around the world that are concerned about the EU not excelling in their own solutions, like China has. Like the US has. The DMA is a desperate response to a situation that need not have happened in the first place. If a EU member company is good at some tech revolution, they should be able to stay in that EU member contry, employing German citizens, paying German property taxes and enriching their German communities. They shouldn’t have to relocate to another country because other EU members don’t like that they’ve found success.

The EU’s catastrophic approach to tech – GIS Reports

The differences between the EU and the U.S. when it comes to regulating big tech will have a profound long-term impact.

www.gisreportsonline.com

Hold on did you just say that china excels at technology & why is that?

There is a simple reason why the dma exists & it’s not to do with fleecing Apple for money

 

[I7guy]

If there will never be legit competition in the EU because of the DMA & it harms competition
Then it will be easy for you to give me an example of what competition exists outside the EU for iOS & android
If it’s such a competition killer

The two don’t follow. The DMA restricts competition due to its regulations. It makes my stuff your stuff without any compensation. Companies are not going to want to enter in that “agreement”, imo. It has nothing to do about which hypothetical company challenges any incumbent in the EU.

 

[I7guy]

Hold on did you just say that china excels at technology & why is that?

There is a simple reason why the dma exists & it’s not to do with fleecing Apple for money

The DMA is a boneheaded attempt by the EU force competition by giving away intellectual property. Which company who may want to do business in the EU, where they haven’t done business before, would want that?

 

[Stuwil]

The two don’t follow. The DMA restricts competition due to its regulations. It makes my stuff your stuff without any compensation. Companies are not going to want to enter in that “agreement”, imo. It has nothing to do about which hypothetical company challenges any incumbent in the EU.

Just think about it I’ve asked you to give me a competing mobile OS outside the EU that competes with iOS & android and you have skirted around the question
Now why do you think the DMA was created by the EU

 

[surferfb]

If the DMA will make it harder for a third OS to emerge in the EU
Then it will be easy for you to point out if iOS & android has competition anywhere else in the world because they don’t have the DMA

This is a nonsensical argument!

If my city passed a law saying "anyone running a marathon in the city has to do so wearing a 25 pound backpack" - it would make it much harder to break the world record for the marathon in my city. That would be true even if no one in any other city broke the marathon record since the backpack law was passed.

What you're essentially doing here is saying - "the backpack law doesn't make it harder to break the world record, because it hasn't been broken anywhere else since the backpack law came into effect. If the backpack law actually makes it harder to break the world record in this city, show me where the world record has been broken in a city without the backpack law. You can't, so therefore that is proof the law doesn't make it harder to break the world record."

What we are saying is "the DMA will make it harder for a third OS to arise in the EU, and if that's what the EU wants they wrote the law terribly" and your response is "there isn't a third OS elsewhere, therefore the DMA doesn't make it harder for a third OS to arise." Which doesn't logically follow.

 

[I7guy]

Just think about it I’ve asked you to give me a competing mobile OS outside the EU that competes with iOS & android and you have skirted around the question
Now why do you think the DMA was created by the EU

You haven’t answered my questions about who would want to enter into a business relationship in the EU? I can’t see any company who could be a gatekeeper want to. But maybe you have a different opinion.