AdamZ said:
Unless I'm missing something, I don't get it ... I think the analyst remarks argue against something happening, at least regarding a direct computing-on-TV convergence.
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Unless I'm missing something, I don't get it ... I think the analyst remarks argue against something happening, at least regarding a direct computing-on-TV convergence.
Apple ANALYST MEETING 2003
We need to find the Transcript! There is A LOT more!!! Jobs and Phil Schiller are both talking. Phil speaks about not a convergence of computers, but a DIVERGENCE of them. Something like, "The same computer that sits on your desktop is not the same as the one that sits next to your TV." He and Jobs compared it to cars. "The car became the sport convertible, station wagon, SUV, ect." When he was asked about Media center PC's, he makes a funny joke about combining a computer with a toaster. Everyone broke out laughing.
chicagdan said:
We need to find the Transcript! There is A LOT more!!! Jobs and Phil Schiller are both talking. Phil speaks about not a convergence of computers, but a DIVERGENCE of them. Something like, "The same computer that sits on your desktop is not the same as the one that sits next to your TV." He and Jobs compared it to cars. "The car became the sport convertible, station wagon, SUV, ect." When he was asked about Media center PC's, he makes a funny joke about combining a computer with a toaster. Everyone broke out laughing.
Apple ANALYST MEETING 2003
Did you miss reading this or something? "We do believe that there's room for people watching some television on a computer now and then." Can we say iTunes Music Store now selling shows qualifies I know its 2003, but this stuff takes years to implement. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/46254/
chicagdan said:
Did you miss reading this or something? "We do believe that there's room for people watching some television on a computer now and then." Can we say iTunes Music Store now selling shows qualifies I know its 2003, but this stuff takes years to implement. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/46254/
AdamZ said:
Well, I wouldn't argue with that because I'm watching the Giants-Panthers game on my iMac as I type this. But I think Steve said that to minimize the importance of convergence ... it's just something you might do from time to time. I know I'm only watching via EyeTv because I wanted to check my e-mail ... I'll be back to my living room and my HDTV after the next commercials.
Regardless, I don't think we're that far apart here ... I do think Apple is adopting Viiv and that either the set top box or an Apple HDTV (or both) will have some kind of computing experience built in, but I would think it won't be like operating a Mac, it will be more tightly focused on media and might even disable some computing processes (either by default or by option.) The HDTV will definitely NOT be your primary computer.
chicagdan said:
I understand that Apple needs to take a big leap, but Apple is about providing consumer electronics that Joe and Joanne Schmo can use straight away, and that they have a call for. They provide a kind of essential which has luxuries, ie. the iMac is just a computer to them, but it has nice additions like an iSight so they can talk to the grandkids. Things like plasma media centres aren't likely to be bought by these kinds of people, at least not for a while. They are luxuries which have little demand at the moment. It's like video for the iPod- I'm sure it could have been done years ago -Archos has had PMP's for a while- but Apple waited until they themselves had created the demand for it. I just don't think the demand for such centres is there yet. I'd have thought Apple would spend more time and release more products to guide the consumer market towards such a product.
Don't get me wrong, it'd be amazing to see plasma media centre's on Tuesday, but I think the step is just a little long for Apple considering their current stride.
I'd be surprised if Apple didn't release the smaller iBook that was rumoured a while back, since I think there is real demand for a small form laptop to compete with the other sub 10-inch laptops. THAT is a market where there is substantial and growing demand- I wouldn't have thought that media centres have that demand yet, outside of the Mac community.
As a Mac-head it's all too easy to lose focus with what the general public would want
And as for signs pointing towards a media centre, I agree, but that kind of happened last time with FrontRow on the iMac. And remember, once upon a time we were gonna get our G5 PowerBooks... Once again, I'd love to see them do this and beat Microsoft to the market, but it almost seem out of character to me.
EDIT: Come to think of it, a Set Top Box is entirely plausible. It's just the Plasma bit I disagree with.
Lunja said:
I don't think you comprehend just how quickly HDTV has been adopted in the U.S. A year ago I'd say you were right and maybe in Europe that's still the case, but in the U.S., big screen HDTV adoption is moving so quickly that, if anything, Apple might be behind the curve.
Ahh. You see, in the UK not many people are buying them yet. As a media student I really should have remembered that USA is already broadcasting in HD...
By the way, Downing Street just announced that next week they are inventing the wheel.
By the way, Downing Street just announced that next week they are inventing the wheel.
Lunja said:Ahh. You see, in the UK not many people are buying them yet. As a media student I really should have remembered that USA is already broadcasting in HD...
By the way, Downing Street just announced that next week they are inventing the wheel.
That's actually the big problem with Apple's solution (and everyone else's) -- all the existing equipment and how to integrate it. I have an HDTV with HD digital cable. My cable company provides an HD DVR ... not bad. But how on earth is this going to integrate into an Apple set top box? My HDTV has one HDMI connection (not DVI), so what am I supposed to do, unplug the cable box/DVR any time I want to watch an Apple Box downloaded movie?
And that's just one man's problem ... now imagine all the different cable companies and the different boxes they use and satellite companies and over the air HD and then consider all the non-U.S. versions of HD delivery ... it's mind boggling. Cable companies have ZERO interest in helping a company like Apple take over the box ... THEY want to sell me HD pay-per-view, they don't want Apple getting that money.
So how does all of this work? That's what I want to hear on Tuesday ... and don't tell me to scrap it all and buy an Apple all-in-one solution because I may have drunk my Kool Aid today, but I'm not eager to spend my way into bankruptcy either.
See, this is part of my argument- integrating their system with others will cost too much, and is a bit un-Apple-ish. However, in the European market this leap would therefore be justified, jumping into the market with an all i one solution before such complications arise...
chicagdan said:
If Apple is successful, then the tables will be turned. Those companies will be complaining that Apple won't let them interface their cable box with Apple equipment. Eventually Apple might relent and license the Apple protocol to the cable companies. It will be the cable companies who will have to pay (in money and R&D) to get their boxes interoperable. If Apple is successful.
is it just me or are people not realizing that there would be a pass through for hdmi if you are talking about a mac mini set top box? If you are talking about an all in one plasma or sed, of course its going to have aux inputs. You wont have to swap cables and unplug things. Think about it. If Apple is REALLY going to do this, they will make sure that the display is versatile and will work with peripherals (IE: xbox, ps3, nintendo, VHS, camcorders etc etc etc). They will also have some answer to the upgradeability of the CPU or logicboard. I really do hope they do this, and if they do, they'll have a REAL winner on their hands! I'd bet money on it.
d_saum said:
It's never that simple. My example -- my HD cable box is a Motorola DCT6412 dual tuner HD cable box/DVR combo. It has DVI, not HDMI. My TV has HDMI. So I have to use a DVI to HDMI cable.
That's complicated by the fact that HDMI includes audio, but DVI does not. Not a problem if you run the audio to your audio receiver while running the video to the TV. But if you're using a pass through cable, then the audio isn't passing through ... does HDMI audio work with one and not another?
I have no idea how this is going to work. I hope Apple simplifies it all for me ... right now I'm confused as hell. I had to give away my Replay TV because it no longer works ... my EyeTV works on basic cable only ... my HD DVR is wonderful, but the video can't go anywhere unless I hook my PowerBook up to it ... and that requires hooking up a firewire external HD because the disk space it takes up is enormous ... and on and on and on.
Yeah, we need an Apple solution, just don't force me to buy everything over again.
chicagdan said:
Sorry, but your post just proves my point...you mentioned above at least 3 gadgets and technologies...and on top of that, people are thinking that Apple will be successful with a 3000+ thingie...sorry, it might be launched, but it's NOT gonna help Apple in the medium-term, just like 30" screens; perhaps in Chicago people get TiVO, EyeTV, DVRs and HD screens for free...not in the rest of the world.
That rumored box/screen is WAY too expensive for normal consumers...we are not talking about 200 bucks iPods, we are talking something that IS expensive and relies on proprietary/regional protocols...HDTV is still a distant and badly implemented technology for 60% of Apple's market (the FOREIGN market), where technologies are still being evaluated for final regulatory implementation...it might be a great showcase, but it's NOT gonna turn any tables anytime soon, sorry. I prefer to stick to Intel PBs and iBooks...the rest is fantasy.
strange days said:
The one I've been eyeing is the InFocus Screenplay 4805, which does HDTV as well, and is pretty affordable. Right now, Circuit City has a deal where you can get the projector for $1,000 and a free 72" screen for free. It's great for movies, haven't tried it on my Mac but I can't imagine it not being great. A friend of mine did extensive research on projectors and decided on this one, and so far so good! Read the reviews, it's hard to find a negative one!
Fishes,
narco.
BRLawyer said:
I hear what you're saying, but take a breath and think about this for a minute:
1) The HDTV is optional. You can buy a set top box instead if you already have the HDTV or can't add it yet.
2) The HDTV price isn't out of line with competing products, so if you are buying HDTV, why not Apple?
3) Sometimes you need to play defense. Will this product line work? Nobody knows. But if Microsoft is heading there and the potential exists for it to be a huge product that will take over the living room, Apple has a very difficult choice to make -- surrender or fight? Even if it takes three years to reach maturity, you might have to take the hit now to become credible.
4) Apple cannot maintain its stock price with its current product line. It needs to branch out with a new product that duplicates the success of the iPod. So expect Apple to take more risks than usual this year. This product could very well be fictional, but I'd be much more surprised if Apple doesn't take at least one big risk like this in 2006.
BRLawyer said:
I agree. The UK hasn't even experienced the digital switchover yet- our five major terrestrial channels are still broadcast in analogue. I don't know how things are in Switzerland?
It just seems too expensive, too exclusive, and to be honest, a little too unoriginal for everyone's favourite fruit company...
But a set top box is plausible. If it comes with a slot for a Sky/Ntl card, it'll open up another market. I can't see people ditching Sky+ boxes for aftermarket PVR/Media systems just yet (in the UK anyway). Do you think an Apple box would be bought in the US by people with TiVo's or BrightHouse boxes already?
Like I stated before. A product like this will not fly in Europe. A lot of people are forgetting everything outside of the US...yet again. Mainland Europe is far from being digital and all the digital systems out in Europe are different*. The only country that could maybe follow is the UK, but that's about it. Also there is exactly one HD channel in Europe and I doubt that it's available everywhere. And you even have to pay for that channel !
And as stated before, this isn't a cheap thing like an iPod. For most people this thing is way too expensive. A lot of people on here are tech freaks who are prepared to part with a certain part of their income for gadgets like this. John and Jane Doe do not have the will to invest amounts like this. If they had the money then everybody would have had a flatpanel HDTV already.
I would be VERY surprised if Apple did indeed release a product like this.
I COULD see a settop box but it would have been designed together with content providers (read: cable companies) to let this box support all the proprietary stuff out there and I don't see that happening.
We'll see
*Well most use DVB QAM but I'm talking about different encryption schemes and certain proprietary stuff.
And as stated before, this isn't a cheap thing like an iPod. For most people this thing is way too expensive. A lot of people on here are tech freaks who are prepared to part with a certain part of their income for gadgets like this. John and Jane Doe do not have the will to invest amounts like this. If they had the money then everybody would have had a flatpanel HDTV already.
I would be VERY surprised if Apple did indeed release a product like this.
I COULD see a settop box but it would have been designed together with content providers (read: cable companies) to let this box support all the proprietary stuff out there and I don't see that happening.
We'll see
*Well most use DVB QAM but I'm talking about different encryption schemes and certain proprietary stuff.
^ ^ ^
Bingo.
It's also important to consider Europe not as a whole but as separate countries- HD will not be a standard across western Europe (let alone the rest) for another 10-15 years, but the HD roadmap in Britain in much shorter- Sky will broadcast HD this year. Releasing a product such as this might work in the UK, but few other places.
Apple may be working on this, but I doubt we'll see anything on Tuesday.
Bingo.
It's also important to consider Europe not as a whole but as separate countries- HD will not be a standard across western Europe (let alone the rest) for another 10-15 years, but the HD roadmap in Britain in much shorter- Sky will broadcast HD this year. Releasing a product such as this might work in the UK, but few other places.
Apple may be working on this, but I doubt we'll see anything on Tuesday.
chicagdan said:
I agree with this!
Especially point 4). Apple needs to excel on several fronts other than design and engineering. These include:
1) appeal to the investor community for the current/next quarter.
2) production and inventory/supply-line management.
3) public brand/product awareness
4) effective advertising
5) perceived momentum (to public. customers, investors, supporters/partners and [especially] competitors.
6) timing of product announcements, product availability to deliver financial results creating tHis momentum
Fortunately, Apple appears to be doing a great job of all of these-- here are some examples:
-- The skill & timing of the Intel transition
-- Bold upgrade of the iPod line
-- No presence at CES, yet the "Elephant in the room" that drives attention to MWSF
Apple seems to be doing everything right! It remains to be seen if they can maintain the Buzz-- I believe they will
Dick Applebaum
Lunja said:
I agree that we probably won't see any working plasmas on stage. I DO think we'll see:
1) the announcement of a new Apple consumer electronics division
2) some iPod accessories as part of this division
3) the Apple set top box (Mac Mini Media)
Jobs will then say that this is only the start ... stay tuned. If the plasmas are going to ship in March, they'll announce the products then.
I forgot about the iPod products... Aren't there meant to be some "new and exciting ones on the way"?
What time is the keynote by the way? Is it 9am EST, making it 2pm GMT?
What time is the keynote by the way? Is it 9am EST, making it 2pm GMT?
Have you guys been to circuit city or bestbuy? LCDs and Plasmas are about all they sell now, along with some $$ DLPs. I dont know how people afford it (credit card?) but purchasing a TV for 2-3K these days is somehow alot more acceptible in peoples minds than it was a few years ago. Hell, iPods are friggen expensive for what they do, when you think about it, yet alot of people have been forking over some serious money for them for the past few years.
Maybe these are flagship screens for the company, and in 3 months they release a 26" and 32" that are much more affordable, after the blitz about the "next big thing"
We find out in less than 2 days!
Maybe these are flagship screens for the company, and in 3 months they release a 26" and 32" that are much more affordable, after the blitz about the "next big thing"
We find out in less than 2 days!
No, it isn't too expensive for a computer with media center.
People are already buying the 20" iMac for $1700.
This will sell even better, if it is true.
This rumored product is NOT an iPod, it is a computer and high-end HD display.
>That rumored box/screen is WAY too expensive for normal consumers
People are already buying the 20" iMac for $1700.
This will sell even better, if it is true.
This rumored product is NOT an iPod, it is a computer and high-end HD display.
>That rumored box/screen is WAY too expensive for normal consumers