External Display Recommendations - Ultra Widescreen vs Retina

[pento]

Hey all! I'm in the market for a new monitor. My primary computer usage is for software development. I've been racking my brain, looking at all sorts of monitors, and was wondering what y'all are using, or if there are any in particular that you love or I should avoid. Based on prices I've seen, I'm trying to keep the price below the $1400.00 USD mark. I think the couple of things that I'm still waffling on are Retina vs Ultrawide, and at least in the case of Ultrawides, 34" vs 38" display sizes. For reference, I'm coming from a Dell U3014 (30", 2560x1600) that is on the fritz.

Some of the features that appeal to me:
- Retina quality
- Built-in KVM
- Ultra Widescreen (~34"; 3440x1440, ~38"; 3840x1600)
- USB-C (charging supported)
- Few(or none!) compatibility issues with Macs

Features I don't care about:
- 4K Monitors (The native resolution is too small for the size screen I want, and I don't want scaling that isn't 2:1)
- Speakers or speaker quality
- Gaming monitor features such as g-sync, super high refresh rates
- Built-in camera

Of course there is no monitor that checks off all the boxes on my wish list. I love the idea of a retina quality display, such as the LG 27" 5K, but I do wish it had more usable real estate like some of the ultra wides. As far as the KVM switch, only a few models I've seen have that feature(such as the dell displays, which have mixed reviews). I have Mac Pro, and a MacBook Pro, and ideally I would have a setup in place that would allow me to switch between them when I need to 'dock' my MacBook Pro.

Here's the list of monitors I've been taking a close look at:

LG 27" 5K - 27MD5KL-B (Latest generation) [Retina, 95W USB-C Charging, No KVM]
LG 38" - 38WK95C-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
LG 38" - 38UC99-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
LG 34" - 34WK95C-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
Dell 38" U3818DW [Ultrawide, 95W USB-C Charging, KVM, Mixed Mac Reviews]
Dell 34" U3419W [Ultrawide, 95W USB-C Charging, KVM, Mixed Mac Reviews]

I've briefly looked at other makers, such as Acer, Asus, Samsung, BenQ, but none of them had any models that really stood out to me (I may have overlooked something!). The dell displays seem to checkoff a lot of my feature boxes, but I'm concerned about the mixed reviews in terms of Mac compatibility.

That was a mouthful. If you made it this far, what are you using? What do you think? Thanks for your help!

[Update]: Thinking about my setup a little bit more, I do also have a CalDigit TS3+, so I might be able to lean on that to check off some of my feature boxes. I can probably plug my keyboard/mouse into it, along with my display, and then just get an extra TB3 cable dedicated to my secondary computer. Switching I/O Peripherals and displays would then just be a question of swapping one cable with the other.

 

[frou]

As a programmer concentrating on text all the time, you simply do not want to be looking at non-Retina font rendering if you have a choice. It's even worse in macOS since 10.14 where Apple removed subpixel-AA. Retina (~220 PPI) font rendering is gorgeous and supremely readable.

For many use cases, big Ultrawides are great, but when PPI matters, they fail.

Personally I use multiple Iiyama 27" 5Ks, which are standard DisplayPort, hooked to an eGPU. They can be found a lot cheaper than the LG, and use the same panels as the LG/iMac, but the quality control is hit-and-miss.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Hey all! I'm in the market for a new monitor. My primary computer usage is for software development. I've been racking my brain, looking at all sorts of monitors, and was wondering what y'all are using, or if there are any in particular that you love or I should avoid. Based on prices I've seen, I'm trying to keep the price below the $1400.00 USD mark. I think the couple of things that I'm still waffling on are Retina vs Ultrawide, and at least in the case of Ultrawides, 34" vs 38" display sizes. For reference, I'm coming from a Dell U3014 (30", 2560x1600) that is on the fritz.

Some of the features that appeal to me:
- Retina quality
- Built-in KVM
- Ultra Widescreen (~34"; 3440x1440, ~38"; 3840x1600)
- USB-C (charging supported)
- Few(or none!) compatibility issues with Macs

Features I don't care about:
- 4K Monitors (The native resolution is too small for the size screen I want, and I don't want scaling that isn't 2:1)
- Speakers or speaker quality
- Gaming monitor features such as g-sync, super high refresh rates
- Built-in camera

Of course there is no monitor that checks off all the boxes on my wish list. I love the idea of a retina quality display, such as the LG 27" 5K, but I do wish it had more usable real estate like some of the ultra wides. As far as the KVM switch, only a few models I've seen have that feature(such as the dell displays, which have mixed reviews). I have Mac Pro, and a MacBook Pro, and ideally I would have a setup in place that would allow me to switch between them when I need to 'dock' my MacBook Pro.

Here's the list of monitors I've been taking a close look at:

LG 27" 5K - 27MD5KL-B (Latest generation) [Retina, 95W USB-C Charging, No KVM]
LG 38" - 38WK95C-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
LG 38" - 38UC99-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
LG 34" - 34WK95C-W [Ultrawide, 60W USB-C Charging, No KVM, Good Mac Reviews]
Dell 38" U3818DW [Ultrawide, 95W USB-C Charging, KVM, Mixed Mac Reviews]
Dell 34" U3419W [Ultrawide, 95W USB-C Charging, KVM, Mixed Mac Reviews]

I've briefly looked at other makers, such as Acer, Asus, Samsung, BenQ, but none of them had any models that really stood out to me (I may have overlooked something!). The dell displays seem to checkoff a lot of my feature boxes, but I'm concerned about the mixed reviews in terms of Mac compatibility.

That was a mouthful. If you made it this far, what are you using? What do you think? Thanks for your help!

[Update]: Thinking about my setup a little bit more, I do also have a CalDigit TS3+, so I might be able to lean on that to check off some of my feature boxes. I can probably plug my keyboard/mouse into it, along with my display, and then just get an extra TB3 cable dedicated to my secondary computer. Switching I/O Peripherals and displays would then just be a question of swapping one cable with the other.

I've been tempted by the siren song of an Ultrawide, but the LG UltraFine 5K is serving me well with my 16 inch MBP.

 

[afallnstar]

I'm currently using a 49" LG super ultra wide (5120 x 1440p) resolution and I had to stop using it on my Mac entirely. It's not used exclusively on my gaming PC. The resolution leaves something to be desired, but that issue is made worse by the poor resolution options in Mac OS.

I've had the Ultrafine 5k (quality was fantastic), as well as a few 34" ultrawides. The resolution usually lacks on them but they're aesthetically pleasing and I love the added width for working on multiple documents at once.

 

[pento]

I'm currently using a 49" LG super ultra wide (5120 x 1440p) resolution and I had to stop using it on my Mac entirely. It's not used exclusively on my gaming PC. The resolution leaves something to be desired, but that issue is made worse by the poor resolution options in Mac OS.

I've had the Ultrafine 5k (quality was fantastic), as well as a few 34" ultrawides. The resolution usually lacks on them but they're aesthetically pleasing and I love the added width for working on multiple documents at once.

Thanks for the post! So which monitor are you currently using with your Mac? The 5k or the UltraWide?

 

[afallnstar]

I picked up a 16" Macbook Pro (need to update my signature), so I use the MBP on the go. Still have the PC connected to the 49".

 

[fiatlux]

You could also try two 27' 4k monitors side by side. In scaled HiDPI resolution (1920x1080) they would give you a combined 3840x1080 desktop with close to Retina effect (circa 160dpi vs 220 on the LG 5k).

 

[igetit]

I'm in the same boat, I currently have a LG HDR 4K Display 31.5" and although I like it well enough the resolution is just not there compared to the screen on my MacBook Pro 15" I keep looking at the Ultrafine 5K (model B) but I am unsure if I want a smaller screen with better resolution or a larger screen with inferior resolution.

I also have been entertaining getting two Ultrafine 24" 4K and daisy chaining them, this setup is only $100 more than getting a single Ultrafine 5K though you forgo the webcam and I guess the 5K resolution by going down to 4K.

 

[WP31]

Hey Pento - I completely get what you're asking. I've been poking around looking for the same answer and am not sure there is one. I have both a 27" LG5kUF and a 34" LGUW connected to a 2018 MBP (and I use a BMeGPU on the UF). I run them both at 1440 vertical resolution which is native for the UW and 1/2 scale for the UF. So I look at a wide (34") but 'normal' DPI screen and a normal width (27") but HiDPI screen beside each other. I cannot unsee the DPI difference but I can't use less screen real estate. One day I'll make a decision and fully commit in either direction but until then I'll continue to subject myself to the best and worst of both worlds. ...One thing that makes me lean toward 2 x 27" LGUFs is the Apple integration. I'm annoyed with the need to click a button 5-10 times just to increase or decrease brightness throughout the day on the LGUW.

 

[MecPro]

OP what did you decide?

I am running 2 x 27" LG UL850's but I think I am ready to give one to my GF and get a 32" as one other monitor. Problem is the Retina isn't there, but I sit quite far from my screens (about 3ft/37") from my screens when sitting upright.

At the moment I am running the screens at 2048x1152 which to me is very smooth and I see 0 raggedy edges - just a bit of blur sometimes, but that could also be my eyes in general.

2 questions:

1) Why did Apple remove the sub-pixel AA rendering?
2) Why does no manufacture make a native 5K 32" screen? (not LGs weird 5K2K nonsense)

I am probably going not going to get a new MBP for another few years as I have a 2016 model which runs perfectly fine for what I do (cyber security, so VMs and coding really) for the next 2 years. So I have the money to invest in a solid monitor setup, but I just feel like I should wait and see if anyone does a 5K 32" in a few years time

 

[pento]

OP what did you decide?

I am running 2 x 27" LG UL850's but I think I am ready to give one to my GF and get a 32" as one other monitor. Problem is the Retina isn't there, but I sit quite far from my screens (about 3ft/37") from my screens when sitting upright.

At the moment I am running the screens at 2048x1152 which to me is very smooth and I see 0 raggedy edges - just a bit of blur sometimes, but that could also be my eyes in general.

2 questions:

1) Why did Apple remove the sub-pixel AA rendering?
2) Why does no manufacture make a native 5K 32" screen? (not LGs weird 5K2K nonsense)

I am probably going not going to get a new MBP for another few years as I have a 2016 model which runs perfectly fine for what I do (cyber security, so VMs and coding really) for the next 2 years. So I have the money to invest in a solid monitor setup, but I just feel like I should wait and see if anyone does a 5K 32" in a few years time

Good questions - I've asked myself similar, wish I had an answer for you. It would be awesome to have a 6k display like the XDR just without all of the extra fancy stuff that drives up the price. As a developer, I know I'd enjoy that size screen and resolution with retina quality graphics.

I ended up going with the latest revision of the LG 27" 5k display. Coming from my old Dell 30", I lost 200px of effective vertical space, but I haven't really noticed it all that much. With the viewing distance that I use a desktop monitor, the retina quality isn't as noticeable to me as it was on an iPad or MBP, but it's still very nice. I wish I had more horizontal screen real estate, so I might buy a second monitor to use with it at some point down the road. Right now, my desk setup doesn't lend itself too well to a having a second monitor, so I'll have to work that out.

 

[WP31]

Hey MecPro - IANAL (or, more appropriately, I am not an Apple expert, I'm just a dude on a forum, but I've been wondering why no one makes a good >27", relatively cheap (read, not reference) 5k monitor and I feel like I have a decent idea but it's all conjecture and I'll probably not explain myself well here but here goes.

I think the first issue is that there just isn't a lot of demand for 5k monitors. You, me and probably a few others would buy one but I just don't think there is enough of us (there are dozens of us, dozens!) for manufacturers to make 'em. Obviously LG makes a panel that they and Apple use, and I think Dell used it in its old 5k monitor, but that's it (I think) and very few people bought any of those. So number one is - there's just not enough demand.

My second thought is harder for me to explain so please forgive any confusion here. If we constrain the discussion to desktop monitors used in a traditional desk setting, meaning sitting or standing roughly 18-30 inches away from a screen, a 5k monitor would need to be 50ish or more inches in physical size for most people to see items (text, icons, etc.). Let's ignore the "I like small items" or "I can see things when they are small, crew, they are outliers and not the 'normal' monitor buyer. Most people would need the screen to be large to see all the stuff on it. Apple and LG "fix" that by natively displaying everything at half the "resolution", or 2560x1440. Yes, you can change or scale that up or down, and yes that places a tax on the GPU and/or CPU, but for most people 2560x1440 looks best at ~27 inches. So what we get is the iMac and the LG5k at 27" and the resolution they natively show is 2560x1440. If you get a chance, go into a store and change the display setting to "true" 5k (5120x2880) and see how small everything is. In order to see everything at true 5k, you would need a monitor twice the size of 27 inches (54 inches) and people generally just don't want that. So I've rambled here but it makes sense to me, 5k is awesome but it needs a large screen to be useful...generally.

Of course the third reason is the throughput necessary to drive all that video. Basically, only TB3 can really drive it well via a single cable. There are other (DP1.3 & 1.4) input/output standards that will work now but they are not standard or normal. FWIW it eats up ~22Gbps of throughput and there are just not a lot of standards that can handle it. Yes yes yes, I know that people on this and other forums are intimately familiar with ports and cables and standards but most aren't. Most people will buy a 5k, plug in their HDMI cable and say "why does this not work?". And this isn't even getting around to the GPU necessary to drive 5k. Just a year or three ago many laptop and non-gaming desktops couldn't drive 5k. Many budget ones can't still.

bottom line = you're in the elite 1% buddy! Watch out, the unclean masses might try to burn you at the stake. (kidding!)

 

[jingo_man]

Great insights here to mull over... My intention is for using with a 12" MacBook (single USB-C cable, that I need to power the device as well as any extra devices attached over time / use), with typical multiple-purpose uses - many office documents, browser, email, Xcode (though not professionally) and other coding environments.

Most preferential is the PPI. For me, I am weighing this up against cost and also extra devices (hubs, etc) I may need to insert in the middle with my current laptop. This is using on a typical desk based solution.

Occasionally I plug in extra devices (via USB-C mostly to run a Windows VM or sync/backup to a USB-C SSD. Or USB-A if I connect my iPhone or other devices) where I would have to accept either reducing a 4K60 resolution or the lower USB2 speeds of the extra devices. I have looked at a Cablematters 201053-SIL-E that has a physical switch between the 30 & 60 fps/Hz modes. When considering this at £160 on top of the monitor, I wonder if a more performant monitor would be better future proofing and if it actually does as is described, not requiring reboots in-between, etc.

Apple and LG "fix" that by natively displaying everything at half the "resolution", or 2560x1440. Yes, you can change or scale that up or down, and yes that places a tax on the GPU and/or CPU, but for most people 2560x1440 looks best at ~27 inches. So what we get is the iMac and the LG5k at 27" and the resolution they natively show is 2560x1440

@WP31 - I haven't been in store to look at the 5k screens. The default resolution is actually 2560x1440? Looking to achieve the best quality to price outcome, would the most sensible / logical approach be to actually get a 27" 2560x1440 (QHD) monitor? Price will be much lower, if the resolution would likely be reduced in any case?

Personally I use multiple Iiyama 27" 5Ks, which are standard DisplayPort, hooked to an eGPU. They can be found a lot cheaper than the LG, and use the same panels as the LG/iMac, but the quality control is hit-and-miss.

@frou is this true? Under the same price/performance ratio, again would it be more logical to get the Iilyama 27" 1440p rather than the LG equivalent?

 

[WP31]

Hey Jingo_man: Yeah man, the LG5K default resolution is 2560 x 1440 (see attachment) but it's effectively 4 times the pixels of normal 2560 x 1440 so it's High DPI, or HiDPI. That is what Apple started calling "Retina" a while back, which is just marketing speak for more pixels. It is the same 'resolution' as any other 2560 x 1440 monitor but it looks a lot...better (for lack of a better word). Items look clearer, crisper, less jagged, etc., which makes sense because there is 4 x as many pixels in each item.


It's kind of like the old 'what DPI do you want to print at question for photos - each photo will print out at 3"x5" (9cm x 12cm, I think) but a higher DPI printout will look better. Same with monitors. The big question is, is that HiDPI worth the extra cost of a 'normal' 2560 x1440 monitor. Each person will have their own opinion but you can get some very good QHD monitors for very cheap these days. On the other hand, if you are able to spend a little money, a used LG5K can be found for ~$750 in the US. That comes with a built in camera and speakers, a single TB3 cable for power and video, a built in USB hub, and macOS native integration (your Mac automagically controls the audio and brightness). Plus it's one of the very few monitors that Apple backs. It's essentially made for Macs. If those things are worth it to you, and you can afford the premium, it's a nice monitor.

 

[asus389]

FYI - the Dell 38" U3818DW has a bug in the USB-C PD implementation that makes it not work correctly. Despite it being a nice display, I sent it back for this reason. I am pretty sure it effects the U3419W also. See:

Reddit: Dell USB-C Bugs

 

[jingo_man]

@WP31 many thanks for the explanation. A similarly worded Macrumors thread came up on the same subject from my other web search / queries.

From this info, I started searching around the subject of 27" 4K monitors, "text too small", etc. There are a few useful Youtube videos on the subject. One guy, a photographer, suggesting (quite reasonably) to alternate the "scaling" setting based upon your currently use-case. For photo editing (presumably his primary job function), he would use 1 setting. General use (email, browsing, office documents, etc) he would set to another.

My follow up question is what tax / overhead does "scaling" apply to the GPU/CPU/SoC? I am more wary of this using the 12" MacBook with its mobile-based processor. I upgraded to the i7 model, but it is still restricted and is an integrated GPU.

I understand the principle and might expect downscaling to Full HD (1980x1080) to be easier on processing as its a 2:1 ratio. Looking at other sites, the scaling options for a 4K monitor would be:

Resolution Name	Resolution	Larger Text				More Space
DCI 4K	4096 x 2160	2048 x 1080	2560 x 1350	3008 x 1586	3360 x 1772	4096 x 2160
DCI Scaling %		200%	160%	136%	122%	100%
4K UHD	3840 x 2160	1920 x 1080	2560 x 1440	3008 x 1692	3360 x 1890	3840 x 2160
UHD Scaling %		200%	150%	127%	114%	100%

For example, using the 2nd 150% (2560x1440) scale option on a 4K UHD monitor with a 1.5:1 ratio, what performance impact / overhead could be expected? Or none at all and the OS abstracts this away or handles it?

 

[frou]

@WP31 There's an official name for the concept you're touching on: Points (as opposed to pixels). When you're in the Displays system preferences pane and it has the five choices left-to-right and the "Looks like X×Y" label, think of that as Points, not pixels. https://developer.apple.com/library...al/HighResolutionOSX/Explained/Explained.html

There's the same concept on iOS, only it's even more pronounced there because devices exist with "Super Retina" grade display hardware ("@3x") as well as devices with Retina ("@2x") and and ancient devices ("@1x"). There's a great graphic here showing how the various iPhones stack up in those terms (Look at iPhone XR vs iPhone XS for an interesting example. Also the "Plus" models are the only iPhones with any "scaling" (as it is called in macOS) going on): https://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/ultimate-guide-to-iphone-resolutions

@frou is this true? Under the same price/performance ratio, again would it be more logical to get the Iilyama 27" 1440p rather than the LG equivalent?

I don't know what quality panels LG or Iiyama use for their QHD models. Buyer beware.

On the general topic of QHD 27" vs 5K 27" displays, particularly in modern macOS whose low-DPI font rendering is worse than it used to be, they are a completely different ballgame (which is reflected in the price difference). If you are remotely fussy, you will notice the difference immediately.

 

[pcdsl]

From this info, I started searching around the subject of 27" 4K monitors, "text too small", etc. There are a few useful Youtube videos on the subject. One guy, a photographer, suggesting (quite reasonably) to alternate the "scaling" setting based upon your currently use-case. For photo editing (presumably his primary job function), he would use 1 setting. General use (email, browsing, office documents, etc) he would set to another.

My follow up question is what tax / overhead does "scaling" apply to the GPU/CPU/SoC? I am more wary of this using the 12" MacBook with its mobile-based processor. I upgraded to the i7 model, but it is still restricted and is an integrated GPU.

FYI, I have a 2018 Macbook Pro 15" with the Vega 20 GPU. When I use the 2560x1440 scaling on the LG 27UL850 27" 4K display I notice that the GPU memory is usually maxed out at 99%. The processor doesn't ramp up much, just the memory. I really like this monitor but I think I might return it as I have the LG 5K on order.

 

[WP31]

@WP31 There's an official name for the concept you're touching on: Points (as opposed to pixels). When you're in the Displays system preferences pane and it has the five choices left-to-right and the "Looks like X×Y" label, think of that as Points, not pixels. https://developer.apple.com/library...al/HighResolutionOSX/Explained/Explained.html

There's the same concept on iOS, only it's even more pronounced there because devices exist with "Super Retina" grade display hardware ("@3x") as well as devices with Retina ("@2x") and and ancient devices ("@1x"). There's a great graphic here showing how the various iPhones stack up in those terms (Look at iPhone XR vs iPhone XS for an interesting example. Also the "Plus" models are the only iPhones with any "scaling" (as it is called in macOS) going on): https://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/ultimate-guide-to-iphone-resolutions


I don't know what quality panels LG or Iiyama use for their QHD models. Buyer beware.

On the general topic of QHD 27" vs 5K 27" displays, particularly in modern macOS whose low-DPI font rendering is worse than it used to be, they are a completely different ballgame (which is reflected in the price difference). If you are remotely fussy, you will notice the difference immediately.

Thanks frou - links saved(!) and 'points' = added to my lingo. Great info.

 

[nicnic77]

I looked into this myself for quite some time and decided ultrawides are not an option due to all the complaints people have with them. Instead, I went with 2 x LG Ultrafine Monitors (24MD4KL).

Imagine my horror when I discovered the new Mac Mini M1 doesn't support 2 thunderbolt displays. I can either stay Intel or start researching the monitor market once again! I really don't want to go back to single displays, my workflow is all about dual screens.