Facebook and Spotify CEOs Slam Apple's App Store

[polaris20]

Doesn’t matter to private property. It’s not a rental service. And as I said before EU is forcing them to allow side loading next year with DMA

Oh yes please, more EU laws that make things annoying for the rest of the world.

If they can make sideloading secure, and not introduce security vulnerabilities whilst doing it, then great. But more often than not something turns up as a bug, and causes more problems.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

See, this is exactly what you (and other side loading supporters) don't seem to understand. Developers know exactly what they are doing and what kind of apps they are side-loading to their phones. The average Jo (doctors, builders, nurses, teachers, kids, elderly, pretty much 99.99% of customers) would not.

We do see this. The problem your side don’t seem to understand is it’s my private property. If I want to side load apps it’s my responsibility not apples.

Just as we do on Mac or windows. What an average joe can or cannot do is not your business.

And it’s extremely anti competitive. Hence they are identified as gate keepers.

Oh yes please, more EU laws that make things annoying for the rest of the world.

And what problems have EU done to you?
GDPR mandating websites inform you of the data they collect? Request your consent?
Such a tragedy

If they can make sideloading secure, and not introduce security vulnerabilities whilst doing it, then great. But more often than not something turns up as a bug, and causes more problems.

They can it’s already done.

All you need right now to side load is a fee developer account you just need to re very the app every week or so.

Apple would just need to remove this limitation

 

[BvizioN]

We do see this. The problem your side don’t seem to understand is it’s my private property. If I want to side load apps it’s my responsibility not apples.

Wrong- Operating system is not your property. When you purchase your phone you know exactly what you are getting. You don't like it-do not buy it.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Wrong- Operating system is not your property. When you purchase your phone you know exactly what you are getting. You don't like it-do not buy it.

Yes. Yes it is according to the law in Eau the IP rights is covers by:

Exhaustion of intellectual property rights​

I don’t know what I’m getting when I buy my iPhone. The “contract” is presented after purchase. The fact apple doesn’t present it to me before money change hands makes it null and void.

US law do not impact EU law. If apple doesn’t like they can stop selling it.

 

[polaris20]

And what problems have EU done to you?
GDPR mandating websites inform you of the data they collect? Request your consent?
Such a tragedy

Yeah, it's annoying as hell, poorly implemented, and an overall pain in the ass, just to inform people of what most already know. But yes, I'd love to be affected by more EU laws......here in the States.

 

[polaris20]

Wrong- Operating system is not your property. When you purchase your phone you know exactly what you are getting. You don't like it-do not buy it.

He's just going to respond with "I'm in EU, which is all that matters in the world". Paraphrasing, of course.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Yeah, it's annoying as hell, poorly implemented, and an overall pain in the ass, just to inform people of what most already know. But yes, I'd love to be affected by more EU laws......here in the States.

That was on companies to do, and unfortunately they abused it, and it’s being changed to prevent that .

And it’s not about informing users but giving them control over the data they collect. Just how apple now makes every app ask you for permission to track you between apps.

He's just going to respond with "I'm in EU, which is all that matters in the world". Paraphrasing, of course.

Nope, but EU have a lot of influence. Things being legal in the US doesn’t prevent it from being illegal somewhere else.

And we know apple will change it. It’s just a question if it will be an EU exclusive part or USA will be affected as Well.

We have stronger contract and consumer laws.
Digital market act and digital service act will change the landscape.

 

[dk001]

See, this is exactly what you (and other side loading supporters) don't seem to understand. Developers know exactly what they are doing and what kind of apps they are side-loading to their phones. The average Jo (doctors, builders, nurses, teachers, kids, elderly, pretty much 99.99% of customers) would not.

Just because you do not have a dev account does not mean you would not know what you are doing.
Conversely also.

 

[Ethosik]

This argument was already used in this thread but it doesn’t hold water. The difference is if I owned Walmart then I can put whatever items I want on my shelf. I own my phone but someone can tell me I’m not allowed to put something on the shelf.

You own a PS 5 or an Xbox. But you can get banned if you hack it.

 

[dk001]

You own a PS 5 or an Xbox. But you can get banned if you hack it.

Are you sure?
PS5 I don't know but I sideload on my XBox

 

[russell_314]

You own a PS 5 or an Xbox. But you can get banned if you hack it.

Cheating on online games isn’t the same thing as wanting an app on your phone.

 

[_Spinn_]

I’m good with Facebook not liking this.

 

[jpdunn13]

As I see it if we remove too many restrictions in the App Store we open ourselves up to infinitely more malware, spyware, viruses, trojans, and user accounts being hacked.

 

[dk001]

As I see it if we remove too many restrictions in the App Store we open ourselves up to infinitely more malware, spyware, viruses, trojans, and user accounts being hacked.

We keep hearing that same ol' refrain.
If this was the case Android would be a complete cesspit - it isn't.
You're also assuming that the solution Apple comes up with would be no better than cheesecloth.

People need to stop automatically diving to the worst case and assume it is the correct outcome.
For those claiming Apple is so great, why are you assuming their solution would be so piss-poor?

 

[rjp1]

Apps haven’t been removed. And those same apps work on the great equalizer, the web. I fail to see the problem.

And I would argue social media isn’t the digital town square, but more the digital town lynch mob. But that’s another discussion.

Parler was removed.

 

[Abazigal]

We keep hearing that same ol' refrain.
If this was the case Android would be a complete cesspit - it isn't.

I dunno. It seems like every week, a new article pops up on Ars Technica about the latest hack / malware found in the Google play store. On iOS, the worst we typically see subscription scams. Something that is readily tracked and rectified within the App Store itself.

It’s also undeniable that the iOS App Store brings in more money. Apart from iPhone users having more disposable income, I believe the other reason is that it’s simply harder for iOS users to pirate apps compared to sideloading APKs on android, meaning more people pay for iOS apps (resulting in more revenue for developers).

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that by and large, the iOS App Store does seem to be better well run compared to the Google play store overall. Perhaps android should be trying to be more like iOS, rather than the other way around.

 

[dk001]

I dunno. It seems like every week, a new article pops up on Ars Technica about the latest hack / malware found in the Google play store. On iOS, the worst we typically see subscription scams. Something that is readily tracked and rectified within the App Store itself.

It’s also undeniable that the iOS App Store brings in more money. Apart from iPhone users having more disposable income, I believe the other reason is that it’s simply harder for iOS users to pirate apps compared to sideloading APKs on android, meaning more people pay for iOS apps (resulting in more revenue for developers).

I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that by and large, the iOS App Store does seem to be better well run compared to the Google play store overall. Perhaps android should be trying to be more like iOS, rather than the other way around.

Don’t compare store to store. There are several Android stores.
What effect has allowing sideloading have on Android these days? If sideloading is allowed on iOS, how could to be worse than Android?
That seems to be the oft repeated assumption.

btw - ARS has turned into an opinion piece instead of solid tech news like it used to be.

 

[Abazigal]

Don’t compare store to store. There are several Android stores.
What effect has allowing sideloading have on Android these days? If sideloading is allowed on iOS, how could to be worse than Android?
That seems to be the oft repeated assumption.

btw - ARS has turned into an opinion piece instead of solid tech news like it used to be.

Here's the thing.

I view the google play store to be a far worse experience than the iOS App Store. So when you ask me "how much worse could it be than android", it implies that in the very least, the quality of the iOS App Store has already degraded to the point where it is no longer better than the play store. Which is not a win in my book.

I already stated one - piracy.

Monument Valley Suffers from Rampant Piracy on Android and iOS

www.dualshockers.com

For said game, only 5% of android installs were paid for.

Is there reason to believe that were users able to install apps from outside the iOS App Store with greater ease than before, that the incidence of software piracy will not increase?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Here's the thing.

I view the google play store to be a far worse experience than the iOS App Store. So when you ask me "how much worse could it be than android", it implies that in the very least, the quality of the iOS App Store has already degraded to the point where it is no longer better than the play store. Which is not a win in my book.

The thing is the AppStore can stay exactly the same and steam can compete for games if they allow games being sold in their app.
They already have an app, just need the ability to sell iOS apps also.

Or store x providing a superior experience.

The iOS AppStore is already a terrible experience to finding applications. And local competition is good for it.

I already stated one - piracy.

Monument Valley Suffers from Rampant Piracy on Android and iOS

www.dualshockers.com

For said game, only 5% of android installs were paid for.

Is there reason to believe that were users able to install apps from outside the iOS App Store with greater ease than before, that the incidence of software piracy will not increase?

Simple solution. DRM they have a neural engine.

Such as identifying if you have a an app installed from the AppStore not registered on you account= not running.

Running an app that doesn’t exist on the AppStore = runs

If they can do it for cp material they can do it for apps in their store.

 

[Abazigal]

The thing is the AppStore can stay exactly the same and steam can compete for games if they allow games being sold in their app.
They already have an app, just need the ability to sell iOS apps also.

From the consumer's standpoint, what's the benefit in having multiple app stores, vs simply having all apps available in one central App Store? So far, the main intention seems to be to allow developers to skirt around the app store's 30% cut, and circumvent App Store vetting.

Are we implying that Steam might be able to sell software that otherwise would not be allowed in the iOS App Store, such as more adult-themed material?

I take it apps sold outside of the App Store would not need to support ATT or Sign in with Apple? This sounds like a net negative to me, if Apple loses the leverage needed to enforce certain pro-privacy measures on developers.

It seems like amidst all the discussion, not enough attention is being paid to just what the consumer stands to get out of this. So far, I seem to be registering more net negatives than positives. It's kinda telling that all these lawsuits are being levelled by larger companies. You don't see the average man on the street petitioning to be allowed to side load apps on his iPhone.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

From the consumer's standpoint, what's the benefit in having multiple app stores, vs simply having all apps available in one central App Store? So far, the main intention seems to be to allow developers to skirt around the app store's 30% cut, and circumvent App Store vetting.

The benefits are that applications and games not allowed on the AppStore can be found.
Apps can still be on all the stores as long as they are allowed.

Just how windows store and GOG games exist on steam as well. Being exclusive tends to be expensive unless paid for it for minimizing the market size.

Are we implying that Steam might be able to sell software that otherwise would not be allowed in the iOS App Store, such as more adult-themed material?

Yes absolutely when it comes to both adult and political themes. Steam have much less restrictive and allows you to sell multiple distributions as one entity.

Example a game that that is available on iOS today and have a Mac version and a windows port could be purchased on steam.

If I purchased a cross platform game let’s say half life on my pc, if I ever got a Mac it would be available for me

You would se an icon if a game is compatible with Windows, Mac and Linux or not.

And considering Mac now runs on the same ARM chip their phones use it’s very convenient.

I take it apps sold outside of the App Store would not need to support ATT or Sign in with Apple? This sounds like a net negative to me, if Apple loses the leverage needed to enforce certain pro-privacy measures on developers.

Depends, these functions still offers value to developers and users.

Sign in with Apple is coming up on normal websites on my windows computer.

And privacy features can still be enforced as the APIs are just system calls. Applications still can’t do anything the OS don’t allow.

It’s not jailbreaking the device and removing all safety features that already exist.

We can install unsigned code with cydia impactor. But the application are still bound within the sandbox as everything else.

It seems like amidst all the discussion, not enough attention is being paid to just what the consumer stands to get out of this. So far, I seem to be registering more net negatives than positives. It's kinda telling that all these lawsuits are being levelled by larger companies. You don't see the average man on the street petitioning to be allowed to side load apps on his iPhone.

I personally see a lot of value a consumer can get.

Steam for example being a one stop shop for games are 1.000% more convenient as you can browse on your computer for interesting tiles, built in modding support for developers who wants to offer it to their customers

Discussions on developers page and community interaction with the developers or other users.

A lot of functionality both the AppStore and google play lacks here I took a small video as I assume you have never used steam.

Or even basic features like a wishlist, or filter for game categories, single player or multiplayer. Action or horror. Discounted or not etc etc. features that are absolutely missing on every phone and every store on these phones.

 

[polaris20]

Parler was removed.

And reinstated. And remember, freedom of speech doesn’t include inciting violence.

 

[2010mini]

There are other app stores available for android phones. On Samsung phones both the Samsung App store and Google play app store are available by default (and others can be installed). So there's that...

Good. So go buy those phones and enjoy.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Good. So go buy those phones and enjoy.

But steam isn’t available on ether. And it’s superior to both. And could be a game changer if allowed on

 

[dk001]

Here's the thing.

I view the google play store to be a far worse experience than the iOS App Store. So when you ask me "how much worse could it be than android", it implies that in the very least, the quality of the iOS App Store has already degraded to the point where it is no longer better than the play store. Which is not a win in my book.

I already stated one - piracy.

Monument Valley Suffers from Rampant Piracy on Android and iOS

www.dualshockers.com

For said game, only 5% of android installs were paid for.

Is there reason to believe that were users able to install apps from outside the iOS App Store with greater ease than before, that the incidence of software piracy will not increase?

I’m sure piracy would go up - then again I see “pirated” knockoffs in the App Store.
My point - we are assuming Apple’s solution is blanket sideloading. But will it be that or something else?
I would hope Apple comes up with an alternative solution.

As for pirating, I am not sure how big it really is - I don’t browse that world. At the same I am not condemning sideloading just because some folks pirate. There is a lot of potential good here. I don’t believe bubble wrapping is long term beneficial.