Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

[*LTD*]

Can't we just get back into the good old days when Adobe only made software for Macs? And when Google and Apple got along? All this hatred sucks, I don't know who's responsible and who's right or wrong, but this isn't healthy. And it's very childish. And when things get this far, something stupid usually happens, and that's usually bad for us consumers. Companies should work together and not hate each other. This applies to both Apple and Adobe. And Google. I guess Microsoft is quickly becoming the least idiotic company at the moment. And this really is sad!

There were never any "good old days" with tech companies walking down flower-laden fields hand-in-hand. Alliances are strategic, separate enemies become common enemies, breakups occur, and the PR machine keeps spinning. Yesterday the enemy was IBM. Today it's someone else, depending which side of the fence you're on. it was always cutthroat.

It's just business. It's the way it's always been.

As for Microsoft, they're about as idiotic and bumbling anyone can get in the consumer sphere, especially when mentioned in the same breath as Apple. I guess because they're "nice" (for the moment) their products have magically become innovative and desirable? I'm trying really hard to love it, but a Zune is still a Zune. And a Turtle is still Pure crap.

 

[Haoshiro]

This is a good thing for iPhone OS devices.

This is good for consumers, and its good for iPhone OS devices.

I don't believe for one second that Adobe's Packager is going to produce quality binaries. Not in comparison to native apps, even if it compiles to a "native binary".

Adobe can still make this work I think, by having Flash CS5 export an Xcode Objective-C project, then let the developer compile from their (or even automate that). I don't think that is going to happen, and if it did I think people would see the result is garbage code.

It's like building a website with that SiteGrinder Photoshop plugin, it looks fine at face value, but look under the hood and its pure rubbish. It's the same as classic MS FrontPage outputting the biggest mess of HTML you've ever seen.

Regardless of who is affected (like Adobe), I think this is a great step in quality control. Yes, there are plenty of native apps that are crap, but 99% of the people that want/wanted to use the Flash Packager are wanting to do that because they don't know how to program a proper native app, they aren't coders/developers.

Do we as consumers actually want apps from those people? Or do we want them to hire proper, real, developers to do it for them?

 

[Corbin052198]

Couldn't resist... I love apple, but hate companies that limit what you're able to do.

You love apple, but hate companies that limit what you're able to do? Then that applies to Apple, therefore you hate Apple?

 

[fmaxwell]

Bravo. The old "well if you don't know, i'm not going to tell you" argument.

Why should we spend pages doing education of basic concepts related to application and OS development? For someone who's arguing with us about something he doesn't really understand?

Throw in a couple insults and an irrelevant analogy for good measure, that makes you come off as knowledgeable.

Except that I didn't resort to insults and the analogy was spot-on so that lay people could grasp the problem.

Sure, it is certainly desirable to know and program in the native code, but that doesn't mean that Apple has to make it a requirement.

Well, you're going to get mad with me for not spending hours explaining this to you, but "native code" is the A4 CPU assembly language and Apple has not required that at all. All they did was say that the code had to be produced by one of several efficient, well-known languages and not run through a cross-compiler.

 

[SubliminalMac]

I was wondering, will the iPad be the end of flash? Or will Flash but an end to the iPad and down the road the end for apple?

I mean it's foolish to think that adobe alone will hurt Apple's market/revenue, but as designers and advertisers move away form macs due to it's lack of support for Adobe people will migrate...

I know people will start saying "look at the iphone and ipod with no flash support", but down the road someone will have to give...

What do you think? who will eventually give in?

LOL sir I think you are being a bit FOORISH with your thoughts, there is no way that an advertiser cares what language they use, specially with that new ad sh*t apple just did. Ill be looking at more ads when they look that good.

I for one like the way Apple thinks, no matter what we say in public, and know a better way to do almost everything. That ingenious to think so far into it that you actually come out saving battery life while i multitask, and get my speed.....UM NO BRAINER, put your ******** aside, Apple is doing what they always have done, whats best and whats thought through the most.

 

[*LTD*]

We don't want ports on our Apple devices, thanks.

Native tools or GTFO.

 

[SubliminalMac]

LOL sir I think you are being a bit FOORISH with your thoughts, there is no way that an advertiser cares what language they use, specially with that new ad sh*t apple just did. Ill be looking at more ads when they look that good.

I for one like the way Apple thinks, no matter what we say in public, and know a better way to do almost everything. That ingenious to think so far into it that you actually come out saving battery life while i multitask, and get my speed.....UM NO BRAINER, put your ******** aside, Apple is doing what they always have done, whats best and whats thought through the most.

and to quote my own ****, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO AN APP STORE AND GAME CENTER AND MULTITASK BATTERY SAVIE SPEED DEMON SH*T FOR OS X!

 

[ten-oak-druid]

The most outspoken against Apple on this issue tend to be people who don't use Apple products anyway (and are hell bent on convincing you not to either). That is a generalization for sure. But I have to ask if this news really affects the mobile surfing experience of someone who calls others "apple fanboys"? Are they honestly even using an iphone or ipad? I'd recommend these people get a zune and a droid and embrace flash. Then forget apple exists and anything to do with it (including this message board).

You have a choice. If flash is really important to you then get a device that uses it. Go have fun.

 

[SubliminalMac]

We don't want ports on our Apple devices, thanks.

Native tools or go home.

Thats the good stuff, you can tell when someones not a poser apple switcher and when someone it...This guys not.... The foorish ladyman i quoted before, hes a PC user trying to bring his garbage to the Mac.... DENIED B*TCH

 

[alphaod]

Great. Now we are stuck our current version of Flash on OS X.

 

[*LTD*]

Great. Now we are stuck our current version of Flash on OS X.

As if Adobe ever seriously planned to fix it in some "future version"?!

They keep promising to fix Flash. They keep promising to fix the Creative Suite. They keep promising to do abc and xyz for the Mac community . . .

 

[Haoshiro]

... I'd recommend these people get a zune and a droid and embrace flash ...

I know your post wasn't aimed at me, but I'd like to point out that I have a Droid and it doesn't do Flash either.

 

[dm2]

What many buffoons who defend Apple cannot seem to understand (and don't know the first thing about programming, so their opinion shouldn't really count anyways), is that the effect of this is far beyond just flash. Phonegap, Unity, eg....are also all gone.


Adobe should "accidentally" release a jailbroken flash and pull ALL mac products off the shelf and restrict support.

Then laugh as Apple sales plummet.

Yeah, right and sure pay all money Apple lost plus all additional expences
So it's not clear who is buffoon here

 

[MacAgnostic]

This has everything to do with HTML5, directly or indirectly. Apple wants to keep Adobe technologies off their platform and I can understand why.

Sure, it appears that Jobs has some vendetta against Adobe tech., but this topic is about how Apps are to be implemented, not what the Safari browser can or cannot do.

Adobe is not the only company affected with thier recent attempt to construct an arguably compliant App, many other existing Apps and Apps under development are now non-compliant.

I don't see how cheerleading HTML5 and Jobs' hatred of a competitior offers anything relevent to this thread.

 

[*LTD*]

Sure, it appears that Jobs has some vendetta against Adobe tech.,

I think a lot of us do after all these years.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

I know your post wasn't aimed at me, but I'd like to point out that I have a Droid and it doesn't do Flash either.

I didn't realize that. I don't own a smart phone myself. My phone can send an email or text but I don't use the web on it.

I certainly hope that everyone complaining about Apple's decision is searching out message boards discussing the droid phones and complaining on those too. And I would hope that if they are including insults like "fanboy" in their posts here that they are doing the same on the other boards.

Are there a smart phones that use flash? Perhaps we should list them here so that everyone who really wants flash on their phone knows their options.

 

[SiPat]

Adobe acquired Macromedia and first thing it did was kill off Freehand, which in my view was not only more user-friendly but a far better application than Illustrator.

Photoshop is becoming too fat, and there are now far slimmer competitors around, at about 1/10th the price of Photoshop.

InDesign? I'm moving to QXP 8, which is much faster on my 8-core 2008 Mac Pro 2.8.

Adobe Premiere? That's what Final Cut Pro is for.

IF Adobe killed-off Creative Suite for Mac, Apple would take up the challenge of producing something similar and Adobe knows it. Steve Jobs isn’t stupid. iWork was developed to reduce reliance on MS Office, and just as OS X was ported to Intel processors years before Apple moved its entire line to Intel Inside, I wouldn’t be too surprised if Apple has comparable products up its sleeve. Just because other developers can’t or won’t compete with Adobe doesn’t mean Apple will sit on the sidelines and see its user base attacked by Adobe.

I think Core-Graphics and other Core-elements would be (and possibly will be) expanded to give all Mac OS X applications the ability to edit photos. Also, I think a lot of Mac users would simply look for alternatives than move to WinPC-based Adobe products.

In any case, Adobe would be committing suicide if it stopped developing for OS X, given that nearly 50% of Photoshop users are on Mac (that’s just the legal licences — I’m sure there must be loads of people out there who haven’t paid for Adobe products, both on Mac and WinPC).

 

[shervieux]

Shall we flash back to 2007?

http://gigaom.com/2007/04/15/another-fight-microsoft-vs-adobe/

My point about posting this is to point out that it is the world verses adobe

Another fight … Microsoft vs. Adobe
By Om Malik Apr. 15, 2007, 10:54pm PDT 6 Comments
0

It’s the season to rumble! Microsoft has just launched beta of a new media technology called Silverlight that essentially is going to compete with Adobe’s Flash technology. Adobe, meanwhile has introduced Adobe Media Player, a standalone media player that can be perceived as a competitor to Windows Media Player. Microsoft has signed up MLB as a partner for Silverlight. Adobe is working with eBay, the Wall Street Journal says.

The new media player is an effort by Adobe to capture some of the upside of the online video boom. It must “tweak their melons” that a company that used their Flash technology, aka YouTube got sold for $1.65 billion, and all they got was a proverbial T-Shirt!

“The media companies have a lot of questions about the other technology providers – are they becoming media companies or becoming providers… We are not a media company,” Craig Barberich, group product manager for Adobe Dynamic Media Organization tells NewTeeVee. That’s a dig at iTunes as well, because AMP does mimic many of the video features of Apple’s digital media platform. Nevertheless, this promises to be a long bloody fight, though Adobe has an advantage, thanks to near omnipresence of Flash on all platforms.

As an aside, this is a flashback moment from the ’90s, when competing technologies vied for consumer affection but ending up causing more confusion.

 

[str1f3]

I didn't realize that. I don't own a smart phone myself. My phone can send an email or text but I don't use the web on it.

I certainly hope that everyone complaining about Apple's decision is searching out message boards discussing the droid phones and complaining on those too. And I would hope that if they are including insults like "fanboy" in their posts here that they are doing the same on the other boards.

Are there a smart phones that use flash? Perhaps we should list them here so that everyone who really wants flash on their phone knows their options.

The truth is no OS maker wants Flash. They will only allow it for having it as a talking point against Apple. Go look a how Flash performs on the JooJoo on Engadget. Flipbooks are faster than that.

It is why MS has been sort of fidgeting when asked about Flash. Google hates Flash as well and only uses it on YouTube. Palm is broke and has no choice. RIM hates and doesn't support it but third party browsers will use it. As for Nokia, well they'll throw anything into their phone so they can say they have that feature.

 

[MacAgnostic]

I think a lot of us do after all these years.

Understood, Adobe is affected by this new policy and that is relevant.

All the noise about HTML5 and Flash in Safari is seriously Off-Topic and is confusing the topic of this thread.

 

[skellener]

We use Flash for animation production. Having a SWF file is great since it's vector, we can scale it up in After Effects without any loss of quality. This feature was added in CS3. A great feature for our use. However, try using a SWF file for anything else - forget it. You can't work with the files in any other app (except maybe Premiere - but we use FCP). After Effects still doesn't even support SWF sound. I doubt it ever will.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Ok a quick, "Why native development is better than frameworks/VMs/RTEs":

1: Resources/Performance: It should be clear to anyone with any development experience, that on a resource limited platform, you will save resources by programming natively. This is hugely significant when you want to deliver world class performance in a RAM/CPU constrained phone.

2: Lowest Common Denominator: Even when you are not resource constrained, using a cross platform framework will tend to push applications to using lowest common denominator feature sets. Applications will tend not to use leading edge features that exist only on your platform.

3: Poor incentive to innovate the platform: If your new features are likely to go unused until everyone in the lowest common denominator also gets them, you have little incentive to introduce new features.

It goes deeper than that, but that is as far as I should need to go for even reasonable functional layman.

Any developer of any experience should know this implicitly. Apple wanting to enforce native application development is a perfectly reasonable technical requirement for the benefit of the platform and for the users. The only losers are cross platform scripters.

Again common sense, and you're a proof that this is not about "Mac fanboys ( girl are not that stupid )" and "Adobe's reason".

 

[skellener]

Photoshop is becoming too fat....

Becoming? It's been pretty bloated since about v5/6.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

In any case, Adobe would be committing suicide if it stopped developing for OS X, given that nearly 50% of Photoshop users are on Mac

Cite your source.

 

[Sleazy E]

Everything adobe is bloated. Good riddance