Facebook and Spotify CEOs Slam Apple's App Store

[Ethosik]

Cheating on online games isn’t the same thing as wanting an app on your phone.

No you can get banned if you hack it to home brew it and open it up. People were banned on the PS3 by allowing backwards compatibility which got removed in later models.

It’s like a jailbreak type of hack. I’m not talking about cheating in multiplayer.

 

[I7guy]

[…]. There is a lot of potential good here.

Lots of potential bad as well.

I don’t believe bubble wrapping is long term beneficial.

The market should determine that; not the gubment.

 

[dk001]

Lots of potential bad as well.

The market should determine that; not the gubment.

That is the problem - people tend to focus on the bad even if it is the minor side of the equation.

When the market entrenches, sometimes it takes that to get things moving.

 

[I7guy]

That is the problem - people tend to focus on the bad even if it is the minor side of the equation.

People also focus on the good even if it is the minor side of the equation.

When the market entrenches, sometimes it takes that to get things moving.

Yep and that’s why it’s a lose/lose.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

From the consumer's standpoint, what's the benefit in having multiple app stores, vs simply having all apps available in one central App Store? So far, the main intention seems to be to allow developers to skirt around the app store's 30% cut, and circumvent App Store vetting.

Are we implying that Steam might be able to sell software that otherwise would not be allowed in the iOS App Store, such as more adult-themed material?

I take it apps sold outside of the App Store would not need to support ATT or Sign in with Apple? This sounds like a net negative to me, if Apple loses the leverage needed to enforce certain pro-privacy measures on developers.

It seems like amidst all the discussion, not enough attention is being paid to just what the consumer stands to get out of this. So far, I seem to be registering more net negatives than positives. It's kinda telling that all these lawsuits are being levelled by larger companies. You don't see the average man on the street petitioning to be allowed to side load apps on his iPhone.

The consumer gets a situation where Apple isn't able to abuse it's market position to harm competitors who offer a superior service to their own. Like they did with Spotify.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Lots of potential bad as well.

Unproven bad at that. But we have a lot of provenly good things.

The market should determine that; not the gubment.

It is, we told the government they are being anti competitive and harming the consumers.

Now steam can be available on iOS if valve chose to.

Apple is just removing the 2 week limit on the free developer account so we can all install apps.

So your choice is safe

 

[I7guy]

Unproven bad at that. But we have a lot of provenly good things.

There are no proven good things on apples ecosystem wrt to sideloading.

It is, we told the government they are being anti competitive and harming the consumers.

We also said that innovations will suffer and there are many downsides.

Now steam can be available on iOS if valve chose to.

Or not. Dont know how apple will allow this.

Apple is just removing the 2 week limit on the free developer account so we can all install apps.

So your choice is safe

Nobody’s choice is safe.

 

[BvizioN]

I don’t know what I’m getting when I buy my iPhone. The “contract” is presented after purchase.

This is typical Karen type of argument. You know exactly what you are getting and you know you know it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

There are no proven good things on apples ecosystem wrt to sideloading.

Little snitch. Emulator to play old iOS games

We also said that innovations will suffer and there are many downsides.

The minority it seems

Or not. Dont know how apple will allow this.

Well they already have an app. What do you think Apple needs to do?

Just allow developers to upload iOS games and it’s done. Apple won’t need to do anything.

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apps.apple.com

Nobody’s choice is safe.

we will se. Considering the choice exists just limited.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

This is typical Karen type of argument. You know exactly what you are getting and you know you know it.

Knowing it doesn’t make it a contract.
Especially when it’s not provided before purchase and completing the sales contract.

Hidden terms are unfair contract term and illegall.

You don’t sign a contract containing this information but the act of buying a phone and transferring ownership.

 

[Ethosik]

Unproven bad at that. But we have a lot of provenly good things.

Unproven bad? Just look at desktop operating systems. You know Epic wants a store on iOS right? And you know how they are “competing” with Steam with their desktop store right? We WILL be forced to side load. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity rights.

 

[dk001]

Unproven bad? Just look at desktop operating systems. You know Epic wants a store on iOS right? And you know how they are “competing” with Steam with their desktop store right? We WILL be forced to side load. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity rights.

Why is that some seem totally convinced it will be far far worse than the Play Store (or Samsung Store or OnePlus Store or …) is today?

Just not seeing it.

 

[Ethosik]

Why is that some seem totally convinced it will be far far worse than the Play Store (or Samsung Store or OnePlus Store or …) is today?

Just not seeing it.

Because Apple is typically the leader. This will cause things to get bad on Android too. Epic also sued them since it was “too difficult” to side load.

 

[dk001]

Because Apple is typically the leader. This will cause things to get bad on Android too. Epic also sued them since it was “too difficult” to side load.

Not seeing it.
Been sideloading on Android for years and while I agree Google and OEM’s make it semi difficult (depends on the OEM), I fail to see how Epic can make things worse.
And I don’t see how whatever Apple’s solution is would be worse than Android unless it was deliberate.

 

[Ethosik]

Not seeing it.
Been sideloading on Android for years and while I agree Google and OEM’s make it semi difficult (depends on the OEM), I fail to see how Epic can make things worse.
And I don’t see how whatever Apple’s solution is would be worse than Android unless it was deliberate.

Look at what Epic is doing on PC. Even to the point where a game was removed from Steam when Epic paid for exclusivity. They will do the same on mobile phones.

 

[dk001]

Look at what Epic is doing on PC. Even to the point where a game was removed from Steam when Epic paid for exclusivity. They will do the same on mobile phones.

Okay. But that is an Epic specific move as there really isn't a "PC Store".
Do we really think they will play this on both the App Store and Play Store?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Unproven bad? Just look at desktop operating systems. You know Epic wants a store on iOS right? And you know how they are “competing” with Steam with their desktop store right? We WILL be forced to side load. Epic WILL purchase exclusivity rights.

Yes unproven bad.
I’m looking at Mac who have the appstore(it’s extremely bad and barely used) and I see steam is outcompeting it with superior service and well everything.

And then I look at windows. Steam have every game from every store.

I can see game’s released on windows that will never be released on Mac, and even Mac games that will never be available in the AppStore because the developers don’t want to or even can’t within apples restrictions.

Games are exclusive on Windows without being payed or coerced.

Do you complain the same that games aren’t available on Mac? Do you have the same problem?

What’s the difference of Epic paying a developer to only sell on their store and Microsoft, Sony or even Nintendo purchases exclusivity rights for their stores and not publishing on a Mac and it’s AppStore?

At least with epic store you can chose things on the same platform

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Look at what Epic is doing on PC. Even to the point where a game was removed from Steam when Epic paid for exclusivity. They will do the same on mobile phones.

What is the difference of epic paying a developer to publish on android only?
Or Sony paying someone to only release on PlayStation?

And epic paying someone to be exclusive on their store on iOS? Is it the fact you have ability to buy from them on the same device but don’t want to.

Compared to having to buy a different device?

Steam dominates on all platforms because they are superior. EA conceded and launched their games. Epic exclusives are always time limited before they return to steam.

I can find a handful of permanent exclusives and they are all seem to be epic owned games.

 

[toph2toast]

Good. So go buy those phones and enjoy.

I'd rather just to live in europe and by and iPhone there, since it looks like Apple is going to allow for other app stores over there soon

 

[2010mini]

I'd rather just to live in europe and by and iPhone there, since it looks like Apple is going to allow for other app stores over there soon

Keep holding on to hope my friend.

 

[I7guy]

Unproven bad at that. But we have a lot of provenly good things.

There are no proven good things that can be objectively measured.

It is, we told the government they are being anti competitive and harming the consumers.

The government only makes great laws. They have never made bad regulations.

Now steam can be available on iOS if valve chose to.

Great. The ecosystem takes a dive for steam.

Apple is just removing the 2 week limit on the free developer account so we can all install apps.

So your choice is safe

Round and round we go.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

There are no proven good things that can be objectively measured.

Well some are objectively measurable. Such as using illegal apps as a VPN in china. The ability to circumvent authoritarian governments.

The government only makes great laws. They have never made bad regulations.

Well the government have done both good and bad laws. Forbidding sawdust in food and banning lead in gas or making it illegal to use deceptive marketing etc.

Great. The ecosystem takes a dive for steam.

Well I would say steam is superior in every aspect as a game store.
Developers can allow custom content to be used, engaging communities where people can talk about the game or bring up issues.

customers can find specific genera’s or look for spicific game qualities, single player, multiplayer, local multiplayer, online or offline, pvp or even co-op.

Round and round we go.

Indeed we do

 

[I7guy]

Well some are objectively measurable. Such as using illegal apps as a VPN in china. The ability to circumvent authoritarian governments.

The ability to aid in sedition? Objectively it’s better when apple controls the app store.

Well the government have done both good and bad laws. Forbidding sawdust in food and banning lead in gas or making it illegal to use deceptive marketing etc.

Well I would say steam is superior in every aspect as a game store.
Developers can allow custom content to be used, engaging communities where people can talk about the game or bring up issues.

customers can find specific genera’s or look for spicific game qualities, single player, multiplayer, local multiplayer, online or offline, pvp or even co-op.
View attachment 2131258

Indeed we do

Indeed we do.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

The ability to aid in sedition? Objectively it’s better when apple controls the app store.

Well sure you think the negatives don’t outweigt the benefits.

Well it’s not sedition, if you can prevent yourself from being disappeared by the government for holding the wrong opinions for democracy or freedoms or being a journalist.

It’s not objectively better if Apple controls the AppStore as they have been forced many times to remove such apps that protect their privacy or given the access to information.

Russian and Chinese iPhone users are left in the cold

Indeed we do.

 

[I7guy]

Well sure you think the negatives don’t outweigt the benefits.

Well it’s not sedition, if you can prevent yourself from being disappeared by the government for holding the wrong opinions for democracy or freedoms or being a journalist.

It’s not objectively better if Apple controls the AppStore as they have been forced many times to remove such apps that protect their privacy or given the access to information.

Russian and Chinese iPhone users are left in the cold

Not really surprising, we’re now discussing which scenario is worse. Imo, apple having no control of the App Store is the worst of all scenarios.