EV cars blowing past gas cars in lower cost-per-mile and maintenance.

[s2mikey]

I would certainly consider an EV as a daily runabout or a car for daily work commuting. I think it makes sense and is becoming more feasible. However, I still think most households will need a larger vehicle for hauling the whole family, longer trips, bringing gear and other things with you, contractors and their tools, etc,etc. then, the sports, vintage and collector car hobby is huge in the USA. Gotta have a toy too, right?

So, to me the best starting lineup for most households would be something like this:

1. One or two EVs for daily commutes and heading to the office.
2. One pickup or SUV for the long trips and when hauling stuff is required.
3. One 60s era muscle car, a sports car or an exotic if your budget allows.

That should do it.

 

[pshufd]

I would certainly consider an EV as a daily runabout or a car for daily work commuting. I think it makes sense and is becoming more feasible. However, I still think most households will need a larger vehicle for hauling the whole family, longer trips, bringing gear and other things with you, contractors and their tools, etc,etc. then, the sports, vintage and collector car hobby is huge in the USA. Gotta have a toy too, right?

So, to me the best starting lineup for most households would be something like this:

1. One or two EVs for daily commutes and heading to the office.
2. One pickup or SUV for the long trips and when hauling stuff is required.
3. One 60s era muscle car, a sports car or an exotic if your budget allows.

That should do it.

How about a Cybertruck?

 

[robbieduncan]

I would certainly consider an EV as a daily runabout or a car for daily work commuting. I think it makes sense and is becoming more feasible. However, I still think most households will need a larger vehicle for hauling the whole family, longer trips, bringing gear and other things with you, contractors and their tools, etc,etc. then, the sports, vintage and collector car hobby is huge in the USA. Gotta have a toy too, right?

So, to me the best starting lineup for most households would be something like this:

1. One or two EVs for daily commutes and heading to the office.
2. One pickup or SUV for the long trips and when hauling stuff is required.
3. One 60s era muscle car, a sports car or an exotic if your budget allows.

That should do it.

Too many vehicles for each household! The goal has to be as few as possible, not as many! If you want a hobby car: cool. But 3+ cars just as a general stock? Too many. Here in the UK car ownership is still growing (which I am surprised at) but even in high usage areas we are looking at an average of 1.4 per household: https://www.statista.com/statistics/314912/average-number-of-cars-per-household-in-england/

 

[s2mikey]

Too many vehicles for each household! The goal has to be as few as possible, not as many! If you want a hobby car: cool. But 3+ cars just as a general stock? Too many. Here in the UK car ownership is still growing (which I am surprised at) but even in high usage areas we are looking at an average of 1.4 per household: https://www.statista.com/statistics/314912/average-number-of-cars-per-household-in-england/

Well, I sort of agree but if you and your spouse/partner both work, which is true for many households then you need two EVs to get you both to work unless you're very lucky and have the same hours and work close to each other. The SUV or truck serves a purpose since as a homeowner there are so many things a truck is useful for. Or an SUV. Then, if you have a teen driver or two in the house then they can share a car to some extent but that doesnt always work either.

I hear you - and Im all about saving money whch you do with less cars but reality often sets in.

 

[Eraserhead]

Well, I sort of agree but if you and your spouse/partner both work, which is true for many households then you need two EVs to get you both to work unless you're very lucky and have the same hours and work close to each other. The SUV or truck serves a purpose since as a homeowner there are so many things a truck is useful for. Or an SUV. Then, if you have a teen driver or two in the house then they can share a car to some extent but that doesnt always work either.

I hear you - and Im all about saving money whch you do with less cars but reality often sets in.

Why not hire a vehicle for the edge cases? And what non edge cases do you need a truck for?

 

[pshufd]

Why not hire a vehicle for the edge cases? And what non edge cases do you need a truck for?

The last couple of times I needed to move stuff, I rented from Home Depot. Something like $20 for a few hours. They rent a van or a truck. You are only supposed to rent it to move something that you buy from them but I just buy a small item to rent it. It's a lot cheaper than U-Haul if you only need it for a short period of time.

But U-Haul is available. The thing is that most people would prefer to just use their own vehicles in the age of COVID.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Tesla is making great progress here. Anything over 400 miles is good. Ideally I still would like to see 500 mile range

Tesla announces Model 3 Performance range increase in China

Tesla has announced a Model 3 Performance range increase for the version of the vehicle built in China. When announcing...

electrek.co

First, Tesla has clearly made and continues to make a massive impact on the auto industry and the acceptance of EVs.

But one thing I can’t stand about Tesla is their horrendously dishonest marketing. They make it difficult to even find out the price of a car without the tax incentives. Sure, all marketing at some level is probably deceptive, but Tesla really goes above and beyond.

As the article acknowledges, which is somewhat surprising considering Electrek’s tendency to favor Tesla, naturally as it is an EV site.

While 635 km (395 miles) may sound impressive, the number is based on the NEDC driving cycle, which has been discontinued almost everywhere and it is known for not being very accurate.

The comparable US model, which I presume is the same or similar hardware is rated at 348 NEDC miles, which is closer to 322 EPA miles.

I saw an article/study a while back that basically found Tesla’s real world range was about 75% if advertised. Meanwhile, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, etc had ~95-105%. I didn't scrutinize the methods used, but they claim Tesla's range is way less than the EPA estimates in real world driving. I know this is a common finding for all the Tesla drivers I know. I don't think I know anyone with a non-Tesla BEV who can comment on range estimate accuracy.

Despite my distaste of Tesla’s business practices (from marketing to apparent employee treatment)... in addition to the fact the quality for the price isn’t very good IMO and I don’t find them particularly good looking, if I had to buy an electric car it would be the most practical choice. They also have some of the best tech in the industry, really pushing the advancement of car tech, but the competition is catching up. 400 miles I think is the number where people start to feel comfortable.

But somehow despite the “they’re so reliable because they have no moving parts” ( ), Tesla scores among the the worse in reliability. That said, theoretically once kinks get worked out and Tesla takes some tips from Toyota get, EV’s powertrains in theory should one day be very reliable. It's clear however their quality is always up to snuff, especially given the price.

My fiancée’s father has a 2016 Model S 90D with 75k, purchased brand new for over $100,000. He's had a bunch of little annoying problems and some big problems, like having to have a drive motor replaced (under warranty thankfully). He says he "loves the car but hates owning it". In a discussion between my future father in-law and my father, it sounds like mile for mile the 2016 Model S is LESS reliable than my dad’s 2012 Range Rover Sport, which is saying a lot for anyone whose ever dealt with a Land Rover.

Tesla’s parts and labor costs, in addition to their effective monopoly providing on parts, labor, and bodywork (and aluminum on some models) naturally makes them among the most expensive mainstream cars to cars. Plus, their lacking parts distribution and elusive service centers/appointments means slower repairs which costs your insurance money in many cases Consequently, the insurance rates will be nuts. Its amazing seeing on Reddit or YouTube the minimal damage that can total the car. I know Tesla formed their own insurance company to deal with these cost issues, but from what I can see most people say it ends up coming more

Perhaps BEV's like Nissan and Hyundai have reasonable cost of parts and labor.... Nissan at least has awful resale though, as do a lot of EV's and Hybrids. Nearly all of the articles comparing Tesla cost of ownership come from essentially Telsa-propogranda-sites and a highly flawed research. It's very easy to cherry pick data or a single car model to compare to. Tesla used to (and may still) call the Model S a "full size luxury sedan" because of its large hatchback trunk, thus comparing to cars like the far more expensive S-Class (in reality its comparable to an E-Class). Or this 2017 article put out by Venture Capital firm Loop Ventures (Tesla investor) compares the 5YR cost of ownership in the Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry vs. Audi S5... The "study" is flawed... perfectly designed to have a a specific outcome, despite it being a dumpster fire otherwise.

It's funny they also promoted the idea that in 2020-2021 their cars would be fully autonomous and possibly robot taxis able to earn you money when not driving your car.

Regular gas today in Boston was $2.09 gallon (I’m old enough to remember in 2008/2009 when media pundits said we’d “never see gas under $4 ever again”). Meanwhile electricity prices are going up. Paying a premium for a hybrid of electric drivetrain.

I think there are still a lot of significant barriers Tesla and other brands especially (less advanced companies m) EV brands needs to get through before the general public public will be more willing to accept them on a large scale. As it is I believe EVs only comprise -1% of the market.

 

[pshufd]

First, Tesla has clearly made and continues to make a massive impact on the auto industry and the acceptance of EVs.

But one thing I can’t stand about Tesla is their horrendously dishonest marketing. They make it difficult to even find out the price of a car without the tax incentives. Sure, all marketing at some level is probably deceptive, but Tesla really goes above and beyond.

As the article acknowledges, which is somewhat surprising considering Electrek’s tendency to favor Tesla, naturally as it is an EV site.

The comparable US model, which I presume is the same or similar hardware is rated at 348 NEDC miles, which is closer to 322 EPA miles.

I saw an article/study a while back that basically found Tesla’s real world range was about 75% if advertised. Meanwhile, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, etc had ~95-105%. I didn't scrutinize the methods used, but they claim Tesla's range is way less than the EPA estimates in real world driving. I know this is a common finding for all the Tesla drivers I know. I don't think I know anyone with a non-Tesla BEV who can comment on range estimate accuracy.

Despite my distaste of Tesla’s business practices (from marketing to apparent employee treatment)... in addition to the fact the quality for the price isn’t very good IMO and I don’t find them particularly good looking, if I had to buy an electric car it would be the most practical choice. They also have some of the best tech in the industry, really pushing the advancement of car tech, but the competition is catching up. 400 miles I think is the number where people start to feel comfortable.

But somehow despite the “they’re so reliable because they have no moving parts” ( ), Tesla scores among the the worse in reliability. That said, theoretically once kinks get worked out and Tesla takes some tips from Toyota get, EV’s powertrains in theory should one day be very reliable. It's clear however their quality is always up to snuff, especially given the price.

My fiancée’s father has a 2016 Model S 90D with 75k, purchased brand new for over $100,000. He's had a bunch of little annoying problems and some big problems, like having to have a drive motor replaced (under warranty thankfully). He says he "loves the car but hates owning it". In a discussion between my future father in-law and my father, it sounds like mile for mile the 2016 Model S is LESS reliable than my dad’s 2012 Range Rover Sport, which is saying a lot for anyone whose ever dealt with a Land Rover.

Tesla’s parts and labor costs, in addition to their effective monopoly providing on parts, labor, and bodywork (and aluminum on some models) naturally makes them among the most expensive mainstream cars to cars. Plus, their lacking parts distribution and elusive service centers/appointments means slower repairs which costs your insurance money in many cases Consequently, the insurance rates will be nuts. Its amazing seeing on Reddit or YouTube the minimal damage that can total the car. I know Tesla formed their own insurance company to deal with these cost issues, but from what I can see most people say it ends up coming more

Perhaps BEV's like Nissan and Hyundai have reasonable cost of parts and labor.... Nissan at least has awful resale though, as do a lot of EV's and Hybrids. Nearly all of the articles comparing Tesla cost of ownership come from essentially Telsa-propogranda-sites and a highly flawed research. It's very easy to cherry pick data or a single car model to compare to. Tesla used to (and may still) call the Model S a "full size luxury sedan" because of its large hatchback trunk, thus comparing to cars like the far more expensive S-Class (in reality its comparable to an E-Class). Or this 2017 article put out by Venture Capital firm Loop Ventures (Tesla investor) compares the 5YR cost of ownership in the Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry vs. Audi S5... The "study" is flawed... perfectly designed to have a a specific outcome, despite it being a dumpster fire otherwise.

It's funny they also promoted the idea that in 2020-2021 their cars would be fully autonomous and possibly robot taxis able to earn you money when not driving your car.

Regular gas today in Boston was $2.09 gallon (I’m old enough to remember in 2008/2009 when media pundits said we’d “never see gas under $4 ever again”). Meanwhile electricity prices are going up. Paying a premium for a hybrid of electric drivetrain.

I think there are still a lot of significant barriers Tesla and other brands especially (less advanced companies m) EV brands needs to get through before the general public public will be more willing to accept them on a large scale. As it is I believe EVs only comprise -1% of the market.

I've driven Toyotas for the past two decades and it's easy to get spoiled by Toyota quality. I would buy an EV from Toyota that sells a lot of units per year. That they don't have one tells me something about what people want and what technology can deliver. My last fillup on my Camry had MPG of 48.5. I drove 600+ miles on about 12 gallons of gasoline. So absolute range is probably close to 800 miles. Gasoline is about $1.70 at my local station.

At the moment, the most convenient is the Hybrids and they get better and better.

On Tesla tech - I would hope that Toyota will license some of it from Tesla. Tesla is state-of-the-art but they also have those SOTA bugs.

 

[Eraserhead]

I've driven Toyotas for the past two decades and it's easy to get spoiled by Toyota quality. I would buy an EV from Toyota that sells a lot of units per year. That they don't have one tells me something about what people want and what technology can deliver. My last fillup on my Camry had MPG of 48.5. I drove 600+ miles on about 12 gallons of gasoline. So absolute range is probably close to 800 miles. Gasoline is about $1.70 at my local station.

At the moment, the most convenient is the Hybrids and they get better and better.

On Tesla tech - I would hope that Toyota will license some of it from Tesla. Tesla is state-of-the-art but they also have those SOTA bugs.

Toyota isn’t selling an EV because they thought hydrogen was the future.

 

[pshufd]

Toyota isn’t selling an EV because they thought hydrogen was the future.

I'm sure that Toyota has ongoing R&D into all sorts of areas. They also have cooperative arrangements with other automakers and parts makers.

 

[Eraserhead]

First, Tesla has clearly made and continues to make a massive impact on the auto industry and the acceptance of EVs.

But one thing I can’t stand about Tesla is their horrendously dishonest marketing. They make it difficult to even find out the price of a car without the tax incentives. Sure, all marketing at some level is probably deceptive, but Tesla really goes above and beyond.

As the article acknowledges, which is somewhat surprising considering Electrek’s tendency to favor Tesla, naturally as it is an EV site.

The comparable US model, which I presume is the same or similar hardware is rated at 348 NEDC miles, which is closer to 322 EPA miles.

I saw an article/study a while back that basically found Tesla’s real world range was about 75% if advertised. Meanwhile, Nissan, Mercedes, BMW, etc had ~95-105%. I didn't scrutinize the methods used, but they claim Tesla's range is way less than the EPA estimates in real world driving. I know this is a common finding for all the Tesla drivers I know. I don't think I know anyone with a non-Tesla BEV who can comment on range estimate accuracy.

Despite my distaste of Tesla’s business practices (from marketing to apparent employee treatment)... in addition to the fact the quality for the price isn’t very good IMO and I don’t find them particularly good looking, if I had to buy an electric car it would be the most practical choice. They also have some of the best tech in the industry, really pushing the advancement of car tech, but the competition is catching up. 400 miles I think is the number where people start to feel comfortable.

But somehow despite the “they’re so reliable because they have no moving parts” ( ), Tesla scores among the the worse in reliability. That said, theoretically once kinks get worked out and Tesla takes some tips from Toyota get, EV’s powertrains in theory should one day be very reliable. It's clear however their quality is always up to snuff, especially given the price.

My fiancée’s father has a 2016 Model S 90D with 75k, purchased brand new for over $100,000. He's had a bunch of little annoying problems and some big problems, like having to have a drive motor replaced (under warranty thankfully). He says he "loves the car but hates owning it". In a discussion between my future father in-law and my father, it sounds like mile for mile the 2016 Model S is LESS reliable than my dad’s 2012 Range Rover Sport, which is saying a lot for anyone whose ever dealt with a Land Rover.

Tesla’s parts and labor costs, in addition to their effective monopoly providing on parts, labor, and bodywork (and aluminum on some models) naturally makes them among the most expensive mainstream cars to cars. Plus, their lacking parts distribution and elusive service centers/appointments means slower repairs which costs your insurance money in many cases Consequently, the insurance rates will be nuts. Its amazing seeing on Reddit or YouTube the minimal damage that can total the car. I know Tesla formed their own insurance company to deal with these cost issues, but from what I can see most people say it ends up coming more

Perhaps BEV's like Nissan and Hyundai have reasonable cost of parts and labor.... Nissan at least has awful resale though, as do a lot of EV's and Hybrids. Nearly all of the articles comparing Tesla cost of ownership come from essentially Telsa-propogranda-sites and a highly flawed research. It's very easy to cherry pick data or a single car model to compare to. Tesla used to (and may still) call the Model S a "full size luxury sedan" because of its large hatchback trunk, thus comparing to cars like the far more expensive S-Class (in reality its comparable to an E-Class). Or this 2017 article put out by Venture Capital firm Loop Ventures (Tesla investor) compares the 5YR cost of ownership in the Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry vs. Audi S5... The "study" is flawed... perfectly designed to have a a specific outcome, despite it being a dumpster fire otherwise.

It's funny they also promoted the idea that in 2020-2021 their cars would be fully autonomous and possibly robot taxis able to earn you money when not driving your car.

Regular gas today in Boston was $2.09 gallon (I’m old enough to remember in 2008/2009 when media pundits said we’d “never see gas under $4 ever again”). Meanwhile electricity prices are going up. Paying a premium for a hybrid of electric drivetrain.

I think there are still a lot of significant barriers Tesla and other brands especially (less advanced companies m) EV brands needs to get through before the general public public will be more willing to accept them on a large scale. As it is I believe EVs only comprise -1% of the market.

I have an i3 with range extender, it does about 115 miles pure electric real world which is a little more than the EPA numbers.
[automerge]1593531103[/automerge]

I'm sure that Toyota has ongoing R&D into all sorts of areas. They also have cooperative arrangements with other automakers and parts makers.

Companies are perfectly capable of making mistakes. BMW makes an EV and makes good quality cars.

 

[pshufd]

Companies are perfectly capable of making mistakes. BMW makes an EV and makes good quality cars.

I drove BMWs and Audis for 20 years. I found them to be maintenance nightmares. My past three cars have all been made in Kentucky too. As I said, it's hard to move to other cars after being with Toyota.

 

[s2mikey]

Why not hire a vehicle for the edge cases? And what non edge cases do you need a truck for?

Oh we do pay for delivery of certain things if it makes sense. Like our recent landscaping project where we bought a bunch of stone and mulch. But, there are quite a few other items where having a truck and owning a home seem to jive well. Like if you buy appliances. If you buy a smaller qty of landscaping supplies. A new TV. Helping someone move. Firewood hauling. The list gets bigger than you think and those delivery fees add up. We currently don’t own a pickup and I’ll probably never get another one but they are damned convenient for anyone that owns a home, IMO.

 

[Sydde]

I have a rather old car, but it is pretty well made. I get anywhere from 5% to 20% better economy than what I have seen posted for it. The fuel economy ratings seem to be based on something between ideal driving habits and normal American behavior. It is probably not unreasonable to imagine that a good driver could get the posted range out of a BEV. All we have to do is retrain drivers for it.

 

[pshufd]

I have a rather old car, but it is pretty well made. I get anywhere from 5% to 20% better economy than what I have seen posted for it. The fuel economy ratings seem to be based on something between ideal driving habits and normal American behavior. It is probably not unreasonable to imagine that a good driver could get the posted range out of a BEV. All we have to do is retrain drivers for it.

That may not work for really cold temperatures. There are lots of YouTube videos on what Tesla drivers have to do in cold temperatures. Especially if you don't have a heated garage.

 

[TheHateMachine]

Toyota isn’t selling an EV because they thought hydrogen was the future.

They are still trying to bank on that but hydrogen refuel deployment in the US is very very very slow. Almost nonexistent at this point. I saw my first station a few years ago in the middle of no where. Was essentially farm country USA where most towns had a population of 500. I found that very odd. Haven't seen another one since.
[automerge]1593533093[/automerge]

That may not work for really cold temperatures. There are lots of YouTube videos on what Tesla drivers have to do in cold temperatures. Especially if you don't have a heated garage.

From what I understand you cannot even use a normal 120 volt outlet to charge in the cold because the battery heater takes all the juice.

 

[pshufd]

They are still trying to bank on that but hydrogen refuel deployment in the US is very very very slow. Almost nonexistent at this point. I saw my first station a few years ago in the middle of no where. Was essentially farm country USA where most towns had a population of 500. I found that very odd. Haven't seen another one since.
[automerge]1593533093[/automerge]


From what I understand you cannot even use a normal 120 volt outlet to charge in the cold because the battery heater takes all the juice.

We always get temps in the teens, usually get temps in the single-digits and sometimes get temps in the negatives, sometimes down to 20 below. So cold operations is a big factor. Cold affects ICE vehicles as well but the typical greater range and quick refill makes life easier.

 

[robbieduncan]

Well, I sort of agree but if you and your spouse/partner both work, which is true for many households then you need two EVs to get you both to work unless you're very lucky and have the same hours and work close to each other. The SUV or truck serves a purpose since as a homeowner there are so many things a truck is useful for. Or an SUV. Then, if you have a teen driver or two in the house then they can share a car to some extent but that doesnt always work either.

I hear you - and Im all about saving money whch you do with less cars but reality often sets in.

I appreciate the UK is different but here it’s not an absolute that work = need to drive. And teenagers having their own car are definitely the exception. When we lived in London both my wife and I worked. Neither of us drove to work. Now we live in Yorkshire we both work. Once out of lockdown neither of us will drive to work (WFH, occasional long commute to London on the train and walk to the office)

 

[Eraserhead]

Oh we do pay for delivery of certain things if it makes sense. Like our recent landscaping project where we bought a bunch of stone and mulch. But, there are quite a few other items where having a truck and owning a home seem to jive well. Like if you buy appliances. If you buy a smaller qty of landscaping supplies. A new TV. Helping someone move. Firewood hauling. The list gets bigger than you think and those delivery fees add up. We currently don’t own a pickup and I’ll probably never get another one but they are damned convenient for anyone that owns a home, IMO.

You can carry a fair few gardening supplies and appliances in a car

 

[robbieduncan]

Oh we do pay for delivery of certain things if it makes sense. Like our recent landscaping project where we bought a bunch of stone and mulch. But, there are quite a few other items where having a truck and owning a home seem to jive well. Like if you buy appliances. If you buy a smaller qty of landscaping supplies. A new TV. Helping someone move. Firewood hauling. The list gets bigger than you think and those delivery fees add up. We currently don’t own a pickup and I’ll probably never get another one but they are damned convenient for anyone that owns a home, IMO.

I get appliances delivered on the rare (less than once a year) I buy them. Same for TVs. We don‘t burn firewood. In fact any non-smokless fuel is illegal here. If I need more landscaping/DIY that fits in an estate (station wagon) then I’m having it delivered!

Don’t get me wrong not having a car at all would be a total pain but more than one would be more than we need. We did recently have two cars for a brief period (overlap between buying and selling). Once simply never moved!

 

[s2mikey]

I get appliances delivered on the rare (less than once a year) I buy them. Same for TVs. We don‘t burn firewood. In fact any non-smokless fuel is illegal here. If I need more landscaping/DIY that fits in an estate (station wagon) then I’m having it delivered!

Don’t get me wrong not having a car at all would be a total pain but more than one would be more than we need. We did recently have two cars for a brief period (overlap between buying and selling). Once simply never moved!

That’s cool. Everyone’s situation will be different. I realize that appliances and TVs don’t get bought every month and neither does landscaping. Still, there are households that might like camping or road trips and in those cases they really need that larger vehicle. Or if you have a boat, ATV, etc, etc.

But yes, the fewer vehicles you can get by with the better! I’m sure well add an EV to the household at some point here.

 

[stylinexpat]

I've driven Toyotas for the past two decades and it's easy to get spoiled by Toyota quality. I would buy an EV from Toyota that sells a lot of units per year. That they don't have one tells me something about what people want and what technology can deliver. My last fillup on my Camry had MPG of 48.5. I drove 600+ miles on about 12 gallons of gasoline. So absolute range is probably close to 800 miles. Gasoline is about $1.70 at my local station.

At the moment, the most convenient is the Hybrids and they get better and better.

On Tesla tech - I would hope that Toyota will license some of it from Tesla. Tesla is state-of-the-art but they also have those SOTA bugs.

600 miles out of a tank of gas is nice 👍
Toyota quality is hard to beat (no denying there). I test drove a new Prius for fun and was amazed at how quiet and spacious that car was a side from the amazing MPG numbers. Being as aerodynamic as it is made it very quiet on the highway at 80 MPH compared to my BMW at 80 MPH. I was surprised by the difference in interior sound. Obviously the BMW handled and brakes better but each had its advantages and disadvantages over the other. Yeah.., if toyota had Tesla Range and performance in an electric car I think many would be on board.

 

[Think creative]

I would certainly consider an EV as a daily runabout or a car for daily work commuting. I think it makes sense and is becoming more feasible. However, I still think most households will need a larger vehicle for hauling the whole family, longer trips, bringing gear and other things with you, contractors and their tools, etc,etc. then, the sports, vintage and collector car hobby is huge in the USA. Gotta have a toy too, right?

So, to me the best starting lineup for most households would be something like this:

1. One or two EVs for daily commutes and heading to the office.
2. One pickup or SUV for the long trips and when hauling stuff is required.
3. One 60s era muscle car, a sports car or an exotic if your budget allows.

That should do it.

in twenty years or less not only would this be deemed incredibly unethical, you'd probably get major fees for being so wasteful.

The truth is that we need a massive light rail system in this country yesterday, and that single car ownership is still borderline unethical as it currently stands. EV's are just a band aid on the bigger problem which is that most people shouldn't own vehicles because of climate change. Personally, I'm about to upgrade my vehicle to a Prius, and in ten years I'll get a EV, but most of my time I'll be biking.

if you actually care about this planet, you'll have to do the same.

 

[PracticalMac]

I guess that 40% of all private, non commercial vehicles can be EV. Could be as much as 60%.
A sizable number (20%?) of commercial and government vehicles can be EV too.

Just a guess

 

[s2mikey]

in twenty years or less not only would this be deemed incredibly unethical, you'd probably get major fees for being so wasteful.

The truth is that we need a massive light rail system in this country yesterday, and that single car ownership is still borderline unethical as it currently stands. EV's are just a band aid on the bigger problem which is that most people shouldn't own vehicles because of climate change. Personally, I'm about to upgrade my vehicle to a Prius, and in ten years I'll get a EV, but most of my time I'll be biking.

if you actually care about this planet, you'll have to do the same.

Sounds very "Pie in the sky" to me. Zero vehicles? Just bicycles? What do people do in climates with cold and snow? How do I take someone with me? How do I travel with my family? Even one car isn’t nearly enough. I know it’s not the in thing but some of us prefer to NOT live stacked on top of each other in cities which is what your system requires. Especially after this Covid thing. No thanks. Can’t do it. I need space and a yard.

Your utopian setup requires everyone living in some high rise and basically working within a mile of each other too. And the weather has to be perfect also. Cmon. Be real. Public transportation could possibly work in heavily populated cities, like subways do now but that wont fly in the burbs or the country. I’m fine with an EV and doing what we can within reason but cycling is exercise for me, not my main mode of transportation.

Not even going to get into the climate change nonsense. That’s old news now. Weren’t we supposed to all die from that like several times now? No go.