EU to Target Apple Maps and Apple Ads Next

[Unregistered 4U]

which successful tech companies have left the EU and are minting it in the states now? and if they want an unregulated wild west where anything goes and money talks, they are perfectly entitled to move as they please, just as EU is entitled to set conditions for them to operate within its jurisdiction. because when lets-move-fast-and-break-things is allowed, someone has to pick up the pieces, which usually means anyone but those doing the breaking.

Better question, which world class tech companies are in the EU. I’ll save you the effort, none. 😏 I didn’t mention what region they went to mainly because for many years now the entire world has been more than happy to place value on what the EU regulators drive out of the region. Incidentally, had those companies remained in the region, not only would the jobs and tax receipts had stayed within the region, they would have had MORE controls over those companies! Just engaging the tiniest bit of forward thinking could have yielded an EU that was innovating into the future with “EU style restraint” tech companies along with the other world powers instead of basing their entire tech future on non-EU companies.

And you’re right, the EU is entitled to entrust the future of tech in the region on companies not based in the region. And, if world events transpire such that those companies are forbidden to do business in the region? Well, there’s going to be a bunch of folks that will be wishing there had been a little bit more moving-fast-and-breaking-things IN the region.

 

[SBlue1]

Apple Maps is trash… that the EU will see fit to regulate? Sounds about right.

Apple Maps is trash because Apple doesn't care about maps. Creating competition may force Apple to innovate again.

 

[SBlue1]

Better question, which world class tech companies are in the EU. I’ll save you the effort, none. 😏

Let me guess, you are an American? LOL! I met an American who thought we didn't have running water here in Germany because we just lost the war a few years ago. Europe is full of world leading technology companies. Check out where the lasers in your college physics labs come from, who built the xray machine in your hospitals, who made the lenses in your telescopes, who made the machines that build things in your factories? Board a plane in the US and there is a 40% chance it's an Airbus. Board a Boing and it may have a Rolls Royce engine under the wings. I listen to Spotify. My Hue lights are from Philips. My medicine is from Bayer. My headphones are from Sennheiser. My office tech from Logitech. My household appliances from Bosch.

 

[whatnot]

Better question, which world class tech companies are in the EU. I’ll save you the effort, none. 😏 I didn’t mention what region they went to mainly because for many years now the entire world has been more than happy to place value on what the EU regulators drive out of the region.

again, be specific, otherwise it's just more hyperbole running on hot air, and the last thing the world needs is more trained-on-pirated-IP AI tulip mania. if that's what you want to bet your future on, then buckle up, because no gold rush lasts forever.

 

[jlc1978]

Europe is full of world leading technology companies.

They certainly do, and as in the US, some of it is made in Europe and others around the globe. Rolls makes engines in the US, even European countries such as Bosch look to lower wage EU countries such as Poland to make some machines, so in reality there is not a lot of difference. I must admit, I was disappointed to see Nespresso making some machines in China, just like Lodge is doing with some stuff.

One challenge, IMHO, in Europe is the fear of failure and the stigma attached to it, which makes starting the next great thing more difficult, but not impossible.

 

[stars_fan]

Apple Maps is trash, just like Siri and lots of other Apple services. It took Apple two years and a few dozen reports to correct my street. It took them forever to add bike paths. The restaurant that opened in my building last year is still not listed! So good luck finding any stores or food places. I can't navigate with my 50ccm Vespa scooter because there is no option in Apple Maps to avoid the fast roads I am not allowed to use. There is no point to use Apple Maps besides car navigation.

Sounds like they don’t want to spend money investing into places they don’t make as many sales. We have none of those silly problems here.

 

[vantelimus]

One challenge, IMHO, in Europe is the fear of failure and the stigma attached to it, which makes starting the next great thing more difficult, but not impossible.

That's an important factor that is often missed or misunderstood. Steve Blank calls this out in his lectures as a cultural and institutional differentiator of the Silicon Valley. In the Valley, failure has historically carried no lasting stigma. Startups can fail and their founders are largely viewed as having gained experience instead of the taint of failure. The reduced cost of failure encourages risk taking and that increases the rate of innovation.

In the old-world countries of the EU, bankruptcy law, corporate culture, and social norms impose punitive consequences for failed ventures. That breeds risk-aversion and slow innovation. This isn't a matter of opinion. Studies by the Institute for Entrepreneurship Development and the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor project show that fear of failure is a significant deterrent for a large portion of would-be European entrepreneurs. Add to the social issues slower capital-formation mechanisms, heavier administrative burdens on startups, and restrictive regulations that punish success in the name of competition.

 

[DougiePhresh]

Sure, but however close they were I would argue it’s worse now.

I’d agree with that

 

[DownUnderDan]

There is really no end to the EU’s tyranny. Apple should just pull out of the market if they’re not going to be allowed to innovate.

There may be a reason why you aren't on the Apple board. You see money is made when you expand your markets. You adapt to local regulations, because it isn't your country, state or union to decide what is and isn't ok.

 

[gregmancuso]

Maybe Apple shouldn’t force me to use Apple Maps for certain tasks on iOS if they aren’t willing to spend the money required to make it a viable option? More competition gives us better products by giving the companies more incentives to produce them.

By the same token, perhaps Google should not get to be so horizontally integrated across all tools, products, and platforms. For what everyone here wants Apple to be forced to do - give all their work product away for free - perhaps Google should be forced to give all their POI and ad ranking data to Apple for free so they can integrate better business lookups in Maps for you.

This is not an "open good / walled bad" argument. This is a matter of business functioning as business should. There is need for government oversight. But there is often no need for governmental overreach.

I don't like every decision Apple has made - anyone saying they do would be suspect (at best). There are some things that would probably be difficult to sever with Maps integration. The ability to change the default nav map app is a start. Severing some of the tighter integrations will take time and require development of new public APIs and entitlements. That doesn't happen overnight.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

There may be a reason why you aren't on the Apple board. You see money is made when you expand your markets. You adapt to local regulations, because it isn't your country, state or union to decide what is and isn't ok.

There are various reasons why I'm not on the Apple board, and this lunacy is one of them. It's a negotiation strategy. Do you really think Apple announcing its withdrawal from the EU market would not be met with offers of compromise from the EU? Think about it, the EU needs Apple more than Apple needs the EU.

 

[jlc1978]

There are various reasons why I'm not on the Apple board, and this lunacy is one of them. It's a negotiation strategy. Do you really think Apple announcing its withdrawal from the EU market would not be met with offers of compromise from the EU? Think about it, the EU needs Apple more than Apple needs the EU.

The EU could easily call Apple's bluff, IMHO. The millions of iPhones won't stop working, nor would apps. Apple would still have all its legal obligations wrt wraanties, etc. Meanwhile, Apple would lose all that revenue and have a lot of empty real expensive estate space; and various legal obligations relative to labor laws. Never bluff when someone else has less to lose than you.

 

[Abazigal]

The EU could easily call Apple's bluff, IMHO. The millions of iPhones won't stop working, nor would apps. Apple would still have all its legal obligations wrt wraanties, etc. Meanwhile, Apple would lose all that revenue and have a lot of empty real expensive estate space; and various legal obligations relative to labor laws. Never bluff when someone else has less to lose than you.

I think the biggest issue is that there are alternatives to iPhones (eg: android phones), so Apple may not have as much leverage as they would like. Sure, there may be some inconvenience in the short run, but people will eventually find a way to manage and move on.

For any withdrawal to truly make an impact, I feel that Apple needs to at least come to an arrangement with Google and Microsoft to simultaneously make their products and services (ie: iOS, macOS, android, windows, all related cloud services) unavailable in the EU in order to exert real pressure. I doubt we will ever see that happen though.

But in the long run, the sooner the EU government can move on to more open-source alternatives, the less beholden they will be to big tech and the better it will be for everybody.

 

[jlc1978]

I think the biggest issue is that there are alternatives to iPhones (eg: android phones), so Apple may not have as much leverage as they would like. Sure, there may be some inconvenience in the short run, but people will eventually find a way to manage and move on.

Exactly, which would severely impact rentry forcApple.

For any withdrawal to truly make an impact, I feel that Apple needs to at least come to an arrangement with Google and Microsoft to simultaneously make their products and services (ie: iOS, macOS, android, windows, all related cloud services) unavailable in the EU in order to exert real pressure. I doubt we will ever see that happen though.

And likely to run afoul of antirust laws.

But in the long run, the sooner the EU government can move on to more open-source alternatives, the less beholden they will be to big tech and the better it will be for everybody.

True, and really mess up current business models. That’s why the offer sweetheart deals when it looks like a government tries that.

 

[Abazigal]

True, and really mess up current business models. That’s why the offer sweetheart deals when it looks like a government tries that.

Well, maybe China is on to something when the government invested in creating their own homegrown alternatives to western tech offerings.