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Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

Erwin-Br said:
Well, not everybody works at a company with an open culture. I wouldn't want to work at a company that'd fire me from voicing my opinions on a blog, that's for sure.
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You can voice an opinion without turning it into a hysterical rant that reflects poorly on your company.

David Kaneda had a great analysis on this today; two totally different approaches to the same issue: http://www.davidkaneda.com/post/508790392/watch-your-language
 
kdarling said:
Apple appears to be against the idea of any cross-platform tools that make it easier for developers to produce apps for both the iPhone and other devices. This will lead to developers targeting more friendly platforms.
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"This will lead to developers targeting more friendly platforms."

What developer?!?!??!

iPhone developers?

iPhone developers who ALL (or MOST) know Cocoa and X-Code and have gotten by very well with the tools Apple provides... And making programming millionaires and/or 'very well off' programmers out of more and more developer each and every year. iPhone developers responsible the 150k+ APPS currently available via the APP store? Are you really trying to suggest that once *those* iPhone developers learn they can't compile iPhone apps with some FLASH like development environment that doesn't even exist as a finished product yet, will start dropping the most successful mobile platform along with the most successful APP Store?

REALLY?!?! Is that what you're really trying to say?! :rolleyes:
 
yukio said:
Not sure I'd put it at that level, but I do think that Mac customers have our own water fountains, so to speak.

Can't remember which Adobe exec explained a few years back how Adobe couldn't be expected to put as much effort into a platform and customer base that was at best 1/10 that of Windows.
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Bullcrap.

John Nack has said more than once that their CS license revenue is about a 50%/50% split between OSX and Windows.

That 10% number probably applies to corporate Acrobat revenues but in no way reflects the CS products.
 
Just some comparison charts to show the playing field

stats_432x309.gif


clip_image001_0208.jpg


mobileshare.png
 
AidenShaw said:
If Adobe didn't like the blog post, they could have asked him to redact the whole thing. Adobe didn't, they asked for one sentence to be modified. One sentence only.
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Now go back and read the disclaimer he added to the top of his blog post.

[Adobe would like me to make it clear that the opinions below are not the official views of the company and are entirely my own.]
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I've been a graphic artist on macs for 20 years and this is really sad. Adobe kept Apple alive for years (pre ipod era).
 
I could honesty say, after being on Apple's side throughout this debate, I don't like this move. Now they are just making everything worse, and escalating this entire thing. This seems like a deliberate attack. I completely understand why and agree that Apple shouldn't let flash on the iPhone OS, but this is on a whole other level. Does the quote about it not being compatible with multitasking have merit? Maybe. But I still don't like this. It's gone too far. Does anyone remember how 10 years ago Apple practically needed Adobe to get out of a hole and now they're spitting right back in their face.
 
This is a Consumer Electronic device, not a desktop computer...

Not very professional of Mr. Brimelow, regardless of the difficult spot Adobe may find itself in.

The Flash development tools are very nice. Expensive as well, $700-$1600 for the tool suite. As an independent developer, if I had made an investment in those tools (in both my time and money), I would want to use them on as many platforms as possible.

Apple has a tough challenge in bringing multitasking to a mobile platform. As the OS 4 keynote pointed out, making multitasking work without sucking down battery and chewing up the processor is a huge challenge.

Native Objective C / C++ code making calls to built in Foundation / Cocoa Touch API's is going to have the smallest code footprint, and result the best overall end user performance. If Apple let the app store fill up with apps based on heavy weight cross-platform runtime environments, the end user would suffer. Performance of those apps was masked when they were the only thing running on the device -- but with OS 4.x, you can no longer assume that just one app is running.

Apple is doing the right thing here.

They're trying to avoid the scenario where you buy that $10 game, and it starts causing Pandora to stutter, and Skype to exit due to low memory... The same game written natively for the iPhone would have no impact on the other apps. As a consumer, you won't ~know~ if an app is written in one of these cross-platform runtime environments. And even if the app caused problems, most consumers would probably blame the phone before they blamed the game. (I can't even play super-color-tile match 3000 on this thing...)

Apple is protecting the consumer on their platform (iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad).

They've made it very reasonable to become a developer for the platform. It costs $99 for XCode, Interface Builder, Profilers, Debuggers, Simulator, Docs, Access to the App Store, and 2 support incidents a year. That's a lot cheaper than the lowest cost Flash Development environment.

Plus, you have access to all the tools, and simulator for free to learn the iPhone OS platform. (You just can't load your program onto the device.)

This isn't a desktop computer we're talking about. It's a consumer electronic device. That's a huge difference everyone seems to be ignoring.
 
Three words for Adobe:

Boo. Freakin. Hoo.

I've long hated Flash and have made no secret of my utter contempt and loathing for it and those who rely on it (and no, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I've hated Flash passionately long before the iPhone existed.) It's a second-rate development platform that tries to be too many things and doesn't really get any of them right. In addition, it doesn't play well in the browser (by that I mean, it does not behave like a native browser element even after all these years) and too many developers and managers in charge of websites have grown accustomed to this ridiculous notion that the only way to deliver video or interactive content is by using Flash. Something that wasn't true even before the advent of HTML 5. And now people want to use this pile of crap to create apps for the iPhone when far superior, less expensive tools exist for that purpose.

So, bottom line: @#$%& you, Flash. I hope you die in a puddle of your own filth. And if Apple is leading the way to your demise, I'll happily hop on their bandwagon and cheer them on.
 
inkswamp said:
Three words for Adobe:

Boo. Freakin. Hoo.

I've long hated Flash and have made no secret of my utter contempt and loathing for it and those who rely on it (and no, I'm not an Apple fanboy. I've hated Flash passionately long before the iPhone existed.) It's a second-rate development platform that tries to be too many things and doesn't really get any of them right. In addition, it doesn't play well in the browser (by that I mean, it does not behave like a native browser element even after all these years) and too many developers and managers in charge of websites have grown accustomed to this ridiculous notion that the only way to deliver video or interactive content is by using Flash. Something that wasn't true even without the advent of HTML 5.

So, bottom line: @#$%& you, Flash. I hope you die in a puddle of your own filth. And if Apple is leading the way to your demise, I'll happily hop on their bandwagon and cheer them on.
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Somebody needs an ice cream cone. :p
 
Sorry, but I've only glanced though this thread so hopefully this point hasn't been beaten to death already.

I think that most of the posters in here are missing the point of this move by Apple. It's not about technologies at all. Well, not only. It's also about markets and who controls them. What is the first thing Apple does at these Keynote/Press thingys? It rolls out the numbers of units sold. The size of the market basically. As of Thursday it was 85 million Iphone/Ipods sold. Ipads are not included in that number. So, that's your potential market. That's huge. Apple is the gatekeeper to that market and wants things to stay that way.

It's simple. Play by Apple's rules and have access to 85 million potential customers (and growing.) Don't and peddle your goods elsewhere.

What company on Earth can ignore a market that large? Your shareholders will roast you in the streets if you do.

As far as Apple is concerned (for good or bad) the desktop/laptop age is over. Mobile devices are the future. Those are the new platforms. And it doesn't want any baggage from the PC era (eg. FLASH) funneling into the new mobile age.

They are thinking paradigm shift / culture change and the rest of us are still reeling from the future shock of what they are attempting to do.

They are thinking about Tomorrow while the rest of us are still thinking about Today but different.

Dave
 
Augure said:
If you knew little about Marketing101 you would know that Apple products are on their Apogee. And do you know what follows apogee...?

Plus Apple made what's call an hypocrit and dick move. What if Adobe does a really dickish one twoand don't release CS updates on Mac anymore...?

People are stubborn to change to what ? Get you fact straight:
- HTML 5, while promising, has not even been made a ready standard by W3C
- Because it only works on Chrome and Safari, and maybe you don't know it, but it means only 8% of internet user
- 75% of games, 80% of videos, most ads and thousands of website are still in Flash
- With HTML 5 you can do half what you can do with Flash for now.
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I think html5 has not been officially adopted because Adobe keeps raising objections.
 
Just buy Adobe already

Adobe market cap: $18.59 Bil

Apple market cap: $219 Bil

After the laughter, 'nuff said. I mean really, how does Adobe NOT get it? Flash is the devil to Apple (and me as well). They don't get to play in this sandbox, deal with it.
 
Adobe is lazy...

I buy Apple stuff so it just works, I don't want resource hogging software on any of my stuff, macs, phones or soon to be ipads. Apple has this right.

Adobe has been lazy for a LONG time with many of their products Flash being one, and InDesign for mac being another I am versed in.

I had no intentions of buying an upgrade from my InDesign CS4 as I think Adobe rolls out bloated limited updates and charges a fortune for them. So a lack of sale isn't Apples fault - it is Adobe's.

This has been coming for a long time and Adobe in their arrogance has ignored the changes that been creeping up.

As far as developers jumping off the Apple ship - I don't see it. Too many people are using Ipod touches, Iphones and soon Ipads for them to jump ship simply because they want to use old tools. Flash is dying and good riddance.
 
I think Apple can rightly claim that their customers have voted with their wallets. We're happy without Flash.

Can't say I'm happy with any Adobe products and Flash is the worst of a very bad bunch. Adobe has been screwing Apple customers ever since it prioritised the Windows market. There's no love-loss here Mac-side.

I believe there are high-level Flash tools that non-developers can use to 'tell their story' and I'm sorry for those users most of all. Maybe someone can come up with a non-Adobe tool, but apparently nobody's bothered so far. More shame the rest of us.

Maybe Apple should buy up some competitors and make Mac-like replacements for InDesign and Photoshop.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

If adobe cleaned up there act for OS X they wouldn't be in this mess flash beta 10.1 rc1 is still terrible on firefox safari and chrome if hulu etc go html5 I'm done with flash Lifehacker even had an article about how having it installed makes your computer less secure.
 
Someone needs their binky...

"Now let me put aside my role as an official representative of Adobe for a moment as I would look to make it clear what is going through my mind at the moment. Go screw yourself Apple." - Lee Brimelow

I've lost a great deal of respect for my long time beloved Adobe and their great products when I read this and other related comments from Mr. Brimelow. His tantrum-like comments are an embarrassment to Adobe's stellar image and he should clearly be removed for knowingly using such poor judgement - repeatability.

Take heart Lee, Flash still works just fine on millions of computers (even Macs). Perhaps instead of an "their out to get us" attitude, focus should be on developing content that CAN work on iPad/Pod touch/Phone. Apple doesn't hate you Adobe, they just have a few gizmo's that don't run Flash. I would think a software monster like you could work around it rather than take a stubborn 'victim' position.

Two things: 1. Fire Lee, he makes you look bad
2. Develop a work around, Apple isn't going to budge

Would love to see a peaceful ending to this whole mess.
 
i doesn't matter if you're pro Flash or anti-Flash. this move by apple is completely unacceptable and sets a very bad president. also, the lip service explaining the reason for this move ("sophisticated multitasking") is about as nonsensical as apple stating the iPod touch is a gaming device, and therefore doesn't need a camera. an .IPA is an .IPA.

believe it or not, this hurts all developers. Apple's hard dash for total control since the recent past has been quite disheartening. it has absolutely destroyed any remaining advantages apple use to have by being vastly welcoming, and (along with their push for WebKit2) seriously questions their integrity for open standards.

additionally, it would have been of interest for macrumors to also mention that Flash CS5's iPhone Packager isn't the only tool affected by this. there are a handful of other, very popular 3rd party tools for iPhone authoring, including Unity3D (gaming engine) and MonoTouch (.NET and C# development on PC) rather than simply dramatizing an Apple vs. Adobe war. Perhaps even throw in a reminder of the high profile developers who left iPhone development in the past for a non-biased measure. Adobe certainly isn't the only one affected by this decision.

it no longer just works, you must not think differently, and welcome to 1984.
 
AidenShaw said:
If the turtlenecked overlord's anger has anything to with this, the Apple Board will be remiss if Jobs is not fired immediately.
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Myeah. The man is worth $25 billion of the company's market value. I don't think the board's going to be firing him any time soon.
 
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