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Fallout From Apple's Exclusion of Flash-to-iPhone Export Continues
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Serves Them Right
Karmas a witch...
Adobe did not bring forth OS X compatible products for a long time and had non-Mac versions of it's software.
Now they monopolize the graphics software business.
Who needs who now beeeatches!?
I got screwed on LiveMotion
I hope Adobe dies a slow horrible death. I hate their crap, just like MS as far as I'm concerned.
I'll support small non-proprietary developers any day over them
Karmas a witch...
Adobe did not bring forth OS X compatible products for a long time and had non-Mac versions of it's software.
Now they monopolize the graphics software business.
Who needs who now beeeatches!?
I got screwed on LiveMotion
I hope Adobe dies a slow horrible death. I hate their crap, just like MS as far as I'm concerned.
I'll support small non-proprietary developers any day over them
You need to stop spreading this rubbish. Throwing money and developpers at a project can end up making it much worse. Some things take time, not money, not more hands.
Programming is one of those things. 10 programmers working on a project and needing 6 months to complete it doesn't mean 20 can do it in 3. Heck, with 20, you might end up with a 9 month cycle and buggier, inconsistent code.
That makes sense
But it SEEMS like a lot of Flash developers are just defensive about using Flash. This would let them stay in the Flash 'dev' space, scripting system and produce something useful. On the other hand, Flash is just another web plug-in. It's not all that important to the web. That's the big issue that Adobe and the Flash boys are skirting around. That their 'expertise' using this program isn't all that valuable.
But it SEEMS like a lot of Flash developers are just defensive about using Flash. This would let them stay in the Flash 'dev' space, scripting system and produce something useful. On the other hand, Flash is just another web plug-in. It's not all that important to the web. That's the big issue that Adobe and the Flash boys are skirting around. That their 'expertise' using this program isn't all that valuable.
1) Aperture is a great application for a prosumer app. It does everything I need it to do and it does it very well. PS is a "pro app" and costs a LOT more. So Apples and Oranges there.
2) Flash is going away. It is only a matter of time. It was a kludge program that just sort of....evolved. Like all IT evolutions of this sort, now that people have had more time to think about the problems, improvements are coming via a new standard.
Flash will not be RIP. It will be a long painful death...but the result will be the same.
G'day "mate"
Agree Flash is a blight, but SVG is not Adobe's and doesn't have a lot of overlap with HTML5 video capabilities. Adobe did have something to do with another page description language which probably influenced SVG: A little thing called Postscript, which some might describe as a wee bit successful. As far as I can tell SVG use is not that widespread (somebody will probably tell me I'm wrong) but for some things it's great.
Agree, however Steve Jobs' irritation with Adobe has been building for years. With all the cash they have on hand, I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't several big time projects they've been slowly working on, but Jobs just doesn't think they're either a) ready for prime time or b) the market for them isn't right. I don't agree with everything Jobs does, but in a battle between him and most other companies I'm going to bet on Jobs.
It's not that hard to figure out why they are doing this.
There trying to make sure Multitasking works seamlessly. With flash they cant guarantee that... Maybe is flash was worth a s*** then I would talk Adobe's side. But when its all buggy and a resource hog. HTML5, Objective C/C++ and Java is the only way to guarantee.
There trying to make sure Multitasking works seamlessly. With flash they cant guarantee that... Maybe is flash was worth a s*** then I would talk Adobe's side. But when its all buggy and a resource hog. HTML5, Objective C/C++ and Java is the only way to guarantee.
1. Exactly, so what does apple do about photoshop mate? Apeture? its the closest we have
2. I work for BBC, we have a huge amount of macs, If adobe drops its support and liscencing within 2 years, those macs will be PCs, and Apple looses a huge hardware purchaser. In the real world where people do actual work, software talks and not shiny computers.
3. Sorry mate, I work with websites on a daily basis, support and development, HTML5 is but a dream, the only one throwing a tandrum is apple, we make nearly all our revenue from ad sales, and frankly Apples cries about flash are irelevant, cause its all about page impressions, and frankly safari is so *****, they generate so little revenue, there are zero plans to move to HTML5, flash works, its makes $$$$, Apple is just having a tandrum and the only people who seem to care are fanatics. In business, $$$ talks and flash is here to stay, web is all about ads ads ads.
So explain why iWorks is so damn useless as business tool???? The bane of my life is entourage, I HATE IT, Total utter crap, but guess what, I have no choice but use it in the office, cause apples alternative is....????? do not tell me about awesome apple software mate. AT home my mac is brilliant love it. in the office my mac pro is a #*!&#! to use.
1. Apples and oranges? Not at all, If your using PS right now, and adobe pulls out of OS X, your not moving to Apeture are you? Franly if you need PS you will switch to the PC version for your livelyhood. Apple has nothing that compares to PS and would not get anything out for years.
2. Once ads move away from flash, it will be dead, but this will not happen fast, and not because of apple spitting thier dummy.
Really? When did that happen and why are you the only person in the world that Adobe told about it?
For that matter, if Adobe made Flash work on the iPhone, why is it that NO OTHER SMART PHONE IN THE WORLD has Flash?
The fact is that Flash isn't available on ANY smart phone. It's not Apple - it's the inherent fact that smart phones don't have the battery life or CPU power to handle Flash in its current form.
Even 10.1 is reportedly only marginally better - and it's not out yet. Early tests show that it's still limited and won't open many Flash sites (so what's the point?) and that it is still slow and choppy and has high battery consumption.
There's absolutely NOTHING out there that indicates that Flash has any hope of working well on mobile devices (other than uninformed shills like you who claim that it's all Apple's fault that Flash sucks).
Ignore LTD guy...
I think he is one of Cupertino bots Lee was talking about on his blog
Otherwise - you are spot on with your post!
Okay, thanks.
Here are but 3 from this thread which I claim to be of quality substance:
Post #371
Post #379
Post #411
[there are many others... but I forgot to flag them all, while weeding thru 30 pages]
If anyone (you?) can *successfully* find fault with those, i'd be more than surprised.
Also, the thread which evolved from the original AppleInsider article has some worthwhile exchanges.
Er... Throwing money in the wrong direction sure can slow down development, yes... Microsoft has shown that.
But Apple don't seem to do that do they...
See, throwing money in the *right* direction does help with development.
For instance,
* Having a compile farm so you don't have to wait overnight to see if a test build works right.
* Having paid graphic designers and artists to put together your UI resources.
* Being able to buy all the hardware test units you need. (or in Apple's case, just giving your developers your own kit.)
* Hiring people to do the 'crudwork' jobs that you can't automate. Such as triage of bug reports, checking the user documentation for typos.
* Having an office manager and cleaning staff who take care of the office, instead of taking turns to make the coffee and hoover.
and so on...
Note one important thing there, 'things that take time' can often be diminished or eliminated from the developer's workflow by appropriate delegation or access to special resources.
There's an awful lot of people who obviously have never been developers whining about how awful this is for developers...
I usually am not so blunt, but you're a friggin' idiot. Under your view of the world and product development the DOJ should be going after Cuisinart for not letting me put whatever programming I want on their toasters to run it. Fact is, Apple has created an ecosystem that includes hardware and software, and a very tight control over that. They do this, presumably, to assure a high-quality experience, which in turn will sell more of their product (in theory). Their strategy appears to be working. Nobody is forcing those people who are standing two deep at the demo tables at the Apple store to go in there and buy an iPad. The market will determine whether Apple succeeds or fails, and how popular the iPhone/Touch/iPad ecosystem and strategies continue to be. They are very clear in their software and hardware EULAs, and nobody can claim they were duped when they buy one. No laws are being violated. When someone forces you to buy something, and then doesn't tell you all of the requirements up front, or changes the rules in the middle of the game (can you say Universal Health Care? Nothing like the government "protecting" us all.) you are being wronged. Apple is not doing that. Walk away if you don't like their product or the policies and agreements around it. If enough people do so, their policies will eventually change, or they will fail and die. Great how free enterprise really works.
People like yourself who think that Steve Jobs is some kind of evil genius who has, locked in his safe in some dark, secure room, this master plan to take over your brain and free will just crack me up. You remember that he resisted the SDK/App Store business model at first, and only relented later? Because he realized that the MARKET would determine his company's fate.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, there is absolutely nothing wrong legally with them changing their EULA to say that you can only run their software on a Dell. Wouldn't be very smart on their part, however. They base their business model on a wider base of divergent brands of hardware running their overpriced software. Talk about oppressive pricing and policies. Is Win7 Pro really worth $100 more than Win7 Home Ultimate for the couple of features it includes (that come in the base version of OSX, by the way)?
Microsoft is a SOFTWARE COMPANY, that leverages other companies' hardware to make their money. Apple sells their entire ecosystem as a stable, controlled environment. As long as that strategy/system is accepted by the market, they have every right to run with it. When it stops making sense for the consumers of their products they will walk away, and Apple would have to adapt (if they're smart) or die (if they failed to adapt).
It is not your right as a consumer to make business decisions inside the boardroom of corporations. It is your right to vote with your pocketbook. Nothing more. If a company doesn't make the product that, in balance fits your personal needs or ideals, buy another product. There are plenty of competitors out there.
Yours was not a reasoned or intelligent reaction. It was the typical rant of a spoiled child who wants everything they want, with no compromise or consideration, and will not be denied, even if you trample the rights of others. Go buy another product, and stay the f&$* away from "protecting" my rights. Thank you.
Ignore LTD guy...
I think he is one of Cupertino bots Lee was talking about on his blog
Otherwise - you are spot on with your post!
You're actually going to bet against Apple?
Just imagine what would happen if Microsoft prohibited the use of any other developer tools than MS Visual Studio.net and any other languages than C# for the Windows platform?
Just imagine Windows 8 (or whatever they will call it) would prohibit C++, Delphi, Java, Flash,Assembler, RealBasic, the GCC suite, Ruby, Python, Flash, Objective-C (yes, probably no more iTunes for Windows!) and whatever you may think of.
And just because "they have every right to dictate", why not prohibit non IE based browsers, OpenGL and OpenCL (just because users should get the benefits of DirectX11...) and every multiplatform library (SDL, GTK, QT etc....). Why not prohibit MP3 player software when WMA sounds so much better...?
Christian
Are you sure you work for the BBC, or perhaps did you mean to say BBC Worldwide?
Anyhow... No, those macs are not going to magically all be dumped and replaced with PCs if Abode announce they are abandoning OS X development. That's because the computers are all assets, as is the *existing software on them*. Your management would have to be insane to get rid of them all because there won't be any new versions of the Flash IDE. They'll just keep the current version running.
And by the time they think about getting a new IDE, guess what... HTML 5 will have a full support ecosystem pushed and backed by Apple, Google, Microsoft and... everyone else but Adobe.
*No Company* likes being beholden to another, which is why HTML5 is taking off so quickly, because no one wants to be forced to keep on relying on Abode to keep Flash relevant and functional on their platforms.
And I bet you that your 'Flash works, why move' argument is going to get you a hard stare at a meeting asking why you see zero revenue from the iPad. I doubt you'd be as mocking and sarcastic in your reply to your boss about it then you have been here.
For the sake of your continued employability, I suggest getting a head start on learning HTML5 tech.
What development methodology have you worked with?? If any... cause from your reply I do not think you have gone through the complete development lifecycle end to end.
Couldn't disagree more. What's stopping them from moving to Microsoft *today*? I'll tell you, it's the Apple is a better platform for them. They like Apple better. They have no intentions of moving to Microsoft, unless Apple (not Adobe) goes away. If Adobe pulled products from the Apple platform, big deal. They'd continue using their *current* versions they are using and someone else would come in and fill the void.
There is not going to be this big migration to a sub-standard platform. Adobe isn't the only reason they are on Apple, and wouldn't be the big catalyst for everyone to jump ship into the shark infested waters of Microsoft.
Ignore LTD guy...
I think he is one of Cupertino bots Lee was talking about on his blog
Otherwise - you are spot on with your post!
+1. Trying to get an objective opinion out of LTD is like pulling teeth from a honey badger. He has quite literally turned himself into a willing religious zealot for a company.
Your rant just seems to ignore a few facts:
1. Apple accounts for 50% of Adobe revenue. Adobe software is only on 10% of Apple computers (and some of that is easily replaced - I use Photoshop Elements, but Pixelmator would do the job just as well). Adobe would be bankrupt in under a year if they stopped selling Mac software.
2. While Apple has no equivalent of Photoshop today, do you really believe that they couldn't create one? First, most of the functions are already in Core APIs and would require just a front end. Or, Apple could buy Pixelmator or another program and build on that. Or Apple could simply put a couple of programmers to work on improving GIMP. I know quite a few professional photographers who absolutely refuse to use Windows. If Apple were to come up with a comparable solution, many of them would stay with Macs. In fact, given how badly Adobe has done in the past 5 years on Mac software, one could argue that ANYONE with a willingness to switch to Windows should already have done so.
3. HTML 5 is not just 'a dream' as you put it. Did you see the Toy Story iAd demo? HTML 5 will do just about everything that Flash does. I've been asking all week for examples of things that Flash can do that html 5 can't do - and no one has provided any examples.
4. Your statement that 'flash works' is absolute proof that you don't know what you're talking about. Aside from its demand for 120% CPU time on a dual core system for a simple popup menu, there is NO Flash at all in the mobile space today. None. It just doesn't exist (OK, there's a beta and Adobe promises that it will be out REAL SOON NOW). So your statement that Flash works is just plain wrong. It doesn't even exist on mobile devices (not just iphone, but ANY mobile devices).
Your rant has almost no bearing on reality.
I'm sorry, but I didn't try to imply that none of your posts have merit. I only meant to point out that lots of people post short quips, including both of us.