FBI Looking Into 'Legal and Technical Options' for Entering Another Terrorist's iPhone

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

what if they had a samsung phone

If only it had the note's self destruct feature.....

Then they would have remote-detonated it. The new Note 7's seem to be coming with the handy feature.

It would have burst into flames before the FBI could get it.

New terrorist tool... charge up a Note 7 and put it in a pressure cooker.

You folks are hilarious. But, all these new batteries are very energy dense. Including iPhone 6S and iPhone 7 batteries.

http://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-6s-battery-explosion-fire/

Apple may not be having the same quality control problems as Samsung, but, with all of these batteries, there is a lot of chemical energy in your pocket.

 

[JohnGrey]

I guess someone might suggest that the answer to that is to build in key loggers deep into the iOS and Android, but only the good guys will have access to it.

That's the good citizen fallacy of security. The idea that 'only the good guys' will have access to or be able to exploit an intentional and covert contravention to security works only if one assumes that the 'good guys' will attract all of those individuals sufficiently capable of finding it and exploiting it. You have only to look at the plethora of foreign attacks to see that isn't the case.

It's part of the reason why, despite its claims to be most secure platform, I wouldn't ever own a BlackBerry. Even with its device encryption turned on, the company and its CEO have publicly stated that the key universal across all BlackBerry devices and that they will cooperate with authorities in decrypting devices. Of course, they make no claims as to what criteria will be used to do so or that they will report that cooperation.

 

[cubedweller]

Then by all means, educate me. I would love to learn how to circumvent the problem of selective security.

What he/she is referring to is magic. Because, you know, all of Apple's products are magical.

 

[usarioclave]

Somehow the FBI will pull in some kind of child porn angle so they can supersize their PR campaign.

"Apple protects child pornographer terrorists from law enforcement. News at 11."

 

[idunn]

One might point out—and I will—that this comes from another department of the same government which sees nothing wrong in entirely ignoring our 4th Amendment via the NSA.

 

[JohnGrey]

What he/she is referring to is magic. Because, you know, all of Apple's products are magical.

I don't disagree that they're rather fabulous, despite the lacklustre tone of some of the more recent offerings, but there's no such thing as magic when it comes to security. The absolute foundational argument for selective security in this instance is institutional altruism. Before arguing that the government should have the ability to do what he's arguing, he should be damned positive, in the sense of metaphysical certainty, that it will never, ever use that exploit in a manner that is illegal or immoral.

Anyone who claims that the United States government can presently, or for the foreseeable past, lay claim to such a degree of trust or assumption of benignity should explain themselves, very publicly, as to why.

 

[2457282]

How do you know that? Usually it's all quietly done in the background. I'm sure a lot of service providers were a little surprised at how public everything got last time.

Apple needs to develop a tool to do this, that law enforcement / government agencies can bring their suspect devices to a secure facility in Apple HQ to unlock the content of these phones.

They need to build it in such a way that it will only work in this fashion and cannot be removed from their possession.

Yes, I know a bunch of people will jump up and talk about civil liberties, etc....Apple can either build the means to comply on a case by case basis and not sacrifice the security for all, or eventually be forced to comply with the wishes of the US government.

Remember the PATRIOT act folks? It's still there. There's lots of precedence of other service providers complying. Apple's just putting on a show as a PR stunt - to make their offering seem the pinnacle of security.

How do I know what? that the FBI hasn't asked apple yet? Well there is the fact that the FBI says it hasn't. There is also the fact that Apple would immediately take to the media if it had. Aside from those two facts, I do not know.

As you said folks are already jumping on you about your disregard for civil liberties so I will not do so here. But from a technical perspective let me be clear. If someone hacks a phone they can get in and get whatever information they want, the company then figures out how to plug the weakness used by the hacker at which point the hackers look for another way in. This cat and mouse game keeps most people from access information on phones at random. But to put an official back door in that cannot be closed means that anyone can access any phone at anytime. As I stated, I stand with tim. The cat and mouse approach is clearly not as efficient, but it works and has since the beginning of the digital age. I prefer that to a wide open phone where any idiot in government can access my phone for no good reason.

 

[kerrikins]

Yes, but mission creep will inevitably show up, and suddenly, requests will be made to get into the phone of a high school kid who sold a bit of weed to his friends.

Look at RIPA in the UK. And act promoted by the government as only affecting people involved in serious criminal activity. Used to catch dog fouling and checking if people live in the correct school catchment area. Once you make it possible, everyone will want access.

not to mention the issue of other countries deciding they want Apple to do the same thing, for all sorts of reasons. Apple needs to stand firm on this instead of caving just because other companies have.

 

[krause734]

Let them look at our information if it prevents another 9/11. They will do it anyway. It's called the Patriot Act. 'Merica!

 

[ChazSch]

FBI: do this...go to dead terrorist body. Use his cold, dead fingers to UNLOCK THE Phone....

 

[Thunderhawks]

How do you know that? Usually it's all quietly done in the background. I'm sure a lot of service providers were a little surprised at how public everything got last time.

Apple needs to develop a tool to do this, that law enforcement / government agencies can bring their suspect devices to a secure facility in Apple HQ to unlock the content of these phones.

They need to build it in such a way that it will only work in this fashion and cannot be removed from their possession.

Yes, I know a bunch of people will jump up and talk about civil liberties, etc....Apple can either build the means to comply on a case by case basis and not sacrifice the security for all, or eventually be forced to comply with the wishes of the US government.

Remember the PATRIOT act folks? It's still there. There's lots of precedence of other service providers complying. Apple's just putting on a show as a PR stunt - to make their offering seem the pinnacle of security.

A little extreme to call it a PR stunt.

But, if they want to cement their claim of being all about privacy, they should build in a few more features.
In the end, if the info is in there, it can be gotten out. May take time and elbow grease, but it was conceived by humans.

We always get these reactions when a small percentage of criminals makes everybody's life complicated.

 

[nozebleed]

"culprit"?? surely you meant islamic terrorist

 

[iamgalt]

Yes, while he was running around the Mall of America stabbing people, the police should've been trying to nicely ask him for his phone.

Adnan was in the middle of enthusiastically stabbing nine people at the time, and appears to have not been answering questions.

Both of you realize that it is possible to shoot someone without it being fatal, right? A shot to the kneecap will definitely immobilize the guy and stop him from stabbing people, while keeping him alive to question. Heck, a bean bag to the head will do the same.

 

[pat500000]

damn yahoo..damn fbi

 

[morcutt11]

And yet we have 10x more murders in Chicago on a weekly basis and the FBI or any law enforcement for that matter doesn't give a ****.

You see, they are the Federal Bureau of INVESTIGATION. You're thinking of cops or politicians or something. These guys just investigate - you know, like they did with Hillary....

 

[apolloa]

Sits back, grabs the popcorn, laughs at the silly comments on this story.

 

[soupcan]

Yes, while he was running around the Mall of America stabbing people, the police should've been trying to nicely ask him for his phone.

Do you even read the news?

It's called blow-his-kneecaps-off-then-arrest-and-interogate-him, not blow-his-head-off-and-be-left-with-a-bazillion-questions. Also a concept US police finds hard to understand.

 

[AdonisSMU]

what if they had a samsung phone

It'd blow up in their faces.
[doublepost=1475862055][/doublepost]

Well, obviously, you've not worked in tech or you'd realize that there's a solution to just about every problem.
Apple will eventually engineer a solution that will give the authorities the access that they want, while still protecting the masses. It will be done very quietly, with no press coverage. The topic will simply go away.
[doublepost=1475855456][/doublepost]
If they get a subpoena from a court, then, yep. How is that any different than getting a wire tap?

They won't let the individual police departments have access anyways. Feds only.

Obviously you haven't either otherwise you'd realize the limits of tech. Part of knowing and understanding tech is also understanding it's limitations.

 

[Porco]

"FBI Looking Into 'Legal and Technical Options' for Entering Another Terrorist's iPhone"

This headline made me imagine a yet-to-exist Rick Moranis movie called Honey, I shrunk the FBI

 

[chriscrowlee]

what if they had a samsung phone

They've already bought off Samsung I'm sure.

 

[CFreymarc]

Possibly the best burn I've heard this month.

That said, I agree with you in a figurative sense. One of the things that Apple should employ to counter FBI's inevitable jackassery regarding digital privacy and security is to include a burn PIN and external dump prevention whilst locke. If you enter it instead of your unlock pin, or someone attempts to forcibly dump the data partition whilst it's locked, it immediately bleachbits the volume.

There are secure systems like that already. Some systems have a "panic password" that when typed in, does a notification that the account was accessed under duress. Another one is the "Samson password" that when typed in, will delete and wipe any data classified or sensitive. The patents are out there to look up.

 

[32828870]

This will never end. I'm just thankful it's uniting major companies as they take a stand, planting their feet like a tree and saying, "No, you move."*

*kudos to anyone who gets that reference

 

[JohnGrey]

There are secure systems like that already. Some systems have a "panic password" that when typed in, does a notification that the account was accessed under duress. Another one is the "Samson password" that when typed in, will delete and wipe any data classified or sensitive. The patents are out there to look up.

Oh, I know they exist, I'm just saying that Apple should employ them. If that happened, it would require those that wish to compromise security to do so publicly, as they were forced to do in the San Bernadino case. These are people that thrive in secrecy; it's when they're forced to operate in the light of day that they take their ball and go home.

 

[blacktape242]

Didn't someone spend a 100 bucks and unlock and iPhone? and the govt spend how much to do it?

 

[Winni]

America, is destroying it's democracy.

That ship has long sailed. The USA are a plutocracy, and have been for quite a while.