FaceID vs TouchID

marty1980

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 22, 2011
536
353
Rumors of the iPhone Pro removing TouchID and relying on FaceID instead have me concerned. It took me a while to trust TouchID to the minimum level I do now. And I have bigger doubts in regards to FaceID.

Most of the critics I pay attention to seem to be focused on how fast FaceID will be and whether it will have troubles if you get tan or wear a hat or whatever... These are fine concerns, but not what I am worried about.

Say I am having dinner at a restaurant and have my phone on the table and while I'm talking a slick person slides by and snatches my phone.

With TouchID that person could maybe take the device home and get around it, but not likely without having got my fingerprint from somewhere.

With FaceID, the crook and snatches the phone and point it towards my face as they walk away, thus unlocking the phone as they go.

This is just an example of my concerns. I don't mind having FaceID as an option, but I want to keep using TouchID until I see FaceID proves itself a worthy replacement. There seems too much potential with FaceID for unintentional unlocking.

I'm curious to hear from the community in this perspective. I may not buy a new iPhone without TouchID at this point. What about you?
 

yanki01

macrumors 68040
Feb 28, 2009
3,516
1,641
loooololollll. are you sure you're not talking about your "Jealous and psycho partners"? no one obviously has any clue on how it will work IF that's what they're going with. there also is the option to turn off touch ID.
 

marty1980

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 22, 2011
536
353
loooololollll. are you sure you're not talking about your "Jealous and psycho partners"? no one obviously has any clue on how it will work IF that's what they're going with. there also is the option to turn off touch ID.
My wife has full access to my phone. No worries from me. But you bring up another example where FaceID would be a risky replacement.
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
3,071
One month away, can't speculate on the caliber of FaceID too much. The executives are confident in it from rumors and sources, but that is their job because you have to believe in what you sell. If Touch ID is removed, then it creates a ton of room for FaceID to take over. If FaceID sucks, then you would return the iPhone or not buy it.
 

Lioness~

macrumors 65816
Apr 26, 2017
1,187
1,119
I think and hope they will keep TouchID together with FaceID and or EyeID.
I rather have EyeID before FaceID for that matter.
You look into the scanner rather then scanner look at you. Feels safer and closer.

Hardly think they'll remove TouchID though.

Soon we will now :D
 

dan-K

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2012
303
56
I have no idea if this is possible so apologies if I'm totally out of touch, but could TouchID be used in conjunction with the new camera? Could you hover your finger over the camera and it recognize your fingerprint? I know the new camera is supposedly powerful, but not sure if that's possible or not...
 

martin2345uk

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2013
873
585
Manchester, UK
I have no idea if this is possible so apologies if I'm totally out of touch, but could TouchID be used in conjunction with the new camera? Could you hover your finger over the camera and it recognize your fingerprint? I know the new camera is supposedly powerful, but not sure if that's possible or not...
...no.
 

nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
5,277
3,071
What ever Apple does and I am pretty sure it will be face ID for the 8, the choice has been made and it is in production.
This and they sure as hell are confident in it. There is no guarantee that Touch ID will be back in an iPhone 8S. I do know that Apple's warranty coverage is top notch. Even if I am a "guinea pig" for their first OLED model, I still feel confident in the product. I will maximize the iPhone 8 for as long as possible because I don't need the upcoming minimal changes Android will have. Big whoop, the Snapdragon 845 or whatever its called exists and can do like Gigabit LTE on steroids or something or offers a bunch of theoretical maximums. I don't need to have the latest and greatest in bleeding edge either after that.

Just give me a GS8 caliber phone with iOS and I will be very excited.
 
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akash.nu

macrumors G3
May 26, 2016
8,973
10,546
I'm just creeped out by the fact that my phone can be constantly reading my face.
Why's this a problem when the data is not being shared with anyone and is entirely processed within the device and stored within the secure enclave? Also, Apple never transfers bioinformatic identification data to their servers. So nobody is actually "watching" you, for you to get creeped out.
 

Jack Burton

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2015
656
841
If the iPhone 8 is missing Touch ID, I bet John Gruber will have an article pretending that he always thought Touch ID was old tech and he couldn't wait for it to be gone.
 
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joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
6,322
7,378
I have definite reservations about FaceID replacing TouchID, but a lot of concerns people are raising sound a lot like when TouchID first came out an people were like, "What if someone touches my phone against my finger against my will or while I'm sleeping, or what if my prints are lifted off a surface?" How common are these types of situations?
 
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nviz22

Cancelled
Jun 24, 2013
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I have definite reservations about FaceID replacing TouchID, but a lot of concerns people are raising sound a lot like when TouchID first came out an people were like, "What if someone touches my phone against my finger against my will or while I'm sleeping, or what if my prints are lifted off a surface?" How common are these types of situations?
People are thinking about the strangest scenarios. FaceID better work, that's all I am asking for. By work, I mean faster than the GS8, LG V30, LG G6, etc. Plus having a way to look at the device and simultaneously unlocking it while lying down will be a welcomed edition.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
6,322
7,378
The funny thing is, for all these fears about unlikely scenarios where biometric security can be bypassed, I'm fairly certain that the most common way that people gain access to locked phones is still simply watching when people tap their PIN, or simply guessing it because "1234" is still one of the most common passwords.
 

marty1980

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 22, 2011
536
353
Here's a very likely scenario...

I'm at home and my phone was placed on a counter and I am going about my business. Suddenly one of the nephews runs up with my phone, laughs as hey point it at me, and then a runs off with my unlocked phone. Or makes a purchase in an app I was letting them use. Or... or...

It doesn't really matter what scenario people come up with. Some people will like it; others won't. I think FaceId is more prone to unintended unlocks than TouchID. And yeah, even if the facial data is kept on the phone, it's still creepy. It doesn't have to actually be used maliciously for me to feel uncomfortable about it.

I am hesitant to buy the iPhone Pro without TouchID. Maybe next year or the year after, but not the first iteration if there's not the fallback to TouchID. I don't want to go back to passphrases.

Agree or disagree, I appreciate the perspectives.
 
Last edited:

LoveToMacRumors

macrumors 68020
Feb 15, 2015
2,409
2,007
Canada
Here's a very likely scenario...

I'm at home and my phone was placed on a counter and I am going about my business. Suddenly one of the nephews runs up with my phone, laughs as hey point it at me, and then a runs off with my unlocked phone. Or makes a purchase in an app I was letting them use. Or... or...

It doesn't really matter what scenario people come up with. Some people will like it; others won't. I think FaceId is more prone to unintended unlocks than TouchID. And yeah, even if the facial data is kept on the phone, it's still creepy. It doesn't have to actually be used maliciously for me to feel uncomfortable about it.

I am hesitant to buy the iPhone Pro without TouchID. Maybe next year or the year after, but not the first iteration if there's not the fallback to TouchID. I don't want to go back to passphrases.

Agree or disagree, I appreciate the perspectives.
I sincerely don't think Touch ID will be back after this year. It's like the headphone jack, they removed it, now they won't put it back even if in 2 years, they got the space they didn't have a year ago.
 

akash.nu

macrumors G3
May 26, 2016
8,973
10,546
Here's a very likely scenario...

I'm at home and my phone was placed on a counter and I am going about my business. Suddenly one of the nephews runs up with my phone, laughs as hey point it at me, and then a runs off with my unlocked phone. Or makes a purchase in an app I was letting them use. Or... or...
For Face ID to work properly the phone needs to be in close proximity. You can get hold of your nephews in such situation. Also, you can specifically restrict in app purchases activity when you give them the phone.

It doesn't really matter what scenario people come up with. Some people will like it; others won't. I think FaceId is more prone to unintended unlocks than TouchID. And yeah, even if the facial data is kept on the phone, it's still creepy. It doesn't have to actually be used maliciously for me to feel uncomfortable about it.
The Touch ID data at present resides on the device as well. Don't you feel creepy about it? Also, how do you think the data is stored? It's not like your normal JPEG image, not sure if you were aware of that.

I am hesitant to buy the iPhone Pro without TouchID. Maybe next year or the year after, but not the first iteration if there's not the fallback to TouchID. I don't want to go back to passphrases.

Agree or disagree, I appreciate the perspectives.
I think you're being too judgemental about the whole Face ID situation without even seeing how it's going to work. Knowing Apple's engineering, they must've thought about such basic issues during prototype phase anyway. Such technology must be under development for years.
 

santela

macrumors regular
May 15, 2017
161
233
Why's this a problem when the data is not being shared with anyone and is entirely processed within the device and stored within the secure enclave? Also, Apple never transfers bioinformatic identification data to their servers. So nobody is actually "watching" you, for you to get creeped out.
I'm creeped out by the idea of a machine constantly watching and reading me. Although I already allow this machine to basically know everything about me so I guess it doesn't matter.
 

joeblow7777

macrumors 603
Sep 7, 2010
6,322
7,378
Here's a very likely scenario...

I'm at home and my phone was placed on a counter and I am going about my business. Suddenly one of the nephews runs up with my phone, laughs as hey point it at me, and then a runs off with my unlocked phone. Or makes a purchase in an app I was letting them use. Or... or...

It doesn't really matter what scenario people come up with. Some people will like it; others won't. I think FaceId is more prone to unintended unlocks than TouchID. And yeah, even if the facial data is kept on the phone, it's still creepy. It doesn't have to actually be used maliciously for me to feel uncomfortable about it.

I am hesitant to buy the iPhone Pro without TouchID. Maybe next year or the year after, but not the first iteration if there's not the fallback to TouchID. I don't want to go back to passphrases.

Agree or disagree, I appreciate the perspectives.
This is almost exactly what people were saying about TouchID when it was first revealed. There were so many "I don't trust my partner/children not to use my finger when I'm asleep" and "I don't want my fingerprints stored". Within a year very view people seemed to care anymore. But the answer is the same now as it was then. If you're not comfortable with it, don't use it.
 

Ralfi

macrumors 68040
Dec 22, 2016
3,551
2,284
Australia
I'm creeped out by the idea of a machine constantly watching and reading me. Although I already allow this machine to basically know everything about me so I guess it doesn't matter.
Not sure about the "constantly watching and reading me" - tapping the screen or raise to wake should trigger the FaceID function, much like with TouchID, or else battery life would diminish.
 
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