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FBI Enlists Israeli Firm Cellebrite to Unlock Shooter's iPhone
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"carefully drilling down into it using a focused ion beam to expose the portion of the chip containing the target data... and then probing it, micron by micron, to extract the information"
No amount of security can prevent an attack of this nature, at the physical layer.
Now, encryption is still good, cause the info they extract at the physical layer will still be encrypted, so they'll still have to attack that with decryption attempts, which could take anywhere from 1 day to 3 trillion years depending on the level of encryption and other factors. The thing they hope to find on the physical layer is the raw encryption key itself. I can't imagine Apple leaving the key unprotected at all - I'd imagine it's at least wrapped with a hash of some sort.
No amount of security can prevent an attack of this nature, at the physical layer.
Now, encryption is still good, cause the info they extract at the physical layer will still be encrypted, so they'll still have to attack that with decryption attempts, which could take anywhere from 1 day to 3 trillion years depending on the level of encryption and other factors. The thing they hope to find on the physical layer is the raw encryption key itself. I can't imagine Apple leaving the key unprotected at all - I'd imagine it's at least wrapped with a hash of some sort.
Have you read what's involved in doing this? There is absolutely no way a consumer can worry about this kind of action. You literally need clean rooms and extremely sophisticated microscopes and probes to deal with components at the sub-millimeter level, and even with that it's incredibly easy to irreversibly damage the chip.
So what exactly would Tim be misleading about? This isn't cracking, this is direct hardware manipulation, something that is only not possible if you don't make electronics.
The decryption key is a combination of the device ID and the pin code. They only way to get the deviceId is to find it etched on the chip. If you want to do it on the phone itself then you are correct. However, then you are limited to the phone restricting the number of attempts.
My quote is not about the actual issue per se. It is about the multiple definitive statements in this thread claiming Apple either will mitigate the exploit or already has. Worse, some have compiled complete detailed narratives based on the assumption that a replay attack is in fact the method used. It very well could be... or not. All I'm saying is people should pump the brakes on the assumptions.
$15,000?? They don't even know if there's anything at all on the phone! Waste of tax dollars to gamble on that.
This is a riot. In an earlier thread on this topic I remember someone saying that normally this type of thing isn't publicized because it's done privately and quietly without fanfare. Tim Cook tried to make it a marketing show by blabbing it out to the world to make it look like he was some rouge digital freedom fighter and he was going to not allow the FBI access to the system.
So what happens? The FBI figures out a way via a third party to hack his "secure" phone thus making it look insecure.
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to run your mouth.
So what happens? The FBI figures out a way via a third party to hack his "secure" phone thus making it look insecure.
Sometimes it just doesn't pay to run your mouth.
That's probably about what the government spends on padded toilet seats for the Pentagon.
How do they know the wipe function is enabled? How do they know they didn't use a longer passcode than 4 digits? They might be able to brute force 4 or 6 digits but beyond that it starts to take very long time.
Yeah, because we wouldn't want to see what's inside a terrorist's cell phone, the owner of which killed many people.
So the terrorist is the "good guy", and the FBI are the Big Bad Guys.
You guys are really screwed up.
Doubt it. Tim is fully aware at how security flaws can be exploited. You think he's not aware of stuff like the jailbreak community.
Tim's entire argument boiled down to the fact that Apple shouldn't be forced to deliberately introduce vulnerabilities when it's already hard enough to fix/prevent existing ones from being exploited already.
Four vs six vs alphanumeric they can just look at the lock screen.
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There is packaging that will selfdestruct when breached. I believe it's used on some of the higher levels of military encrypted devices (FIPS level four I think). I wouldn't expect that kind of tech in a mobile phone though. Just pointing out that there are defenses against that type of attack.
Agreed, your entire post shows how you are conflating hacking/cracking with direct hardware manipulation. It really is a riot.
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6 digits will take an absurdly long time, exactly why Apple implemented it.
for the 96% of the worlds population who are NOT US citizens, we don't trust the US either.
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Except the phone with Apples software goes back to the FBI for them to brute force.
They then have the software, which they can then extract and they have a damn good template for weaponising Apples software to allow them access to any phone.
When I saw the DOJ say a foreign source was helping them I immediately suspected Cellebrite. Back in beginning of March, Wired did an article on them relative to the Apple case. Here's the article: http://www.wired.com/2016/03/feds-might-get-iphones-without-apples-help/ When I read that article I checked out their website. It was up at that point.
I'd rather the second. Even Apple knows that if they make a tool to break their own encryption, there is no way it stays completely in their control forever. Even if the US didn't force them to hand it over for the hundreds (if not thousands) of other phones that law enforcement agencies have waiting, then some other government will. This way, Apple can watch what the other company attempts, then bump up security for the next update.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
It's a little concerning that an organization as well-funded as the FBI has to resort to an off-the-shelf solution and apparently didn't know it was available. Shouldn't they have their own experts who know how to do these things? I guess they could be saving face by saying they just now found this outside company, but it makes them look incompetent.
$15,000 is just to talk and have some demo.
Trust me, it will cost us much much more.
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No surprise, do you expect them to build their own infrastructure for each and every case? If they need a microchip do you expect them to create an entire factory from scratch?
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...rite-to-unlock-shooters-iphone.1962988/page-4
see 3.30pm post say it perfectly
Yeah they have been around along time. All this assumes a number password was used. Smart people use the complex password option, or a flip phone.
the new stuff is very different than the old crap and yes I have. The consumer division that stores use to transfer your mom's contacts in the store is very different from the forensic division.
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As of last wednesday night when I looked their website was down, haven't checked recently as I'm at work. Thanks for the article!
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That's an absurd oversimplification of what is going to be done to this device.