Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues

[hzc71]

Sorry, Adobe won't pull their Mac products anytime soon.

Adobe should "accidentally" release a jailbroken flash and pull ALL mac products off the shelf and restrict support.

Well, it's not like they've been doing a good job at maintaining their Mac products anyway. It's probably the most buggy software currently available for the Mac and at the pace that Adobe has been responding to those customers who have paid thousands of dollars to use their software and have gotten a mediocre if any response, maybe they should just pull out from the Mac platform and call it a day.

But they won't, because at the end of the day, it's all about profit.

 

[ValSalva]

Apple's making a key transition here. They're among the first to start leaving behind the old "operating system on a computer" paradigm.

"OS X" will in time become the "iPhone OS" or the "iOS" - whatever they'll call it, and you'll see Apple develop the hell out of it. It'll get to a point where it will far outshine OS X in efficiency, scalability, and speed. "Notebooks" in time will look nothing like what we see now. Desktops in their current form will be dead. Retail outlets can hardly move them as it is.

We'll continue to see "Macs." But they'll be quite different. Apple isn't ignoring its Mac business. Apple is evolving it. I'm a bit surprised that Gruber isn't seeing the Big Picture here.

Risky. Ballsy. And incredibly inspiring. THIS is how the industry moves forward.

I respect your opinion. However I feel that Apple still has Google envy. It feels like Apple backed into this 'OS X transition to iPhone OS.' I don't think they envisaged the apps explosion and the app store when they released the iPhone in 2007.

It seems like the paradigm shift you and many others cite is a convenient excuse to justify their desire to conquer Google in the mobile space.

It is a very risky strategy.

 

[metsgiantsfan]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend

Apple vs. Google + Apple vs. Adobe = Google ♥ Adobe

 

[*LTD*]

While Apple may not be in danger of becoming Microsoft they are in danger of pulling a Microsoft. From John Gruber:



The result of Google envy for Microsoft was the debacle known as Vista. It sure seems like Apple now has Google envy and is in danger of ignoring one of it's core businesses: OS X, Mac.

The more one hears about the iPad and mobile focus of Apple the more one can see that the likely delays in Mac Pro and MBP refreshes are not about chipset shortages or marketing but more about diverting resources and taking their eye off the ball. I wouldn't be surprised to see OS X's market share start dropping.

Can I get a link to Gruber's comments? They're no showing up on Daring Fireball, or else they're going a bit further back.

The only place where that comment/phrase shows up on Google is here at MR. ??

EDIT:
Never mind, I found it.

Seems you have taken Gruber's remarks out of context in order to spin it into their deliberate alleged negligence of Macs, as if they no longer care about them . . .

Here are Gruber's comments in full:

A few months ago, I heard suggestions that Apple had tentative plans to release a developer beta of Mac OS X 10.7 at WWDC this June. That is no longer the case. Mac OS X 10.7 development continues, but with a reduced team and an unknown schedule. It’s my educated guess that there will be no 10.7 news at WWDC this year, and probably none until WWDC 2011.

Apple’s company-wide focus has since been focused intensely on one thing: iPhone OS 4.1 The number one priority at Apple is to grow mobile market share faster than Android. Anything that is not directly competitive with Android is on the back burner.

Several of the “tent-pole”2 features in iPhone OS 4 that Apple promoted at yesterday’s event are directly related to this.



Shipping the iPad, of course, was a major priority, but like any new project at Apple, it was shipped by a team working in secret. Most of the company found out the details of the iPad when the rest of us did, and that’s why the iPad won’t get an iPhone OS 4 update until version 4.1 later this year — the plans for 4.0 were set and long in development before the iPad was revealed. ↩

“Tent pole” is Apple company lingo for major features in a product that can be promoted to customers. I hear it frequently from friends at the company, but can’t recall it being used in a keynote address before. ↩

If Microsoft still had the set of balls it had in the 90s, Internet Explorer would have been updated years ago to block web ads by default, including those from Google. ↩
------------------------------

 

[tatonka]

As if Apple's "tightening grip" on the App Store will affect my health or something. LOL

Well it is not going to affect your health but it is going to affect you whether you like it or not.

Dev can only code so much and these frameworks and cross compiling allows for faster development especially when developing for different platforms. Forbidding these means that you will see certain titles not coming to the app store at all or they will be delayed or they will be more expensive because more devs are required to pull off the same job.

Somebody further up linked this Ars Technica article, which is a really good read on the topic.
The conclusion is that this whole thing is a strike against both Adobe but also Google/Android but in the end it is a strike against the developers. Those developers that make the iPhone/Touch such a great plattform with their apps and will as such hurt the plattform and in the end it will hurt the consumers.

T.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Apple's making a key transition here. They're among the first to start leaving behind the old "operating system on a computer" paradigm.

Good luck with content creation on a tablet device. Do you see it happening? Programmers tapping in thousands of lines of code on their mobile device? Artists editing their photo's and designing graphics with their fingers on a shiny tablet while sipping latte's at StarBucks? And having a doctors appointment in the afternoon because of the RSI they acquired?

If Apple indeed moves away from Mac OS, it will be to focus on consumer electronics. Content creators (developers and artists) will have to move to Windows in that case.

 

[ragmaen]

anyone here actually realizes that flash performance on mobile devices is actually a lot better than with html 5. here are some speedtests

http://phandroid.com/2010/04/01/speed-test-flash-vs-html5-on-the-nexus-one/

interesting...flash performs 20 frames per second while the same app reaches only 2fps on an iphone. of course flash is poorly implemented on the mac and thats something adobe and apple would have to to work on together. i see no reason how it would be in adobes interest to make flash more powerful on the pc just so, there must be a reason why its not possible that easily on the mac.

why does always something have to be killed instead of taking the strengths of different plattforms and make something awesome and powerful. who does actually care how an app is made, there would still be filtering through apple if an app doesn't perform well enough or doesn't meet their criteria in any other way. I think Html5 is great as well as Flash is great and they both take a lot of performance if used in the wrong way.

I don't see the point of Flash being a "scriptkiddy" language, with As3 it finally received a really powerful language to work with.

And there are many pages that make me believe in flash as a great tool for the web...just take http://ge.ecomagination.com/smartgrid/ for example. I love this site and don't see how it would possible to create the same experience in html5.

 

[AlwaysHopeful]

It just makes me feel disappointed

I have loved Apple products since the Apple ][ my school teacher brought in amazed me above a Commodore PET which was all we were used to at the time.

I had wanted an Apple ever since but couldn't really justify or afford one until 3 years ago.

Apple was a company I looked to as a showcase of technology and having the right attitude.

Whether Flash is dead or not in pure technology terms is of no real interest.

Steve Jobs gives the impression of being vindictive and that really hurts the brand and I feel that I should not support that attitude by buying their products.

I will still buy an iPad but my feelings will be tinged by the fact that Apple is beginning to feel a little "dirty" to me.

:-(

 

[ValSalva]

Good luck with content creation on a tablet device. Do you see it happening? Programmers tapping in thousands of lines of code on their mobile device? Artists editing their photo's and designing graphics with their fingers on a shiny tablet while sipping latte's at StarBucks? And having a doctors appointment in the afternoon because of the RSI they acquired?

If Apple indeed moves away from OS X, it will be to focus on consumer electronics. Content creators (developers and artists) will have to move to Windows in that case.

Wholeheartedly agree. Working with touch is like performing surgery wearing boxing gloves. Mouse and keyboard is like using fine utensils. It's no contest and that's not even taking into account the terrible ergonomics of touch.

 

[*LTD*]

I have loved Apple products since the Apple ][ my school teacher brought in amazed me above a Commodore PET which was all we were used to at the time.

I had wanted an Apple ever since but couldn't really justify or afford one until 3 years ago.

Apple was a company I looked to as a showcase of technology and having the right attitude.

Whether Flash is dead or not in pure technology terms is of no real interest.

Steve Jobs gives the impression of being vindictive and that really hurts the brand and I feel that I should not support that attitude by buying their products.

I will still buy an iPad but my feelings will be tinged by the fact that Apple is beginning to feel a little "dirty" to me.

:-(

So you'll feel "dirty" while using all their great products?

So iPads are immoral? Your friends will hate you because your iPhone represents a "vindictive" Steve Jobs??

Does the Magic Mouse represent Tolkien-like evil?

Get a grip, Frodo.

LOL

 

[ninerblitz]

I love it! Let the war begin!

Your proprietary platform is not as cool as my proprietary platform!

Adobe is whinning because Apple is the lead dog in mobile computing and Flash takes too resources to run. Before Adobe acquired the company that created Flash, Adobe was trying to kill flash, for a a more "open" solution. Adobe didn't complain when Youtube dumped flash for HTML 5. Apple is the only company out there that makes HW and SW. The have to be cautious with 3rd software, for it could degrade the performance of the HW. For, example when I open my 9 sports pages in tabs, my memory heap for flash is a Gig on my computer. It doesn't matter what browser I use:Firefox, Chrome or Safari. The more resources you use on the more power you use and it when it comes to batteries that is a problem.

Flash is old, so is Windows OS technology and hence works great on PCs. But Apple has been transitioning the last 10 years and Adobe hasn't kept up.

War typically is caused by passionate BS and posturing. Adobe needs to get with the times and start developing some HTML 5 solutions. Because Adobe can't stop the future of internet media.

This is a war decided by end-users, and they seem to be just fine without Flash on their mobile devices.

Lastly on a personal note, I hate calling Adobe support only to talk to someone from India who doesn't speak American. Maybe they should out-source their Adobe Flash to India where the can get it done right (and cheaper).

 

[vt220]

Whenever
- my windows boxes with firefox and chrome crash it's because of FLASH
-my Ubuntu Boxes with firefox crash or get unstable it's because of FLASH
- my safari in mac os craches and th fan starts to speed up it's because of FLASH

Thanks Apple for going against this crappy piece of plugin....
Push html5 and javascript!

 

[angrynstupid]

Apple's making a key transition here. They're among the first to start leaving behind the old "operating system on a computer" paradigm.

"OS X" will in time become the "iPhone OS" or the "iOS" - whatever they'll call it, and you'll see Apple develop the hell out of it. It'll get to a point where it will far outshine OS X in efficiency, scalability, and speed. "Notebooks" in time will look nothing like what we see now. Desktops in their current form will be dead. Retail outlets can hardly move them as it is.

We'll continue to see "Macs." But they'll be quite different. Apple isn't ignoring its Mac business. Apple is evolving it. I'm a bit surprised that Gruber isn't seeing the Big Picture here.

Risky. Ballsy. And incredibly inspiring. THIS is how the industry moves forward.

Agreed to a point. Desktops will still be needed; I need lots of ram, multiple drives and cards, and with multiple processors/cores, that can't be kept cool let alone fit in a small box.

Flash-lovers note that Apple is embracing the non-embedded plug-in design standard, which was a hack when it started and an on-going disaster that needs to be exterminated.

 

[hagjohn]

I'd like to decide what I put on my iPhone or iPad or any other Apple product I purchase. I don't need the company telling me how or what I can do with the product.

 

[barberio]

Note for people complaining that this excludes Unity3D... It doesn't appear to at all.

It excludes apps that are nothing more than bytecode interpretors, that have the real app in a bytecode resource file.

Rapid Development tools like Unity3D that just mesh with XCode, provide environment editors and libraries, are not covered. And they still appear to be accepting Unity3D apps!

 

[shervieux]

in order to be fair, shervieux, let's also include the Criticism of Apple Inc. wiki, ok?

ok, you're being fair and I will accept that. All companies has it's share of problems. My post was more to point out the vulnarabilities in flash that make it a target to hackers, works, trojans, etc. Stuff that puts your computer and personal files at risk. Thus until they (whoever the company is) comes out with true secure methods that can be proven, I will never fully accept cloud computing. internet and disemination of information is one thing, but not for storing my sensitive information.

As for the problems with Apple. My 2008 Macbook never had a problem (well except for my Windows Virtual Machine under parallels comsuming huge amounts of resources and hard disk space). I removed windows and parallels as I only had 2 windows applications left. My macbook went back to running like brand new and I got back 115 gb back on my hard drive (still trying to firgure that out as the VPC was only configured to have a 60gb drive). That must have meant parallels was taking up 55gb.

Also, so far as my experience goes; I never had a problem with Apple customer service (for the rare times I had a problem - usually answered with performing a simple step). they were always polite and helpful, unlike some companies customer service.

 

[RunOverProducti]

I'd like to decide what I put on my iPhone or iPad or any other Apple product I purchase. I don't need the company telling me how or what I can do with the product.

Ok, you put Flash on your iPhone, Ipad or iPod...now your device start to move slow, who you going to complain to? Apple or Adobe? Exactly!

HTML5 works flawlessly with no draw backs.

The situation is simple, Apple doesn't use Flash, so Adobe approaches Apple to work together on what they would like in there products! Apple has the upper hand, Adobe is missing out bing time, image BILLIONS of people could of been enjoying something made by Adobe on their mobile devices as we speak.

 

[Midlantica]

HTML 5 SVG better than Flash

Does anyone remember Adobe's Scalable Vector Graphic format? Or SVG? They took a shot at it, but Macromedia's Flash format was kicking their butts. I'm a bit fuzzy on this but wasn't SVG an open kinda HTML 5 format? Didn't Adobe say it was more HTML friendly? Even more 'open sourcey'? Well that's pretty much what HTML 5 is going to be. But Adobe saw Flash streaking out ahead of them and couldn't stand it and so bought Macromedia, essentially just to get Flash. And then things started to go wrong. Now a couple of years later, having spent an arm and a leg buying Macromedia everyone is dumping Flash for HTML 5/SVG format!?! Adobe mist be mad as hell. Adobe have been lazy, their great web graphics UI editor Fireworks for Mac is buggy as all hell, they haven't bothered to clean it up for years, Dreamweaver not that great either, Sprites anyone? Adobe seems to be comfortable with crashy half-finished apps. And as for Flash don't even get me started the mist obnoxious user experience ever usually for creating the most obnoxious wasteful animations. But for clever but buggy Video UIs, Flash is a blight on the web. I say good riddance, let's all go SVG format ;p

 

[FaustsHausUK]

I emailed Lee directly the last time he had one of his attention-grabbing rants, and I do believe his heart's in the right place. However, he doesn't seem to acknowledge that at the end of the day, Adobe just wants to sell software licenses for their $800 IDE.

A consistent web experience is great, but when other technologies could do that without requiring that developers stump up cash, your motives have every reason to be questioned.

Novell's response to the agreement wording is far more balanced, positive and indicative of a company who actually want to make things easier for developers:

http://www.mono-project.com/newstouch/archive/2010/Apr-09.html

I'm a developer, and while I do acknowledge the many great things I am able to do with Flash, many of those things are now available via jQuery and its plug-in structure, and will soon be available natively within rendering engines. In either case, neither needs me to pay almost a thousand bucks up front to get started.

 

[flottenheimer]

One thing's for sure:
If Adobe retaliates by pulling the Mac version of CS, I and a huge chunk of the creative Mac community will be royally scr**ed and as a result have to switch to PC. Yuk.

Please work things out Adobe & Apple. We depend on both of you.

 

[kresh]

If Apple's iDevices only had a larger footprint in the enterprise then Adobe could just release CS5 like they planned and instead of marketing to AppStore developers they could market it for enterprise in-house development, same for Mono Touch.

How would Apple know if an app built for custom in-house use made undocumented calls or used unapproved tools?

 

[AlwaysHopeful]

So you'll feel "dirty" while using all their great products?

So iPads are immoral? Your friends will hate you because your iPhone represents a "vindictive" Steve Jobs??

Does the Magic Mouse represent Tolkien-like evil?

Get a grip, Frodo.

LOL

No my Magic Mouse now doesn't work so well since I upgraded to Snow Leopard!

As I said I am not switching but I am disappointed - petty-ness (or percieved petty-ness) just harms the brand and turns me off a little.

 

[Pared]

Adobe should ... pull ALL mac products off the shelf and restrict support.

Then laugh as Apple sales plummet.

This would hurt Adobe just as equally.

One stupid decision after another? Let me guess... you don't run a business, right?

 

[rdlink]

Call The Cops!!

I feel that Apple is becoming into a monopoly like microsoft once was. They are milking the iPhone for everything and even making spinoffs (ipad)....Apple wasn't very popular until the ipod and the iphone came out...and suddenly now they are rejecting adobe?

Apple is holding their customers hostage to restrictions and high prices (damn MBPs still expensive!!)

...and where is my i3 13" MBP??....i too am a damn hostage of APPLE!!!!!!!

So let me get this straight. Steve Jobs has posted an armed guard at your front door, and that's preventing you from heading down to Best Buy and buying one of those plastic, POS laptops made by HP, Sony, Lenovo, Acer, etc.? I'm sure that, if you could slip by the guard who's holding you hostage you would find a 13" piece of plastic that meets your needs.

 

[Pared]

Apple vs. Google + Apple vs. Adobe = Google ♥ Adobe

While this seems like it would make sense to do, Apple's claims about Flash being "inefficient" aren't without merit. Google would have to think long and hard about taking on someone who refuses change and proprietary items. That's never been what Google has been about.