FBI Unable to Retrieve Encrypted Data From 6,900 Devices Over the Last 11 Months

[Duane Martin]

To me the only issue is that any back door or weakening of security would be in the hands of criminals within a very short time of it being made available to any government agency and that is something to be genuinely worried about. Though I do not have any immediate concern regarding the government spying on me I have 0 confidence in the ability of law enforcement to keep something like this secret and out of the hands of people they should be protecting us from.

That’s why the solution is not the weakening of security nor the creation of a back door.

 

[Tech198]

I'll take the bait. The passcode is stored in your brain along with a whole lot of other stuff. You can not be compelled to revel self-incriminating information in the USA. Your passcode reveals this information. Your fingerprints are not stored in your brain and can be gathered by non extraordinary means.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work in Australia...(yet), but i don't really care.

 

[Orlandoech]

Really? So the next time hundreds of people get blown the **** up, and you find out this could've been prevented will you be saying the same thing?

I don't understand this mind set. I never will. The FBI doesn't give a **** about you and me. Are you planning to kill someone? They're looking for the people who will kill us and our families.

This is a problem that WILL eventually cause death and destruction, but thats fine right?

You dont give up freedoms for security, EVER. PERIOD. Doesnt matter what they "could have prevented".

 

[lkrupp]

Looks like they're going to have to do some good old-fashioned police work instead.

That’s a ridiculous thing to say. It’s the 21st century and “good old-fashioned police work” simply doesn’t get the job done anymore. Science has seen to that. We now know, for example, that eye witness testimony is the most unreliable evidence around. Years ago my wife had her purse snatched. There were three eyewitnesses including my wife and all three picked out different suspects from the photo lineup. No arrest was ever made. Criminals don’t keep handwritten diaries or ledger books these days. They don’t talk on the landline telephone. They use Quickbooks and encrypted email and texting.

 

[Orlandoech]

There are more guns in the USA than iPhones. There are over 10,000 people murdered by guns every year (and what's worse, 20,000 suicides using guns). Fear of terrorism is totally irrational.

Where do you get your numbers? I do agree with the fear of terrorism is totally irrational though, especially after 9/11. PATRIOT act is an excuse to infringe upon rights of American, in the name of "terrorism".

 

[tridley68]

Thank you Apple for keeping our private info private big brother does not need its nose in everything we do.

 

[citysnaps]

The government does not have ANY business in the phones. I stand by my original statement. Under NO circumstance on this planet does the federal government ever need in our phones. PERIOD!

Really? No business?

If you have committed a crime, say murder or trafficked in child pornography, and there's evidence within your phone that supports the fact that you have committed such a crime, and, law enforcement has probable cause you have committed such a crime, and, has a judge signed a search warrant to access your phone for evidence that supports those crimes, then a prosecutor has no business looking retrieving such evidence within your phone in order to take you to court for a trial?

What if that evidence was in your home? Or car? Or safe deposit box? That evidence should be off limits as well? Fortunately, that is not so.

 

[BornAgainMac]

All this will be interesting once Face ID becomes the standard. Could I just refuse to open my eyes?

Check out the new iPhone X2? It is hideous...

You will open your eyes.

 

[Orlandoech]

Really? No business?

If you have committed a crime, say murder or trafficked in child pornography, and there's evidence within your phone that supports the fact that you have committed such a crime, and, law enforcement has probable cause you have committed such a crime, and, has a judge signed a search warrant to access your phone for evidence that supports those crimes, then a prosecutor has no business looking retrieving such evidence within your phone in order to take you to court for a trial?

What if that evidence was in your home? Or car? Or safe deposit box? That evidence should be off limits as well? Fortunately, that is not so.

I understand what you are saying here and it is logical. I think most people, when they say "ever" mean unless you've been arrested for a crime. Otherwise... to spy in hopes you have committed a crime, still shouldn't be legal.

 

[tw1ll]

Really? No business?

If you have committed a crime, say murder or trafficked in child pornography, and there's evidence within your phone that supports the fact that you have committed such a crime, and, law enforcement has probable cause you have committed such a crime, and, has a judge signed a search warrant to access your phone for evidence that supports those crimes, then a prosecutor has no business looking retrieving such evidence within your phone in order to take you to court for a trial?

What if that evidence was in your home? Or car? Or safe deposit box? That evidence should be off limits as well? Fortunately, that is not so.

And where does it end? The criminal has knowledge of the crime in his head. Should torture be permitted? Many jurisdictions allow that the individual has the right not to incriminate themselves......long may that continue. Freedom has a price, live with that.

 

[UL2RA]

To me the only issue is that any back door or weakening of security would be in the hands of criminals within a very short time of it being made available to any government agency and that is something to be genuinely worried about.

That is 100% the problem. The government has shown utterly gross incompetence when it comes to keeping hacking tools safe. Their tools have repeatedly been leaked and used against many people by hackers.

 

[kemal]

I'm totally OK with the Feds figuring out a way to crack an iPhone as long as they have a warrant first. And then they can only use specific information found that is outlined in the warrant.

The Feds should never be able to compel a company to create a tool to reveal information a user encrypts. AKA brute force tools.

 

[citysnaps]

I understand what you are saying here and it is logical. I think most people, when they say "ever" mean unless you've been arrested for a crime. Otherwise... to spy in hopes you have committed a crime, still shouldn't be legal.

I believe the person I responded to meant ever. How would the government have your phone (to subsequently access) unless it was seized during an arrest?

 

[78Bandit]

Really? No business?

If you have committed a crime, say murder or trafficked in child pornography, and there's evidence within your phone that supports the fact that you have committed such a crime, and, law enforcement has probable cause you have committed such a crime, and, has a judge signed a search warrant to access your phone for evidence that supports those crimes, then a prosecutor has no business looking retrieving such evidence within your phone in order to take you to court for a trial?

What if that evidence was in your home? Or car? Or safe deposit box? That evidence should be off limits as well? Fortunately, that is not so.

But what if the evidence in my safe deposit box was encrypted? What if I used fake names and addresses to document my illegal activity and only I knew what they really represented? What if I used a one-time cipher or an Enigma machine to scramble the words around? Should I be required to keep a key available so law enforcement can figure out what I really meant? That is exactly what the FBI wants.

With a warrant they have the right to access the raw data. What they don't have a right to do is compel you to make that data understandable to them.

 

[techwhiz]

I understand people want to keep secret how much porn they have on their phone, but this is a big issue.

Why?
Sorry but, I'm not willing to give up security.
Technology has evolved. Sorry, but that's they way it is.
Also, how do you prevent someone from using file level encryption on a device that is just as secure?
You can't.
[doublepost=1508795245][/doublepost]

This is why I'll only buy Apple devices. Literally, the only company I trust with my data right now is Apple.

Android supports device level encryption.
To the level that without a password the device will fail too boot.

Same issue for the feds. Can't get the data.
[doublepost=1508795314][/doublepost]

All this will be interesting once Face ID becomes the standard. Could I just refuse to open my eyes?

Still need a password on boot or after a certain period of time.
No different than with a fingerprint.

 

[Glideslope]

Where do you get your numbers? I do agree with the fear of terrorism is totally irrational though, especially after 9/11. PATRIOT act is an excuse to infringe upon rights of American, in the name of "terrorism".

In fairness. The Patriot Act is no longer the "We can do anything" document it once was. Many substantial changes were made after Mr. Snowden.

 

[Tech198]

Why?
Sorry but, I'm not willing to give up security.
Technology has evolved. Sorry, but that's they way it is.
Also, how do you prevent someone from using file level encryption on a device that is just as secure?
You can't.

Make it law. That's the only way, and the use of advanced tech .

 

[techwhiz]

You dont give up freedoms for security, EVER. PERIOD. Doesnt matter what they "could have prevented".

Exactly.

 

[69Mustang]

Where do you get your numbers? I do agree with the fear of terrorism is totally irrational though, especially after 9/11. PATRIOT act is an excuse to infringe upon rights of American, in the name of "terrorism".

The CDC's National Vital Statistics Report. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

 

[yaxomoxay]

Make it law. That's the only way, but no one will go that far because its too complexin every single country

Where does the Constitution give powers to the government to force a private company to reduce security features on a product?

 

[techwhiz]

Make it law. That's the only way, but no one will go that far because its too complexin every single country

So make it law that you can't use file level encryption?
Okay. Now I break that law and you still don't get the data. If I'm a criminal it won't matter.

I don't trust the FBI or any government agency with an acronym as a name.
Throughout the history if the US, organizations like the FBI and CIA have been involved in covert acts against the citizens.
See FBI and COINTELPRO and the CIA with MKUltra.
Nope, I don't trust them and never will.

 

[yaxomoxay]

The CDC's National Vital Statistics Report. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

For gun related homicides use FBI’s UCR.
CDC doesn’t take into account justifiability.

 

[citysnaps]

But what if the evidence in my safe deposit box was encrypted? What if I used fake names and addresses to document my illegal activity and only I knew what they really represented? What if I used a one-time cipher or an Enigma machine to scramble the words around? Should I be required to keep a key available so law enforcement can figure out what I really meant? That is exactly what the FBI wants.

With a warrant they have the right to access the raw data. What they don't have a right to do is compel you to make that data understandable to them.

"Should I be required to keep a key available so law enforcement can figure out what I really meant? "

Of course not.

And that's not what I was taking issue with. I was merely responding to the person who said "The government does not have ANY business in the phones."

If that were the case, then you could say the government has no business in the file cabinet in your house, or what's in the glove box in your car, should you be arrested and there's probable cause and a search warrant to search your property for evidence of the crime you are being accused of.

 

[furi0usbee]

All this will be interesting once Face ID becomes the standard. Could I just refuse to open my eyes?

This is a reason why it's important to have a good password/passlock on your phone. In a court of law, you can be compelled to provided your fingerprint to unlock your device. However, you cannot be compelled to divulge your secret password. As long as you power off your phone before/during any interaction with law enforcement, be it innocent or otherwise, you will be afforded more protection than if your device is powered on and is ready to unlock with a fingerprint.

 

[Brandhouse]

The United States Federal Bureau of Investigation was unable to retrieve data from 6,900 mobile devices that it attempted to access over the course of the last 11 months, reports the Associated Press.

Good, nor should they.