EU to Target Apple Maps and Apple Ads Next

[WarmWinterHat]

There is really no end to the EU’s tyranny. Apple should just pull out of the market if they’re not going to be allowed to innovate.

Openness > innovation, and innovation =/= lock-in. Never has.

And yes, they absolutely should pull out... along with Brazil, and India, and South Korea, and Japan, and Australia, and any other countries that are requiring them to open up.

...or Apple, and every other company, tech or otherwise, should realize that it's business practices begin and end at national borders. No exceptions.

 

[Ubuntu]

There is really no end to the EU’s tyranny. Apple should just pull out of the market if they’re not going to be allowed to innovate.

That's commercial suicide, dude. Also, innovation != gatekeeping.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

TBH, I would not mind this if it means that Apple Maps is better in the EU. I love to use my Apple Watch for directions but sometimes Apple Maps will just suggest the most ridiculous routes. Sure, it doesn't help that our cities are not laid out in nice grids like many US cities, but still...

Ads, maybe, but any decisions on Apple Maps are surely just going to benefit Google, no?

The EU Commission is involved. It will absolutely mean Apple Maps is worse in the EU (unless the commission decides, like with iMessage due to its similarly low usage, to exclude it from designation). I have reason to believe they might because Vestager isn’t there anymore, but it remains to be seen.

Vestager famously designated devices that DIDN’T meet the criteria as gatekeepers “Just Because”, but that hasn’t happened again since she’s gone.

 

[ofarlig]

Maps is an excellent app and Apple has been improving it for literally a decade. And the idea Maps doesn't have competition is insane.

Also, this has nothing to do with competition. The EC is desperately trying to prop up (really conjure up) European tech companies through massively overbearing regulation. It they really cared about consumers or privacy or competition they wouldn't be laser-focused on Apple to the near-exclusion of actually harmful companies like Meta.

Yes it is so great to not be able to find any place that opened within the past 6 months in the app so you cannot add a calendar event with a restaurant visit, meanwhile it comes up within a day on Google Maps. Great that there’s no proper rating system for businesses within the app so if you are looking for where to go you are out of luck. It’s also great that Apple Maps doesn’t seem to understand the concept of one way streets when navigating with Carplay.

So there’s clearly not enough competition when Apple forces the user to use Maps for certain tasks. If there were enough competition Apple would probably fix their Maps app because this cannot be their best effort.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Sadly I think it's better than the path Apple has been taking. I would much rather that politicians stay out of it as often they don't know enough to make informed decisions (e.g. cookies...) but I think there is a need for regulation when Apple is both the gatekeeper and has a commercial interest. I just don't know if Ads/Maps qualify in this case tbh.

If the EU was in control, they’d do what they’ve done with every other world class tech company, regulate them out of existence.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That's commercial suicide, dude. Also, innovation != gatekeeping.

Gatekeeping has a novel definition in the EU which essentially means “company not based in the EU that’s popular among EU citizens”. And, since there are NO innovative companies WITHIN the EU (EU regulators cannot abide neither innovation, nor success), then the EU’s definition of “gatekeeper” does literally mean “innovation”.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Openness > innovation, and innovation =/= lock-in. Never has.

I’d say this is true and likely why Apple’s marketshare is so low worldwide. Why the EU would want to increase Apple’s marketshare is beyond me, but I’ve no doubt that 10 years from now, the smartphone OS competition in the EU will still be led by US companies. So much for increasing competition.

 

[CharlesShaw]

Dear Apple, How are you? We are fine. Please send money. Thank you.

 

[Ubuntu]

Gatekeeping has a novel definition in the EU which essentially means “company not based in the EU that’s popular among EU citizens”. And, since there are NO innovative companies WITHIN the EU (EU regulators cannot abide neither innovation, nor success), then the EU’s definition of “gatekeeper” does literally mean “innovation”.

No, we just have more regulation in the EU and arguably more civil protection than in the US. I think either approach has it advantages and disadvantages but I think the issue here is that the two major smartphone platforms belong to American companies and it’s risky to depend on that - especially in the current political climate where the US and EU aren’t exactly best friends anymore.

 

[wanha]

The EC doesn’t care about privacy, they only care about padding European companies’ bottom lines.

do you have any proof to back that statement?

 

[wanha]

There is really no end to the EU’s tyranny. Apple should just pull out of the market if they’re not going to be allowed to innovate.

it never seizes to amaze me that there are actual people out there that believe regulation equals tyranny

 

[vantelimus]

Neither Apple Maps nor Apple Ads satisfy the DMA's definition. There's no chokepoint, no monopolistic control, no forced intermediation, no barriers to switching, no sense in which they are core platform services.

Google Maps dominates 70-85% in Europe depending on country. There is zero cost to switch from Apple Maps to Google Maps (or Waze or HERE or TomTom, or OpenStreetMap, or dozens of other more niche maps). Apple doesn't lock developers into only using the Apple MapKit API. In fact, third party apps overwhelming use Google Maps SDK. It's not marketplace or an intermediary. Treating it as a core platform service is absurd.

Apple Ads are below 2% of the ads shown on iOS in most European markets. It isn't a cross-publisher ad delivery system like Google and Meta. Apple App Tracking transparency limits the amount of targeting Apple can do, limits that Google and Meta don't have. Developers don't have to use Apple Ads, and numbers show they don't often. Investigating Apple Ads as a gatekeeper requires redefining a gate to include a tiny low-influence ad slot. What's next the Clock App? Emoji Rendering?

The inescapable conclusion is that the EU Commission is corrupt.

 

[Corefile]

We're lucky to have the EU fighting for us.

 

[switz]

I personally knew a few politicians back in Indiana that started out middle class and retired as multi-million dollar folks with huge farms. No matter how hard one tried the math, the number of years served times published salary never seemed to equal their end result. Wonder how that happened?

I am sure similar stores exist around the world.

I wonder if that story altered political out comes?

 

[I7guy]

The irony of each of Apple's services being reviewed to make sure they meet the rules is delicious. 🍿

The irony of each of Apple's services being reviewed to make sure they meet the rules is ridiculous.

 

[I7guy]

The EU isn’t arguing to expand tracking, just that privacy measures must not be weaponised by dominant platforms.

In other words, here comes a massive loss of privacy in the EU.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Regulators now have 45 working days to decide whether either service should formally join Apple's existing list of designated platforms. If confirmed, Apple would then have six months to bring each service into full DMA compliance.

Guys -- there is nothing actually happening yet here.

There's really no need for another EU outrage thread based upon this situation at this time.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

it never seizes to amaze me that there are actual people out there that believe regulation equals tyranny

It never ceases to amaze me that there are actual people out there who believe Apple needs to be regulated. I thought this was a pro-Apple site!

 

[CloneBB]

I should have clarified - the haptic feedback for left/right is what I'd love to see in other maps apps. It's been a while since I tried but I assume that's still just for Apple Maps?

EDIT: just tried it and it works with Google maps - kinda. Have to open the watch app each time and it only seems to do the haptics if the screen is on…

I can’t stand Google Maps or the EU.

 

[jarman92]

do you have any proof to back that statement?

Do you think that's a statement of fact?

 

[jarman92]

meanwhile it comes up within a day on Google Maps.

The fact that you can just use Google if you have so many issues with Apple just destroys your entire argument.

Yes it is so great to not be able to find any place that opened within the past 6 months in the app so you cannot add a calendar event with a restaurant visit,

Not sure what you're talking about, you can easily add a calendar event from Google, OpenTable, Yelp, etc.

Great that there’s no proper rating system for businesses within the app so if you are looking for where to go you are out of luck.

100% wrong. Apple integrates with Yelp, which has extensive ratings and reviews that date from long before Google started allowing them.

It’s also great that Apple Maps doesn’t seem to understand the concept of one way streets when navigating with Carplay.

Have literally never had this problem. But again, feel free to use Google Maps if you have such an issue with Apple.

 

[avro707]

Don’t see the need for this, I use other map apps already, usually Google or Waze.

That would be if Apple didn’t keep breaking CarPlay connections with their beta iOS versions.

 

[Mousse]

The AppStore is a gatekeeper. I agree. Safari is a gatekeeper? What were they smoking, because I want to try some. Safari ain't the only browser available for iOS. The AppStore was the only appstore.

Now they're going after Apple Maps and Apple Ads? There are plenty of alternatives to Apple Maps: Google Maps, Waze, Maps.me, citymapper etc. Apple Ads a gatekeeper? If that's the only way you're allowed to advertise on iOS then, I'll agree. I doubt that it is. Every free app seems like they're ad supported.

 

[ofarlig]

The fact that you can just use Google if you have so many issues with Apple just destroys your entire argument.



Not sure what you're talking about, you can easily add a calendar event from Google, OpenTable, Yelp, etc.



100% wrong. Apple integrates with Yelp, which has extensive ratings and reviews that date from long before Google started allowing them.



Have literally never had this problem. But again, feel free to use Google Maps if you have such an issue with Apple.

But I can’t use Google Maps all the time because Apple forces the user to use Apple Maps in certain situations, the built in calendar app is one example and spotlight search is another. Changing the default navigation app doesn’t seem to change this.

Over here Apple doesn’t integrate with Yelp from anything I’ve seen, for some places they use TheFork or Tripadvisor which is poor quality reviews for restaurants but many just have no ratings at all except for Apples useless thumb up or down (and that is if the business even exists on Apple Maps which is far from given).

 

[whatnot]

The European Commission has now confirmed that Apple Maps and Apple Ads satisfy the user-base thresholds that mandate a review.​

so Apple self-reported (from the link) that the threshold is met, and then 'has apparently already submitted formal rebuttals arguing that the criteria should not apply'?