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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

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Are you experiencing this issue?

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Drj44 said:
So, today is my first day after receiving the air and i really want it work. So far it doesnotseem good. I feel irritated looking at the screen, slight headache between the eyes, when look upi have a hard time focusing and this is with PWM toggle on and 120Hz… i will try a bit longer but i am not optimistic.
I have to wonder though, has there ever been a physiological study that links PWM to our issues? What if if was something completely different?
Click to expand...

I’ve spoken to a top neuro ophthalmologist in New York as my sensitivities began after a COVID infection in 2022. The answer is far too much to write in this thread, but suffice to say, there is a segment of the population sensitive to a lot of this stuff and this population is virtually the entirety of that these specialists see.

Your symptoms (specifically focusing issues) are the exact same symptoms I get when exposed to low frequency flicker. I get this pretty badly with dithering on Apple MacBooks. The GPU dithering on MacBooks is approximately 15Hz. FRC is approximately 30Hz but can go lower.

This is flicker sensitivity. It’s a neurological sensitivity that can have a variety of causes. It’s very common in long COVID, ME/CFS, Lupus, and other autoimmune disorders. Of course epilepsy is the most well-known manifestitation.

Some have found they have convergence issues with their eyes, astigmatism, and other underlying health issues. It’s all dependent upon the person but in my experience you’re dealing with a neurological sensitivity that affects the nervous system and the eye muscles.

I’ve tested several computers and it typically goes in the pattern of at first you might seem okay. Then it hits you later that day or the next day. You become more sensitive to lights and screens of all types - even ones you’re used to using. Tolerance for flickering LEDs or fluorescents drops. And if you keep pushing it gets worse until you stop using the device and recover.

I’ve spent the past 7 months desperately learning and trying to find out why my iPhone 13 on iOS 15 is usable but virtually every other Apple computer is a problem. It’s complex. Eliminating flicker in the form of PWM and dithering is an absolute must because otherwise you don’t have a “clean” signal to identify what other triggers might be. There’s so much but flicker is the biggest and most debilitating trigger. It seems like some of us can tolerate it at very low modulation depths…but these iPhones are close to 100% modulation at all brightness levels. I don’t know whether iOS 26 dithers, but I’d imagine it does.
 
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AshX said:
I’ve spoken to a top neuro ophthalmologist in New York as my sensitivities began after a COVID infection in 2022. The answer is far too much to write in this thread, but suffice to say, there is a segment of the population sensitive to a lot of this stuff and this population is virtually the entirety of that these specialists see.

Your symptoms (specifically focusing issues) are the exact same symptoms I get when exposed to low frequency flicker. I get this pretty badly with dithering on Apple MacBooks. The GPU dithering on MacBooks is approximately 15Hz. FRC is approximately 30Hz but can go lower.

This is flicker sensitivity. It’s a neurological sensitivity that can have a variety of causes. It’s very common in long COVID, ME/CFS, Lupus, and other autoimmune disorders. Of course epilepsy is the most well-known manifestitation.

Some have found they have convergence issues with their eyes, astigmatism, and other underlying health issues. It’s all dependent upon the person but in my experience you’re dealing with a neurological sensitivity that affects the nervous system and the eye muscles.

I’ve tested several computers and it typically goes in the pattern of at first you might seem okay. Then it hits you later that day or the next day. You become more sensitive to lights and screens of all types - even ones you’re used to using. Tolerance for flickering LEDs or fluorescents drops. And if you keep pushing it gets worse until you stop using the device and recover.

I’ve spent the past 7 months desperately learning and trying to find out why my iPhone 13 on iOS 15 is usable but virtually every other Apple computer is a problem. It’s complex. Eliminating flicker in the form of PWM and dithering is an absolute must because otherwise you don’t have a “clean” signal to identify what other triggers might be. There’s so much but flicker is the biggest and most debilitating trigger. It seems like some of us can tolerate it at very low modulation depths…but these iPhones are close to 100% modulation at all brightness levels. I don’t know whether iOS 26 dithers, but I’d imagine it does.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that is very interesting. Are you aware of any new scientific publication? I think one of the big difficulty is the lack of objective metric for comparing display. You see that on this forum where some people are OK with certain models where others are not it seems like the PWM or designing is either a part of the story or is very people dependent.. it would be great if there was a physical measurement of the response of the optical nerve to different frequencies to quantify this effect maybe with two populations, one with sensitivity and a control without. I know they can do that because I have an eye condition and I do go to hospitals for this type of measurement to measure the response of the coins and rods.
I also suffer from Parkinson’s disease and I wonder if there could be a relationship to the sensitivity-
 
AshX said:
I’ve spoken to a top neuro ophthalmologist in New York as my sensitivities began after a COVID infection in 2022. The answer is far too much to write in this thread, but suffice to say, there is a segment of the population sensitive to a lot of this stuff and this population is virtually the entirety of that these specialists see.

Your symptoms (specifically focusing issues) are the exact same symptoms I get when exposed to low frequency flicker. I get this pretty badly with dithering on Apple MacBooks. The GPU dithering on MacBooks is approximately 15Hz. FRC is approximately 30Hz but can go lower.

This is flicker sensitivity. It’s a neurological sensitivity that can have a variety of causes. It’s very common in long COVID, ME/CFS, Lupus, and other autoimmune disorders. Of course epilepsy is the most well-known manifestitation.

Some have found they have convergence issues with their eyes, astigmatism, and other underlying health issues. It’s all dependent upon the person but in my experience you’re dealing with a neurological sensitivity that affects the nervous system and the eye muscles.

I’ve tested several computers and it typically goes in the pattern of at first you might seem okay. Then it hits you later that day or the next day. You become more sensitive to lights and screens of all types - even ones you’re used to using. Tolerance for flickering LEDs or fluorescents drops. And if you keep pushing it gets worse until you stop using the device and recover.

I’ve spent the past 7 months desperately learning and trying to find out why my iPhone 13 on iOS 15 is usable but virtually every other Apple computer is a problem. It’s complex. Eliminating flicker in the form of PWM and dithering is an absolute must because otherwise you don’t have a “clean” signal to identify what other triggers might be. There’s so much but flicker is the biggest and most debilitating trigger. It seems like some of us can tolerate it at very low modulation depths…but these iPhones are close to 100% modulation at all brightness levels. I don’t know whether iOS 26 dithers, but I’d imagine it does.
Click to expand...
Does the usage of such screens cause permanent damage? Or when you stop using them the eyes recover?
 
Drj44 said:
I am curious, is the 16e so much better than the other phones? Is that everyone experience? I am asking because i still tely on my IP11
Click to expand...

I buyed a 16e for my mother and i had no problems in the time where i configured the phone for her, i my opinion it was great for my eyes, no nausea, no dizziness.

I send my iPhone 17 Pro back to Apple, i hoped that i adapt to the Display, but i doesnt work. I don't want to spend so much money on a smartphone and then walk around feeling nauseous and dizzy all day. I'm a little mad at myself for not checking the OLED panel.
 
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PwmMen said:
I am still enthusiastic about the iPhone 17 Pro Max.
My eyes, head and neck have never been so relaxed when using a smartphone with OLED.
I hope it stays that way, because then I'm happy.
Click to expand...
That's great to hear that you don't have any issues! Hope I have the same experience. Do you know which panel you have?

There's a thread comparing the different types, was hoping one would be better than the other for PWM sensitive users. My 17 Pro will come in a couple of weeks and am curious what the best panel would be.

 
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left shark fan said:
That's great to hear that you don't have any issues! Hope I have the same experience. Do you know which panel you have?

There's a thread comparing the different types, was hoping one would be better than the other for PWM sensitive users. My 17 Pro will come in a couple of weeks and am curious what the best panel would be.

Click to expand...
Maybe he got the LG Panel since its 65 percent for the 17 pro max
 

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PwmMen said:
Is there an easy way to find out?
Click to expand...
I haven't tried it myself yet but saw this in the screen lottery thread :)

“For those wondering how to check your display manufacturer...

You can run sysdiagnose on your phone (press volume up, volume down, and lock button) all together for around a second. You will feel the phone vibrate. --- If this doesn't work I think this can be an alternative I saw on Reddit (the rest of the steps stay the same) -> Accessibility - Touch - Assistive Touch. Turn it on, set the single tap action to be Analytics. When you see the circle button on the screen, click it. It will then say something on the top called Gathering Analytics).

Wait a couple of minutes and then go to Settings -> Privacy and Security -> Analytics and Improvements -> Analytics Data.

You will then scroll down and look for a file titled: sysdiagnose_XXXXXXXX.

You will click on that file and then click the arrow in the upper right hand corner and scroll down and click “Save to Files” Once it is saved you will go into your files and click the file to unpack it.

Within the folder that is unpacked you will click on the folder “ioreg” and then click the file “IODeviceTree”.

You will then use the magnifying search glass in the bottom right hand corner to search “raw-panel”. It will then give you a serial number.

I have an LG display which has the beginning letters of GH3.

GVC is the best of the LG panels but not as good as Samsung’s best which is the G9N."
 
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left shark fan said:
I haven't tried it myself yet but saw this in the screen lottery thread :)

“For those wondering how to check your display manufacturer...

You can run sysdiagnose on your phone (press volume up, volume down, and lock button) all together for around a second. You will feel the phone vibrate. --- If this doesn't work I think this can be an alternative I saw on Reddit (the rest of the steps stay the same) -> Accessibility - Touch - Assistive Touch. Turn it on, set the single tap action to be Analytics. When you see the circle button on the screen, click it. It will then say something on the top called Gathering Analytics).

Wait a couple of minutes and then go to Settings -> Privacy and Security -> Analytics and Improvements -> Analytics Data.

You will then scroll down and look for a file titled: sysdiagnose_XXXXXXXX.

You will click on that file and then click the arrow in the upper right hand corner and scroll down and click “Save to Files” Once it is saved you will go into your files and click the file to unpack it.

Within the folder that is unpacked you will click on the folder “ioreg” and then click the file “IODeviceTree”.

You will then use the magnifying search glass in the bottom right hand corner to search “raw-panel”. It will then give you a serial number.

I have an LG display which has the beginning letters of GH3.

GVC is the best of the LG panels but not as good as Samsung’s best which is the G9N."
Click to expand...
I followed the instructions going the accessibility route and they worked perfectly. I have an LG GVC panel which supposedly is the best of the LG panels but not as good as the Samsung G9N.
 
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AshX said:
I’ve spoken to a top neuro ophthalmologist in New York as my sensitivities began after a COVID infection in 2022. The answer is far too much to write in this thread, but suffice to say, there is a segment of the population sensitive to a lot of this stuff and this population is virtually the entirety of that these specialists see.

Your symptoms (specifically focusing issues) are the exact same symptoms I get when exposed to low frequency flicker. I get this pretty badly with dithering on Apple MacBooks. The GPU dithering on MacBooks is approximately 15Hz. FRC is approximately 30Hz but can go lower.

This is flicker sensitivity. It’s a neurological sensitivity that can have a variety of causes. It’s very common in long COVID, ME/CFS, Lupus, and other autoimmune disorders. Of course epilepsy is the most well-known manifestitation.

Some have found they have convergence issues with their eyes, astigmatism, and other underlying health issues. It’s all dependent upon the person but in my experience you’re dealing with a neurological sensitivity that affects the nervous system and the eye muscles.

I’ve tested several computers and it typically goes in the pattern of at first you might seem okay. Then it hits you later that day or the next day. You become more sensitive to lights and screens of all types - even ones you’re used to using. Tolerance for flickering LEDs or fluorescents drops. And if you keep pushing it gets worse until you stop using the device and recover.

I’ve spent the past 7 months desperately learning and trying to find out why my iPhone 13 on iOS 15 is usable but virtually every other Apple computer is a problem. It’s complex. Eliminating flicker in the form of PWM and dithering is an absolute must because otherwise you don’t have a “clean” signal to identify what other triggers might be. There’s so much but flicker is the biggest and most debilitating trigger. It seems like some of us can tolerate it at very low modulation depths…but these iPhones are close to 100% modulation at all brightness levels. I don’t know whether iOS 26 dithers, but I’d imagine it does.
Click to expand...
This is very interesting. I've seen quite a few specialists (including a neuro ophthalmologist) and for the most part nobody has seemed to hear about this. Does the person you saw have any "treatment" options? Or even any hypothesis as to what system/mechanism in the body causes these issues?

I'm in the same boat as you in that I can't use anything beyond iOS 15 except for an iPhone SE3 that is on 16.1.1. (I also can't use iOS 15 versions that have the latest "security" updates beyond roughly February 2024)
 
The.Glorious.Son said:
I followed the instructions going the accessibility route and they worked perfectly. I have an LG GVC panel which supposedly is the best of the LG panels but not as good as the Samsung G9N.
Click to expand...
On one of the iPhone 17's? Which iPhones did you have issues with and what are you currently using? Did you notice you had less issues with certain displays (LG vs. Samsung)?
 
BigBen2493 said:
Which iPhone did you get?
Click to expand...
I am trying the 17 Pro Max. So far it has been pretty good, though not as calm as the 15 PM I have been on which is the only OLED phone I have been able to use (no go on the X, all XS-14 options, and the other three 15 options. I skipped trying the 16 series entirely). I wholeheartedly feel for anyone still needing to resort to the 11 or SE models given they are getting long in the tooth now, so you won't hear me complain being able to use the 15PM. Just sucks that this is even a thing, let along something that Apple doesn't seem keen on investing in.
 
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left shark fan said:
On one of the iPhone 17's? Which iPhones did you have issues with and what are you currently using? Did you notice you had less issues with certain displays (LG vs. Samsung)?
Click to expand...
Yeah the LG panel I mentioned is on the 17 Pro Max I am trying. I had a great first day with it, bad second day with it, and it has been fine for the most part since though my 15 PM is a more comfortable experience for me.

My issues began with the X and from there I tried all models of the XS -15 and only the 15 Pro Max has been usable for me. I skipped trying the 16 series all together. Unfortunately, I cannot offer much insight because this is the first time I have actually checked to see the panel I have.

I am not one who has experienced anything negative by updating iOS along the way but I will say, iOS 26 to me is not very eye-friendly but that might just be me. I still have 18.6 running on my 15PM and it is much easier on my eyes than iOS 26 with all of the transitions, layering, brightness, bugs, etc.
 
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