It’s actually hilarious to read everyone defending this failbut wait, FaceID is sooo much more secure than TouchID, right, Apple?
Don't worry use a complex passcode. Then you can remove the now pointless notch and have a full scr....
Oh.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Face ID Appears to Fail at Telling Apart Brothers Who Aren't Twins in New Videos [Updated]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Don't worry use a complex passcode. Then you can remove the now pointless notch and have a full scr....
Oh.
It's being sold to the end user as "security" so I hope it's more than a convenience.
Apple should’ve considered this when developing FaveID. With it, you can literally look at two people who look similar and give it a go at unlocking an X. At least with TouchID, you can’t see strangers’ try and work out whether they’ll unlock your iPhone.
It shouldn't. After all, how many similar looking siblings work together at companies? And they didn't stop you from using Touch ID even though it can be hacked (admittedly, with great effort), right?
People freak out over new tech all the time. We saw it with Touch ID. When people realize that the chances of their doppelgänger hacking into their phone is almost zero, they'll calm down and accept the fact that facial recognition is about as secure as one could hope for in today's consumer tech.
Can you tell me the positives of a stranger being able to buy things with your money using FaceID?
I'm struggling here...
"The probability of a false match is different for twins and siblings that look like you as well as among children under the age of 13"
Apple has this official since Sept, its called faceID Security
https://images.apple.com/business/docs/FaceID_Security_Guide.pdf
Apple has this official since Sept, its called faceID Security
https://images.apple.com/business/docs/FaceID_Security_Guide.pdf
I’m not protecting National Security secrets on my phone and don’t have brother that looks similar in features to me.
This “revelation video” has no direct bearing on my life, so for me personally, it’s not even in the discussion.
This “revelation video” has no direct bearing on my life, so for me personally, it’s not even in the discussion.
So, exactly the same number of people who could potentially use the same 6 digit PIN as you. Ok, so then let's look at TouchID. 1:50000 chance. 140,000 people can access the phone with their fingerprints! If you use a 4 digit pin, 700,000 people might use the same PIN!
[doublepost=1509817753][/doublepost]
How is that illogical? You really think there aren't 7000 people that look like any one of us out there? In 7 billion? Across the entire planet? Mind you, hair, eye, and skin color do not count. This is only a depth map.
[doublepost=1509817889][/doublepost]
It's a convenience that enables security. Prior to TouchID, most users did not lock their phones or left the phone with 15 minutes or more between locking.
I am curious to see what happens if he simply re-record his face, then teach face ID whith only his face for sometimes, then, try again to fool it...
Last edited:
Once again they don't show how the setup the phone. They could be each scanning their faces once during the setup process since it requires 2 full facial scans.
He's not referring to two people having set up their faces, he's referring to the machine learning in FaceID that improves accuracy over time. These people are giving it virtually zero time to see if that makes any difference. Glasses have nothing to do with how this works, they just removed one potential point on their face around the frames that FaceID would have ignored, which was enough for a false positive.
Adaptive Recognition
Machine learning lets Face ID adapt to physical changes in your appearance over time - apple.com
Yep, I read this as well. Looks like Apple have their asses covered by saying the probability is "different". Unfortunately, they didn't provide guidance as to how different it is from the 1 in 1 million headline figure. With these recent revelations, it seems like FaceID isn't as secure as one may assume.
That notch does more than just authentication, the array in there can be used by third parties and Apple for kinect like functions. Not to mention, the front facing camera. Also, if you look at any "edge to edge" phone out there, they have top and bottom bezels which take up even more space...
Yeah. This also means it's adding the differences in your brothers face to its database every time he unlocks it for you. Fabulous.
Last edited:
All these millionaires and billionaires on MR who keep ALL their money in cash and accessible on their now insecure iPhone Xs. What will we do?/s
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/27/16373710/face-id-iphone-x-apple-facial-recognition-impostor
Third paragraph. It took me five seconds to find that article.
that also means you probably need to teach face ID for some times, instead of feeding it with someone else face from first try.
But they're not twins, did you even watch the video? They are brothers, 5 years apart. One has very little hair on his head, the other has a lot of hair. One has a large mole on his right cheek, the other doesn't. If you showed a profile pic of each brother to anyone with half a brain and then asked them to identify the brothers in real life they should never make a mistake based on these identifying features. This is an embarrassment for Face ID and Apple. You can bet that Touch ID wouldn't have failed here.Apple already stated that it won’t work as well for twins
so you’re saying it will learn to reject the brothers face after it has already accepted it and likely added it to its database of slight variables?
Everyone is missing the forrest for the trees. In the Reddit video the first brother (in green shirt) has a sizable mole on his right cheek. The other brother does NOT have a mole on his right cheek.
WTF?! If a mole isn't a facial feature that Apple is tracking, what the hell is the point of Face ID in the first place?
If these brothers were absolutely identical in every respect EXCEPT for that mole, the phone should NOT unlock for both of them, period. If that Reddit video isn't faked (switched iPhone X while out of view), then this is a major fail on Apple's part. No freaking mole recognition?!
Mark
WTF?! If a mole isn't a facial feature that Apple is tracking, what the hell is the point of Face ID in the first place?
If these brothers were absolutely identical in every respect EXCEPT for that mole, the phone should NOT unlock for both of them, period. If that Reddit video isn't faked (switched iPhone X while out of view), then this is a major fail on Apple's part. No freaking mole recognition?!
Mark
Yeah, good thing they chose faces then....things you were born with and can't change to match others.
If you stop and think about this. One could actually see quite the opposite could be the case.
Consider this:
So you register your exact face NOW, and it records an exact view/measurement of your face right now.
That COULD be THE most accurate version of you it can ever have.
If we feel it's accepting of changes over time, such as.
You wear sunglasses or don't
You grow your hair long or shave it.
You wear a scarf or don't
You apply makeup/face jewellery or don't
To allow for these changes, and accept the variations, it will need to slacken off from it's original clean single scan of your face, and need to accept more variations of your face due to the items I've listed or perhaps more.
So in effect the first clean scan could be THE most secure.