FBI Looking Into 'Legal and Technical Options' for Entering Another Terrorist's iPhone

[Kaibelf]

US Spokesperson Lois Griffin:

But…..what about…the terrorists?...That's right, terrorists.....We have intelligence that suggests that... Hitler is plotting with... with the Legion of Doom... to assassinate Jesus... using the lake as a base. And we also have evidence that... Darth Vader tried to buy yellowcake uranium... from unwed teenage mothers!!!

 

[macduke]

I'm looking forward to when there are no older, vulnerable iPhones in circulation. Then Apple can't even be compelled to do anything, aside from possibly being forced to build future iPhone models that are vulnerable.

 

[Thunderhawks]

If they contact YAHOO , they get any info they want.

Obviously there will be a worldwide power play by all countries in the "interest of public safety"
to get "something" from smartphone and computer makers that enables them to look into
all electronic devices.

Since child porn isn't that great a reason any more they will use terrorist fear.

 

[JohnGrey]

How do you know that? Usually it's all quietly done in the background. I'm sure a lot of service providers were a little surprised at how public everything got last time.

Apple needs to develop a tool to do this, that law enforcement / government agencies can bring their suspect devices to a secure facility in Apple HQ to unlock the content of these phones.

They need to build it in such a way that it will only work in this fashion and cannot be removed from their possession.

Yes, I know a bunch of people will jump up and talk about civil liberties, etc....Apple can either build the means to comply on a case by case basis and not sacrifice the security for all, or eventually be forced to comply with the wishes of the US government.

Remember the PATRIOT act folks? It's still there. There's lots of precedence of other service providers complying. Apple's just putting on a show as a PR stunt - to make their offering seem the pinnacle of security.

Read the bold again and get it through your skull: it can't and won't stay private. The evidentiary laws regarding forensic tools and solutions in the United States require that it be peer reviewed, else a defendant could easily make a case that the tool itself manufactured fradulent inculpatory evidence. And once the workaround is known externally, it will get reproduced.

There's no middle ground on this. Either entities like Apple, which actually have power since it is clear that we simple peons are totally disenfranchised and disregarded, stand up to these jackbooted, McCarthyist fascists or they don't. If they do, we have a fighting chance at keep the civil liberties of which you speak so cynically. If not, well...the result is far more nightmarish that anything we have dealt with from any knife-wielding extremist.

 

[Westside guy]

Next time, try to ask first, then shoot later. I know it's hard for you to do, but you can at least try it.

Yes, while he was running around the Mall of America stabbing people, the police should've been trying to nicely ask him for his phone.

Do you even read the news?

 

[DrewDaHilp1]

The FBI? The same FBI that said no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges?

 

[DevNull0]

Hopefully Apple will stay strong and the public will backlash against what the FBI wants to do at every given opportunity. Troubling times.

I do agree with you and I hope Apple maintains their stance.

I just hope that it doesn't have the unintended side effect of giving Apple a rep as the choice of terrorists.

 

[fischersd]

Read the bold again and get it through your skull: it can't and won't stay private. The evidentiary laws regarding forensic tools and solutions in the United States require that it be peer reviewed, else a defendant could easily make a case that the tool itself manufactured fradulent inculpatory evidence. And once the workaround is known externally, it will get reproduced.

There's no middle ground on this. Either entities like Apple, which actually have power since it is clear that we simple peons are totally disenfranchised and disregarded, stand up to these jackbooted, McCarthyist fascists or they don't. If they do, we have a fighting chance at keep the civil liberties of which you speak so cynically. If not, well...the result is far more nightmarish that anything we have dealt with from any knife-wielding extremist.

Well, it's already been done by others and the "keys to the kingdom" simply need to be engineered that access can only be granted for each specific case. This has existed for several years. Apple's also complied with requests in the past.

 

[NT1440]

I don't know what the FBI is trying to pull here. They already lost the public opinion on this. How much clearer do they intend to be in admitting the goal is to surveil the country?

 

[JohnGrey]

Well, it's already been done by others and the "keys to the kingdom" simply need to be engineered that access can only be granted for each specific case. This has existed for several years. Apple's also complied with requests in the past.

They have complied in those instances where the solution use does not violate the security integrity of the platform. As for your 'keys to the kingdom' nonsense, there's no such thing as limited or selective security. Try poking a hole in a condom and see what that gets you. Any security which does not have single-user strong encryption as its base might as well not even exist.

 

[keysofanxiety]

I just hope that it doesn't have the unintended side effect of giving Apple a rep as the choice of terrorists.

Well if they get that reputation, only the ignoramuses would believe it. So I'd much rather that than the alternative.

 

[sehix]

"Adan was ... eventually shot and killed by police."

Kinda, sorta, not really. He was shot by an off-duty, part-time officer who used to be the chief of police of a small town in Minnesota, and now runs a firing range and firearms training facility called Tactical Advantage. He's considered an expert in firearms training and education and has helped teach classes on law enforcement skills at St. Cloud State University for nine years. Details.

 

[peterh988]

Well, it's already been done by others and the "keys to the kingdom" simply need to be engineered that access can only be granted for each specific case. This has existed for several years. Apple's also complied with requests in the past.

Yes, but mission creep will inevitably show up, and suddenly, requests will be made to get into the phone of a high school kid who sold a bit of weed to his friends.

Look at RIPA in the UK. And act promoted by the government as only affecting people involved in serious criminal activity. Used to catch dog fouling and checking if people live in the correct school catchment area. Once you make it possible, everyone will want access.

 

[sehix]

Next time, try to ask first, then shoot later. I know it's hard for you to do, but you can at least try it.

Adnan was in the middle of enthusiastically stabbing nine people at the time, and appears to have not been answering questions.

 

[fischersd]

They have complied in those instances where the solution use does not violate the security integrity of the platform. As for your 'keys to the kingdom' nonsense, there's no such thing as limited or selective security. Try poking a hole in a condom and see what that gets you. Any security which does not have single-user strong encryption as its base might as well not even exist.

Well, obviously, you've not worked in tech or you'd realize that there's a solution to just about every problem.
Apple will eventually engineer a solution that will give the authorities the access that they want, while still protecting the masses. It will be done very quietly, with no press coverage. The topic will simply go away.
[doublepost=1475855456][/doublepost]

Yes, but mission creep will inevitably show up, and suddenly, requests will be made to get into the phone of a high school kid who sold a bit of weed to his friends.

Look at RIPA in the UK. And act promoted by the government as only affecting people involved in serious criminal activity. Used to catch dog fouling and checking if people live in the correct school catchment area. Once you make it possible, everyone will want access.

If they get a subpoena from a court, then, yep. How is that any different than getting a wire tap?

They won't let the individual police departments have access anyways. Feds only.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I believe the FBI breathed a sigh of relief when they got their "out" on the last incident. I think they realize how likely it is precedent will be set contrary to their wishes if they push forward on this matter. To that end I expect they are being very cautious about how and where they bring the next fight.

 

[JohnGrey]

Well, obviously, you've not worked in tech or you'd realize that there's a solution to just about every problem.
Apple will eventually engineer a solution that will give the authorities the access that they want, while still protecting the masses. It will be done very quietly, with no press coverage. The topic will simply go away.

I'm a software engineer and have been since the mid-nineties. So, no, I've no tech experience whatsoever.

There is no solution to a security problem which is predicated on maintaining uncompromised security whilst permitting selective contravention outside the purview of the keyholder. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a liar or trying to sell a bill of goods.

 

[fischersd]

I believe the FBI breathed a sigh of relief when they got their "out" on the last incident. I think they realize how likely it is precedent will be set contrary to their wishes if they push forward on this matter. To that end I they are likely being very cautious about how and where they bring the next fight.

They don't want it publicized. There's a lot of people that are very uncomfortable with how public Apple has made this.

They'll want Apple to comply in the background. Not in a public forum.

 

[kemal]

How you defend defines what you defend.

 

[fischersd]

I'm a software engineer and have been since the mid-nineties. So, no, I've no tech experience whatsoever.

There is no solution to a security problem which is predicated on maintaining uncompromised security whilst permitting selective contravention outside the purview of the keyholder. Anyone that suggests otherwise is a liar or trying to sell you a bill of goods.

You simply haven't been exposed to this. Stating these things aren't possible because your experience isn't with this arena is pretty foolish.

 

[Porco]

In fairness I have heard new iPhones have lots of fireworks, lasers and evil confetti that terrorists are sending to each other via the messages app. No-one will be laughing when the balloons go up.

 

[JohnGrey]

You simply haven't been exposed to this. Stating these things aren't possible because your experience isn't with this arena is pretty foolish.

Then by all means, educate me. I would love to learn how to circumvent the problem of selective security.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I imagine at this point that any organized terrorist groups will be using some sort of encryption method or app to send messages anyway, so that providing a bypass to iPhone or Android OS isn't going to get you a lot of good information.

I guess someone might suggest that the answer to that is to build in key loggers deep into the iOS and Android, but only the good guys will have access to it.

 

[naeS1Sean]

I just watched Snowden. This isn't helping my paranoia.

 

[ProjectManager101]

The terrorism attacks in the U.S. are the least of the problems. An average of 11 people dies each day by texting and driving. The government need to have priorities, no scape goats.