Many would. I wouldn't because I don't use Lastpass.
Then buy an Android if a "real firewall" is so important to you. Meanwhile, people enjoy the simplicity of the Apple garden where all they need to worry about is 1 store to get apps.
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Then buy an Android if a "real firewall" is so important to you. Meanwhile, people enjoy the simplicity of the Apple garden where all they need to worry about is 1 store to get apps.
So where is the data that suggests that criticism was consistently wrong?
I think what @Abazigal was suggesting is there is a lot of sentiment buried in MR posts and this is a synopsis of much of the sentiment. There has been more than one “apple is doomed” post written over the years.
I had on more than one occasion contemplated tracking the threads (and their eventual outcomes) on a spreadsheet but ultimately never went ahead with it. But I can say that a lot of hot takes did end up on the wrong side of history.
I recently recounted about 8 of them just from the last few months alone, involving takes I felt had aged pretty poorly. But the general trend is - one bets against Apple to their own detriment.
Off the top of my head,
1) Apple should acquire Netflix.
2) Samsung releasing the galaxy fold. Over a thousand replies in one thread claiming Apple was no longer innovating. Today, the product still sees only minority market share.
3) The immense cynicism surrounding new Apple releases like Apple Watch, AirPods, the various apple services, even the Vision Pro.
4) iPhones were too expensive and would lose to cheaper android alternatives. Ditto for iPads.
5) Apple needed to make a round Apple Watch. Meanwhile, cheaper alternatives like Fitbit and Pebble floundered.
6) Smart speakers, spearheaded by Amazon, turned out to be a mirage and not a thread to Apple after all.
7) Slowing iPhone sales being an issue for Apple (I have debunked this numerous times)
8) Apple was at the mercy of companies like Facebook and google who could easily withhold their apps from the App Store. In reality, it's Apple who holds greater power in this relationship.
9) The general lack of understanding as to why Apple does stock buybacks and why it makes sense for them
10) How Apple's ecosystem is generally misunderstood.
11) Microsoft has not had the impact on personal computing with their surface line of products many had hoped. Products like the surface studio simply never took off. Ditto for the HoloLens as well.
12) Spotify and Netflix have not stopped Apple Music and TV+ from taking off, and they now form major lynchpins of the Apple ecosystem.
13) Google continues to shutter service after service. Most ironic of all, they discontinued Stadia before Apple would announce they were allowing game streaming services on iOS.
14) Meta's bet on the metaverse does not seem to be bearing fruit, and I suspect they will quickly pivot to have their VR headset more closely mimic the Vision Pro instead of continuing with their own virtual world.
15) The never-ending tales of Apple being crushed by the local competition in China have been met with Apple seeing existing users move deeper into the ecosystem as measured by App Store, iPad, and wearables momentum.
For years, Apple was positioned as one iPhone update away from implosion. Low market and sales share were paraded around as signs of an incompetent product strategy. Simply put, Apple was framed as being weak and vulnerable, dependent on revenue sources that could disappear overnight due to consumers fleeing to the competition.
Today, while the narrative has completely shifted, the notion that Apple is perennially one threat away from being doomed hasn't. The media is now infatuated with Apple’s power, its ironclad grip over the App Store, and the idea that Apple users are stuck or imprisoned in a massive walled garden where things like iMessage, Apple Watches, and AirPods force people to remain within Apple’s walls. Government regulators are viewed as the only entity capable of protecting Apple users from Apple.
If competitors actually believe this narrative, they are setting themselves for more failure. Thinking that Apple users are somehow being forced against their will to buy products like Apple Watches and AirPods is nothing more than looking for someone to blame for market failures when the problem is found internally with a bad vision, inadequate corporate culture, and lack of understanding as to what makes Apple unique.
The biggest competitor to Apple, is probably Apple itself.
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Spotify + Netflix are lapping Apple Music and TV+ in subscriber numbers. Apple TV+ in particular is extremely irrelevant.
Apple made a smart speaker themselves and it flopped.
Facebook have repeatedly violated their developer agreement and all of their apps are still on the app store.
Surface had no impact of personal computing but Apple copied their tablet + detachable keyboard setup on the iPad.
You've claimed that skepticism of the Vision Pros success is wrong but the device has literally only been available since last Friday, in one country.
Lots of this is just your opinion with little evidence to support it.
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Subscriber numbers are not the topic here. Moved goalposts noted.
Citation please.
Do they fix the violations? Facebook doesn’t sell digital goods unlike epic.
It’s an opinion. Ultimately the court of the public will decide, old chap.
Netflix sub numbers in the multiple hundreds of millions meanwhile Apple is thinking of bundling their service with Paramount.
Speaks volumes really. Not surprised you've had to obfuscate the issue.
Market share so low it's basically irrelevant. Not grown at all in four years either! All of Amazons share ceded to Google not Apple.
None of what you said directly refutes my arguments though.
Take the amazon echo for example. The parent company released a product at a loss, happened to sell a ton of them (meaning an even greater loss), which in turn led to prognostications of stationary smart speakers representing a new paradigm in technology (and we all know how poorly that claim has aged).
However well or poorly Apple's HomePod is doing is besides the point. The issue is that time and time again, we see a new tech product enter the market, and then everybody rushes to claim it somehow heralds the future of modern computing and that Apple by extension is doomed because it does not have a competing alternative. And then said product goes on to flop.
First it was netbooks, then it was round smartwatches, then folding phones, now AI (amongst other trends too numerous to recall).
In the last 13 years I have been following Apple News, I have bore witness to Apple slowly but methodically removing oxygen from every market that it plays in. At the same time, the tech landscape continues to be riddled with increasingly bad bets, indifference, and an overall lack of vision.
Apple is pulling away from the competition to a degree that I have never seen before. While Apple sails forward with a strengthening ecosystem made possible by a clear product vision and a functioning organizational structure that prioritises design and the user experience, the competition is (to me) seemingly rudderless and have been striking out with one bad product bet after another. And to think that they were expected to put Apple in its place at one point in time or another.
Does no one here see the fundamental problem? Apple is (and has been) disrupting the conventional tenets of business even more than they are any particular product category in consumer electronics. But rather than study it, understand it, describe it, and teach it, we are choosing to deny that it is even happening. Instead of trying to explain Apple's success, we are trying to explain it away.
And to what end? That by constantly being so negative about everything Apple, you might one day eventually be proven right by fluke, and that it will somehow magically erase the past decade of having been wrong?
And so I ask everyone here once again. To what end? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Subscriber numbers are not in the trajectory of the conversation. Again, moved goalposts noted.
The above is your citation for why YOU believe it was “a flop”. Now can you tell us apples targets and opinions of those sales?
iPhones are also a minority global player but only the most critical of apple would call it a flop.
As we all know your opinion (my opinion etc) of apples performance with respect to HomePod is only for informational and entertainment purposes only.
Can you point me to anywhere where people claimed that the Amazon Echo was the future of computing and that Apple is doomed because of it or that Apple is doomed because or round smartwatches?
I don't think this happened at all aside the odd individual here or there.
iPhones aren't 12% of the market.
As I said, you have your own criteria of what you believe is “a flop”, but don’t know apples criteria.
Pretty sure that's a statement about how rich Apple is and how much Netflix is in need of investment, and how much it could do.
I don't recall a vast vajority or even a stable minory here really wanting this. To the best of my memory, most people here are sceptical about the foldable market because physical laws are hardly bent, no pun intended.
Most products were received well and with little scepticism. The only scepticism from the public involved the Watch, and that I would agree that the public was overly pessimistic about.
They are getting more and more expensive and people's wallets are getting thinner and thinner these days, more than ever before.
The smartphone segment is largely saturated and according to studies, people have a smartphone/ugrade fatigué. I think that is the main drive behind this opinion, and the data is conclusive.
Apple is not doomed but they know this as well, which is why they expanded to services rather quickly, and more quickly than most customers wished they were.
I still do believe that they make the best hardware, but even the best doesn't equal good. Everyone in the smartphone market is stagnant but that's to be expected after some time.
I never shared that opinion and I think that opinion was not really represented here. I saw that opinion more vocal on the Android side of things. Iirc, Android manufacturers went with a rounded design to not make their smartwatches look like a copy of the Apple Watch, though honestly I think they were always a copy.
No one is a threat to Apple when Apple is that rich. Losing in the smart assistant market is also not a threat, as is in many other segments.
Apple has the privilege to move slowly and make mistakes.
Those are indeed not an issue for Apple, agreed.
This changed over the years. Apple was more tolerant to those two companies because the iPhone is about apps, and you basically tear the device apart if you remove the main players from their system.
There was even a time when Facebook had a close integration into iOS, like with sharing photos etc.
Tech enthusiasts are not necessarily (and rarely I believe) great investment advisors, but was that really such a big topic?
That requires an implication of what is right and what is wrong. That I think cannot be decided by one party, or two.
I don't like Windows, but I think as far as I am concerned, this product line is as close as you can bring a manufacturer to a product, and the product quality was overall very good. They also shared together with the Google Pixelbook the best keyboards of the time while Apple still held onto the Butterfly Keyboard, which was a massive failure even acknowledged by Apple.
Tbf I would have never expected for ATV+ shows to deliver like they did. They did surprise me there.
If some these shows fall into your area of what you're interested in tv shows, I would say that it's definitely worth the time and a timed subscription.
Everyone predicted that this would happen, because Google, as you said, is utterly disloyal towards even their own products.
That being said, a lot of Apple products that have been genuinely loved have been sacked or cannibalized.
I don't think that will ever take off tbh as their brand is so burnt that I think their hardware ambitions are beyond hope. Nobody trusts that company. Their privacy reputation is even below Amazon's.
That is due to the fact that Apple is 100% aligned with China's business requirements, and within the space that China allows them, they can do many things that they want. Also, their target demographic are wealthy citizens, so in that arena, they obviously compete and continue to compete. And with their Arm processors, they are leading the flock and can tank a lot of issues left and right.
Apple is a stable and potent security for most shareholders and I doubt that will change. AAPLs do well for long-term investors and the dynamics of the market also allow to do mid-term trading.
This is the benefit of having Tim Cook at the helm, he does his best to make (us) shareholders happy. Gotta give credit to that.
As you know, I have to strongly disagree. I met many people in tech, know hundreds of folks from Apple directly, I have not had a single person tell me that they want this walled garden. Especially among tech enthusiasts, they are closer to the topic and they want more freedom because they are also more attuned to tech and know how it works.
I know from older tech workers that they will largely stick with the App Store but they have no objections to sideloading as most of them are using Macs anyways and know it.
In the spirit of "vote with your money", it dies indeed matter and is the topic of a success story.
On March 12, 2021, Apple discontinued the HomePod, but kept the HomePod Mini. In a statement, Apple said "HomePod Mini has been a hit since its debut last fall, offering customers amazing sound, an intelligent assistant, and smart home control all for just $99. We are focusing our efforts on HomePod mini."
Everyone can read past the PR about the mini that they themselves were also not happy with how it was performing. It was catastrophically bad perfoming in the smart speaker market.
When it's about data privacy (something that Apple glorifies itself over with), they let big devs get away with. When it is not infringing on privacy but about money, Apple bans.
Let it be reminded that Apple only allowed us to download the data Apple holds over us when the EU mandated it.
If separating Apple employees turning in their discount from regular customers, then yes, we could look at numbers. But APple will never reveal those demographics.
the trajectory of the conversion was not about voting with your $$$. That’s why goalposts were moved.
So they had something better? Every year apple announces a new iPhone. Using your logic above, which is some announcement bybapple, does that make the old one a flop?
Yes apple imo is one the companies in the forefront of data privacy. And they clearly should glorify themselves over it. The last sentence is another throw the baby out with the bathwater comment.
Have at it with your opinion but ultimately we will know.
First off, thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to my comments in the manner that you did. I really appreciate it.
AirPods Now Shipping to Customers Around the World
Same thing with me. Got 1/30/17 as the delivery date as well. I am thinking about trying to get one in the Apple store. I see that it looks like they will have the "Pick up in store" option. I am wondering if that option will go live tomorrow, and if so, when it is likely to do that???
forums.macrumors.com
Here's one thread involving massive skepticism surround the AirPods at the time of launch.
Samsung Unveils New $1,980 Galaxy Fold Smartphone
At its Unpacked 2019 event that took place in San Francisco today, Samsung officially unveiled its foldable smartphone, the Galaxy Fold. According to Samsung, the Galaxy Fold is a powerful smartphone and a revolutionary tablet all in one, a device that "defies category." When folded up, the...
forums.macrumors.com
Here's the infamous thread on the galaxy fold which would go on to have its preorder cancelled due to a faulty display that was discovered by MKBHD. Admittedly less than the 1000 comments I could have sworn it received, but the gist is there.
I don't really remember what I typed months or even years ago (the news cycle just moves too fast these days), but I think many members here can attest that I have been speaking up in defence of Apple for as long as I can remember, and there is one guiding principle which I continue to hold close to my heart.
I begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries. Others tend to first cover an industry (like AI), then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.
If there is anyone here who cares more about making statements that are right over statements that are rooted in ideology, I recommend you trying this out. The best way of covering Apple is still to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.
But hey, what do I know? I am simply an elementary school teacher who happens to (still) be passionate about all things Apple and who happens to have some free time on hand.
That doesn't sound convincing to me or the other poster.
That is like saying that the Buttlerfly Keyboard was no flop because there was another keyboard after that one which made people happy again.
There is not a single soul in the industry defending even the mildest amount of success of the original HomePod. All industry and supply chain analysts, as well as the market, are unisono on this.
It was also at a time when Apple obscured different hardware categories in shareholder earnings reportings.
There is no shame in it. Apple planned it poorly and made a mistake. They failed on numerous other fronts but still continue to make their shareholders happy, which is their primary goal, and they're succesful at that.
It is not, it is just highlighting a fact. You say they are at the forefront of data privacy, but that requires us to assess how much others are contributing to that, with actual numbers of features and magnitude of them therein.
The only place where I would agree that they are at the forefront of privacy is how much highly they praise themselves, which is kind of a poor trait of any person.
We will never know because Apple never shared those numbers, and never will.
Admittedly, the look of them caused so many bad memes that everyone was not really enjoying their look, and overly dramatized it over itheir usefulness. I have my Pros and I could never ever go back to the classic ones.First off, thank you for taking the time and effort to respond to my comments in the manner that you did. I really appreciate it.
AirPods Now Shipping to Customers Around the World
Same thing with me. Got 1/30/17 as the delivery date as well. I am thinking about trying to get one in the Apple store. I see that it looks like they will have the "Pick up in store" option. I am wondering if that option will go live tomorrow, and if so, when it is likely to do that???
Here's one thread involving massive skepticism surround the AirPods at the time of launch.
I was not at all surprised at the Galaxy having such issues. This whole bending thing irks me out, brings up all the thoughts of what could go wrong. Evidently, many cancelled their orders because it was visualized rather quickly.Samsung Unveils New $1,980 Galaxy Fold Smartphone
At its Unpacked 2019 event that took place in San Francisco today, Samsung officially unveiled its foldable smartphone, the Galaxy Fold. According to Samsung, the Galaxy Fold is a powerful smartphone and a revolutionary tablet all in one, a device that "defies category." When folded up, the...
Here's the infamous thread on the galaxy fold which would go on to have its preorder cancelled due to a faulty display that was discovered by MKBHD. Admittedly less than the 1000 comments I could have sworn it received, but the gist is there.
I am interested in what Apple would come up with if they match the rumours' timeframes, but I am simply not in the market for foldables, I think. Unless they come up with a prototype of magnetically attaching two iPhones to each other or so.
It is true that they largely design around (or inside) their eco-system but obviously that eco-system can only exist like they designed it to in markets where its ramifications are allowed. In those markets, Apple is financially flourishing, and even in markets where they cannot uphold the promises they make.I don't really remember what I typed months or even years ago (the news cycle just moves too fast these days), but I think many members here can attest that I have been speaking up in defence of Apple for as long as I can remember, and there is one guiding principle which I continue to hold close to my heart.
I begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries. Others tend to first cover an industry (like AI), then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.
If there is anyone here who cares more about making statements that are right over statements that are rooted in ideology, I recommend you trying this out. The best way of covering Apple is still to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.
But hey, what do I know? I am simply an elementary school teacher who happens to (still) be passionate about all things Apple and who happens to have some free time on hand.
It is also equally the case that while you look at Apple from inside to outside, others don't see it that way, and don't have to, which is why different markets have different rules. This may be bad for Apple's pockets but generally is not a recipe for disaster because Apple is still in the driving seat and can decide how to implement adjustments.
A great company is not one which just adjusts or quits, but whose adjustments are received well by their customers. Whether you, me or us or them like it or not, all of this will be measured by EU citizens.
I myself, I have bigger use for PWAs than for sideloaded apps (though I would really like a native Chrome and Firefox for website testing on iOS/iPadOS altogether because it would save me from keeping the extra device just for that) so I will hold on from updating until PWAs are addressed in a meaningful way, and I don't do any gaming, torrenting or emulating - though I wish I could see what kind of apps would be available if the market is more wide open.
You and the other poster are free to move as many goalposts as desired. 👍
It’s more like saying the iPhone zzz was a flop because although there were record revenues, there were last record revenues than the prior year (I recall that has actually been said on MR)
You are certainly welcome to align your opinion with any source you want. It’s still your opinion it was “a flop”.
Happy shareholders, mean happy customers and happy customers mean buying customers.
Please feel free to provide a relevant comparison. I admit I can’t but steps that apple has taken over the years seem to indicate they are, imo.
The court of public opinion will be the judge.
Goalpost? You cannot make such a statement without backing it, unless you have insider info that you are willing to share. Otherwise, it has flopped as audited by the many industry participants that we have, and there was zero need to have even more voices confirm what is already known.
You can ask any Apple Retail or Online Store employee how much it was desired.
You cannot use a record statement because it was the first of its kind, so you can only compare it against the competition.
The goal was to enter the smart speaker market and accrue market share, and they failed in that.
If we're looking at facts, it's only you trying to say that it wasn't.
You are conflating two different entities. And buying customers are not the same as happy customers, or else there wouldn't be any critics here.
I don't have to. But simply saying that they are at the forefront without providing proof is just repeated propaganda.
Since the data will never be public, the public can't judge.
I’m going to posit you do not actually know apples goals or motivations. So back to your previous comment, if you are discussing subscribers, goal posts moved.
Kind of true I’ll give you. Except I do not believe apple customers are unhappy as they are buying the best of the worst. The only relevant metric is sales.
But saying their not is an opinion.
The opinions of the public will be known.
This does absolutely nothing for debate on the forum. Adds absolutely nothing.
I could reply to every post in every thread with something like this
Sorry. Is there some relevant comment on the forum topic? Or, are you going to do exactly what you are saying others do?
The poster offered nothing more than an opinion, which is the way it goes and got an opinion back in this thread about a deceitful app.
It matters zero if I provide data when the core issue is that you state things here and can't back it up, but present them as facts and yet continue to fail backing those points up.
At least have the decency to say that it's simply your opinion, then everything will be fine.
Also, Mark Gurman, who we all know is well connected within Apple, is considered their second voice. He and many others researched that sales were so bad that Apple had to cut orders back with the manufacturer. Usually this also involves paying a security fee which apparently Apple preferred over producing the amount of units they were looking at.
Many other security analysts with sources in the supply chain also confirmed this, among them Ming-Chi Kuo.
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To be fair, @Mrkevinfinnerty is kind of right. By dismissing an opinion as such, you're dismantling the very foundation on which lay the art of debate. If that's gone, then what's the point of... everything?
(Woah, I didn't mean to get so philosophical)
@mrkevinfinnery is also kind of wrong. One doesn’t get to make overarching opinions presented as fact without anything to back it up. Overarching comments are just the fodder to be dismissed.
At any rate this debate is already far enough off topic. As far as the HomePod goes, if mark gurman said it, there must be a shred of truth. But it’s always helpful not to assume anything, as when one assumes…especially when citing 5 year old articles.