Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[ghanwani]

You live in America. Go buy the Motorola Stylus 2025 and enjoy AMOLED without any eye issues. (2026 Stylus and 2026 Edge 2026 should also work).

The issue here is the OS. I have never used Android. Of course, I am now an unhappy Windows user after being a Mac user from 2010-2022 just so I could resolve the dithering issue. So I may be forced to do the same with phone, but unlike Windows which I have used for work all along, I have zero experience with Android.

Switching to Android also means I will have to toss my HomePod, learn to use Android Auto in the car (I use CarPlay exclusively foregoing the car's OS), cancel my Apple Music & iCloud subscriptions, and figure out what to do for music in terms of a speaker and streaming service. That's a lot. 🙁

 

[jimmy_uk]

Rushed to my local Costco because they hadn’t updated the in-store price of the iPad 11 to match Apple’s crazy price hikes. I’ve been using it for a day now with no issues at all - just turned on Reduce Motion and kept the brightness at 50% or lower.

I’m more than happy with the £299 price and honestly feel stupid for not buying one sooner. The FOMO will be a lot weaker once the iPad 12 launches later this year due to the new prices.

Fingers crossed no eye strain ahead.

 

[astr0naut1210]

I’ve been following this thread since the iPhone X because I couldn’t use it due to PWM sensitivity. Two days ago, I got a base-model iPhone 17, and honestly, it wasn’t that bad. I do experience some eye strain, but it’s tolerable.


For the past eight years, I’ve been using the iPhone XR and iPhone 11. They are incredibly solid phones and have served me well.


In case anyone is interested, my iPhone 17 has an LG display, and it seems to be more eye-friendly than the Samsung display.

 

[now i see it]

Clouds on the horizon folks. Or might I say a Category 5 hurricane is imminent.
We’re screwed.

Apple Plans Wider Color Gamut for Future MacBook Pro, iMac, and iPad Pro

Apple plans to adopt OLED panels capable of displaying a much wider range of colors, according to a new report from research firm TrendForce. The new panels would cover 95% of the BT.2020 color standard, which describes a far broader spectrum of colors than the DCI-P3 standard Apple's screens...

www.macrumors.com

 

[scooterdooter]

The issue here is the OS. I have never used Android. Of course, I am now an unhappy Windows user after being a Mac user from 2010-2022 just so I could resolve the dithering issue. So I may be forced to do the same with phone, but unlike Windows which I have used for work all along, I have zero experience with Android.

Switching to Android also means I will have to toss my HomePod, learn to use Android Auto in the car (I use CarPlay exclusively foregoing the car's OS), cancel my Apple Music & iCloud subscriptions, and figure out what to do for music in terms of a speaker and streaming service. That's a lot. 🙁

unhappy Windows user --> happy desktop linux user with whatever OS VM you want to run. Debian, fedora, etc allow you to control the OS, hardware, and remove eye strain.

What's the point of vendor lock-in if you get eye strain 24/7/365 with all of that vendor's products?

 

[ghanwani]

unhappy Windows user --> happy desktop linux user with whatever OS VM you want to run. Debian, fedora, etc allow you to control the OS, hardware, and remove eye strain.

What's the point of vendor lock-in if you get eye strain 24/7/365 with all of that vendor's products?

Would like to move to Linux but it has a few problems:
- It takes some effort to get it going and stay on top of things. Where to go for support? What about hardware support? My machine is under warranty for 3 years. Anytime something goes wrong, I need an OS on there that is supported by the vendor.
- I need Windows or MacOS to run standalone tax software (TurboTax in my case). I'm not ready to go web yet. This means running OS within a VM on Linux which again takes effort and sometimes runs into difficult to resolve issues. Dual boot seems like it has issues, esp with Windows 11.

I don't mind being an unhappy Windows user. I can live with it. At least no eyestrain using the laptop. I would like to see more native Linux laptops with EyeSafe displays.

I need an alternative to iOS and the ecosystem (music, etc.). All options look painful and have a steep learning curve. For phone, would probably go with Motorola LCD, but haven't thought about what to do for music.

 

[scooterdooter]

Would like to move to Linux but it has a few problems:
- It takes some effort to get it going and stay on top of things. Where to go for support? What about hardware support? My machine is under warranty for 3 years. Anytime something goes wrong, I need an OS on there that is supported by the vendor.
- I need Windows or MacOS to run standalone tax software (TurboTax in my case). I'm not ready to go web yet. This means running OS within a VM on Linux which again takes effort and sometimes runs into difficult to resolve issues. Dual boot seems like it has issues, esp with Windows 11.

I don't mind being an unhappy Windows user. I can live with it. At least no eyestrain using the laptop. I would like to see more native Linux laptops with EyeSafe displays.

I need an alternative to iOS and the ecosystem (music, etc.). All options look painful and have a steep learning curve. For phone, would probably go with Motorola LCD, but haven't thought about what to do for music.

• Dell, lenovo, HP, etc sell systems with linux preinstalled and with a warranty. e.g. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/appref=ubuntu-linux-os
• Win11 VM will run windows turbotax. Microsoft provides legal Win11 ISO files to anyone.

In America due to ridiculous whitelisting of devices, your choices are Moto or Oneplus 15/15r.

iphone 18 - no change at all:

iPhone 18e Won't Get ProMotion Display, Says Leaker

Apple's upcoming iPhone 18e will have the same display refresh rate as the existing iPhone 17e, according to a prominent Chinese leaker. Discussing Apple's product plans for 2027 in a Weibo post, Digital Chat Station claimed that the next generation of Apple's low-cost iPhone will feature the...

www.macrumors.com

Apple doesn't care at all because no one will actually leave Apple.

 

[GlenK]

Finally iPhone 17 Pro is not giving me headaches. Four days and nothing. No special settings, just a little brighter than usual.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Finally iPhone 17 Pro is not giving me headaches. Four days and nothing. No special settings, just a little brighter than usual.

Great news. Keeping them crossed for you 🤞

 

[dannyh5319]

Finally iPhone 17 Pro is not giving me headaches. Four days and nothing. No special settings, just a little brighter than usual.

Which display pannel?

 

[GlenK]

Just the standard. Started it up and it just worked Only adjusted the brightness a little and it worked fine.

 

[DJTaurus]

Just the standard. Started it up and it just worked Only adjusted the brightness a little and it worked fine.

Can you check if you have a Samsung or and LG manufactured panel ?

 

[john g.]

Just curious if there are folks who are running the iOS 27 beta on their 17 series phones?
If so, I have a question for you, is the display pulse smoothing switch still offered in iOS 27?

I would imagine it is but you never know.
Thank you.

 

[martin2345uk]

Just curious if there are folks who are running the iOS 27 beta on their 17 series phones?
If so, I have a question for you, is the display pulse smoothing switch still offered in iOS 27?

I would imagine it is but you never know.
Thank you.

Yes it's still there

 

[scooterdooter]

OnePlus officially exits Europe and North America, will continue in India

The announcement follows weeks of rumors and speculations. OnePlus has announced that it will be exiting the European and North American markets. In a...

www.gsmarena.com

Oneplus is gone from NA and EU. That leaves Motorola as the sole source of non-flickering smartphones in USA.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Just curious if there are folks who are running the iOS 27 beta on their 17 series phones?
If so, I have a question for you, is the display pulse smoothing switch still offered in iOS 27?

I would imagine it is but you never know.
Thank you.

I would pretty much guarantee that they won’t remove the setting on devices that shipped with it, as it’s a hardware feature. Not that it does much in my opinion, or not even close to enough.

Upgrading remains almost impossible, frankly. It’s not even mild discomfort: I’d still have to compromise with a severe headache response. It’s great that it works for some people, even if I’m not seeing enough of an improvement.

The fact that an Accessibility setting exists is promising, but they have to really make it more comprehensive to the point there’s no measurable flickering with extremely low modulations.

I need to start a new campaign about this before iPhone 18 launches. I’ve been slacking on contacting Apple and the Accessibility team with this feedback, although I do think they monitor this thread and the PWM-sensitive communities.

 

[ghanwani]

although I do think they monitor this thread and the PWM-sensitive communities.

Are you serious?

 

[scooterdooter]

I need to start a new campaign about this before iPhone 18 launches. I’ve been slacking on contacting Apple and the Accessibility team with this feedback, although I do think they monitor this thread and the PWM-sensitive communities.

Iphone 18, next samsung, and next pixel devices haven't been changed and it's already too late to fix them. Contacting Apple does nothing unless you can tell them exact specific models that work i.e. "The Motorola Stylus 2025 AMOLED screen PWM, amplitude, and sine wave dimming, at 60hz fixed refresh works great." Apple engineers would go buy it, test it, and have quantifiable data.

Apple does not care about anyone here until you stop buying Apple products and switch to another brand.

 

[Ninnie7]

I'm also still struggling with the whole pwm/dithering/eye strain problem, currently on my trusty iPhone 13 which thank god works for me. But the battery is down to 79 % and I don't dare to have it swapped because I heard that sometimes something goes wrong and they replace your whole phone. So I will try the 18 lineup, the 17s unfortunately gave me eye strain.

I recently tried the Macbook Neo, but sadly it gave me bad eye strain and headache so I had to return it and it took two days for my eyes to go back to normal. It doesn't have pwm, but I guess I'm sensitive to dithering as well.

But I'm posting here because I have a funny question for you. Recently I talked to a friend (who has blue eyes like me) that we sometimes have to sneeze when sunlight hits our eyes unexpectedly. She then told me that her ophthalmologist said that blue eyes are more light sensitive than other eye colors and that she should wear sunglasses as soon as she feels stressed by light. That now led me to wonder whether blue eyed people might be more prone to screen sensitivity as well? Because their eyes are more vulnerable to light according to this ophthalmologist? Does anybody here have blue eyes? Funny question, I know, sorry! Maybe there's nothing to it, I was just wondering.

 

[ghanwani]

I'm also still struggling with the whole pwm/dithering/eye strain problem, currently on my trusty iPhone 13 which thank god works for me. But the battery is down to 79 % and I don't dare to have it swapped because I heard that sometimes something goes wrong and they replace your whole phone. So I will try the 18 lineup, the 17s unfortunately gave me eye strain.

I recently tried the Macbook Neo, but sadly it gave me bad eye strain and headache so I had to return it and it took two days for my eyes to go back to normal. It doesn't have pwm, but I guess I'm sensitive to dithering as well.

But I'm posting here because I have a funny question for you. Recently I talked to a friend (who has blue eyes like me) that we sometimes have to sneeze when sunlight hits our eyes unexpectedly. She then told me that her ophthalmologist said that blue eyes are more light sensitive than other eye colors and that she should wear sunglasses as soon as she feels stressed by light. That now led me to wonder whether blue eyed people might be more prone to screen sensitivity as well? Because their eyes are more vulnerable to light according to this ophthalmologist? Does anybody here have blue eyes? Funny question, I know, sorry! Maybe there's nothing to it, I was just wondering.

I have brown eyes and am VERY sensitive to both PWM and dithering.

If you are OK using Windows, look for a laptop with an EyeSafe screen. The colors won't necessarily be as vivid as Apple's but at least there's zero eyestrain. I can use the machine for hours without any negative impact to vision. I simple cannot do that even with my iPhone SE 2022. If I use the phone for anything beyond a few minutes my eyes start feeling completely out of focus when I look in the distance. If I ignore that, I feel eye pain, and then headaches.

 

[jimmy_uk]

-Blue eyes ✋
-Astigmatism

 

[Ninnie7]

Thank you for the infos Ghanwani and Jimmy! Then I guess it has nothing to do with eye color...
I wouldn't like to go back to windows, but if it saves my eyes, I guess it might be worth a try... Ghanwani, which model is your laptop, if you don't mind to tell? Thank you!

P. S. Sorry everyone for the off topic with laptops!

 

[ghanwani]

Thank you for the infos Ghanwani and Jimmy! Then I guess it has nothing to do with eye color...
I wouldn't like to go back to windows, but if it saves my eyes, I guess it might be worth a try... Ghanwani, which model is your laptop, if you don't mind to tell? Thank you!

P. S. Sorry everyone for the off topic with laptops!

My current machine is Dynabook Portege X40L-M, specifically this model

https://content.us.dynabook.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/dba/EZBuy/PORTEGE_X40L-M_PZA31U-02101E.pdf

 

[techtechtech]

I am curious if any PWM sufferers like myself have also used Nikon Z8 or Z9 cameras with the OLED viewfinder, do these also cause issues like the OLED iPhone screens?

 

[scooterdooter]

I am curious if any PWM sufferers like myself have also used Nikon Z8 or Z9 cameras with the OLED viewfinder, do these also cause issues like the OLED iPhone screens?

Nick Sutrich

Nick Sutrich

Covering PWM analysis and flicker awareness on smartphones, tablets, and smart glasses. Also cover games and gaming accessories (Meta Quest, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch 2, etc). Send business inquiries to gwanatu.gg@gmail.com

www.youtube.com

1. PWM that is okay = Thin, light grey bars across all brightness that do not expand nor get darker (see video of this in action)
2. Dithering - requires a microscope

Check out the videos above especially for Moto or Oneplus 15/15r. You can use any camera with a manual shutter speed to see the "bars" on screens. You can test any LED light source this way including light bulbs. Dithering is another issue. If your eyes feel "hot" or they can't relax while looking at the screen, it is dithering causing that. You can have a screen with okay PWM or completely flicker free and still can't use it thanks to dithering.

Your Nikon LED view finder may be tricky to capture and almost impossible to test with a microscope for dithering.

I still recommend everyone here try out Moto Stylus 2025 (or whatever the global version is). It's almost been a decade for me to find any AMOLED screen that is 100% okay and that screen feels great.