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Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
FINALLY!
This is the biggest news from this years WWDC :).
We waited so long for this....
I hope they won't do it in an "Apple Way" and block it for streaming.
  • Third-party VPN support, which enables developers to create VPN apps for Apple TV. This can benefit enterprise and education users wanting to access content on their private networks, allowing Apple TV to be a great office and conference room solution in even more places.
 
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BootLoxes

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2019
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895
My fiance is going to love this. Will make it much easier to access Vietnamese content
 

naylor2006

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2023
11
4
That will be awesome, hope Express VPN get around to developing their app for tvOS, they have it on pretty much every other platform going, even Raspbian.
 
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Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
Neah, I don't think they will block it for streaming a different region. I don't see how this would be possible.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
Apple has to strike a delicate balance between making users happy and keeping content producers happy. I really doubt this is going to allow you to watch stuff like Netflix in another region.
Neah, I don't think they will block it for streaming a different region. I don't see how this would be possible.
 

Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
1,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
To access content on a private network, wouldn't a user log into the private network using a certificate issued by the private network's VPN server? This would be similar to running OpenVPN server on a router to allow accessing resources behind the router's firewall?

VPN providers like Nord allow a user to access geo-locked public networks like Netflix, Max, etc. and the VPN certificate is used to authenticate users on the Nord server.
 

naylor2006

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2023
11
4
To access content on a private network, wouldn't a user log into the private network using a certificate issued by the private network's VPN server? This would be similar to running OpenVPN server on a router to allow accessing resources behind the router's firewall?

VPN providers like Nord allow a user to access geo-locked public networks like Netflix, Max, etc. and the VPN certificate is used to authenticate users on the Nord server.
The thing im most hopeful for is that OpenVPN stick their VPN connect app on tvOS, means I can take my ATV away with me and connect back to my shares at home rather than taking my MacBook.
 
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Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
The thing im most hopeful for is that OpenVPN stick their VPN connect app on tvOS, means I can take my ATV away with me and connect back to my shares at home rather than taking my MacBook.
Since you are connecting to your home network, you wouldn't be using a commercial VPN liked Nord, you'd be using a VPN protocol with a certificate you generated, correct?

Wouldn't wireguard be faster than openvpn for download and upload speed?
 

naylor2006

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2023
11
4
Since you are connecting to your home network, you wouldn't be using a commercial VPN liked Nord, you'd be using a VPN protocol with a certificate you generated, correct?

Wouldn't wireguard be faster than openvpn for download and upload speed?
Yeah OpenVPN uses self generated certificates and the speed is only limited by my home internet connection and where ever I happen to be, it doesnt use a cloud server, the server is at my house, its just a Raspberry Pi 4, used a GitHub script to help me build the server, neat little thing to be honest. Limitation of bandwidth a little bit because the CPU lacks the grunt but once the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out it's going to be unleashed a bit further. None the less at the moment its fast enough to stream 4K from my home server to wherever I am remotely provided my remote internet is up to it, IE your hotel or whatever. So it would be cool to take away a tiny ATV box with me rather than my MacBook Pro through the airport.
 
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Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Yeah OpenVPN uses self generated certificates and the speed is only limited by my home internet connection and where ever I happen to be, it doesnt use a cloud server, the server is at my house, its just a Raspberry Pi 4, used a GitHub script to help me build the server, neat little thing to be honest. Limitation of bandwidth a little bit because the CPU lacks the grunt but once the Raspberry Pi 5 comes out it's going to be unleashed a bit further. None the less at the moment its fast enough to stream 4K from my home server to wherever I am remotely provided my remote internet is up to it, IE your hotel or whatever. So it would be cool to take away a tiny ATV box with me rather than my MacBook Pro through the airport.
What you described appears to match exactly what Apple intended in its public statement with respect to VPN support on tvOS.

I did not interpret Apple's VPN statement to mean they will allow consumer VPN providers such as Nord to work on the Apple TV.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
I think what you understood is more related to this:

The VPN support I hope is for other VPN providers to provide their apps for TVOS. Why would this be a problem? You can already stream from different regions from iOS and IpadOS using VPN apps.
 

Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
1,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I think what you understood is more related to this:

The VPN support I hope is for other VPN providers to provide their apps for TVOS. Why would this be a problem? You can already stream from different regions from iOS and IpadOS using VPN apps.
My comments have to do with accessing private networks, such as home or corporate, with VPN protocol apps such as wireguard, OpenVPN, and TLS with your own certificate.

Using Nord means you are accessing Nord servers over a VPN with a Nord certificate. You could not access a private network using a Nord certificate.

I highly doubt tvOS will allow the use of VPNs to unlock geo-restricted content.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
Yes, I understood but for this you would need OpenVPN Connect or Wireguard client. Not sure if those will come to tvOS.

For the comercial VPNs like Nord, Express etc. I have hopes that this is what Apple intends with VPN support and I don't see any reason why not.
Accessing geo-restricted contend is already possible on iOS and IpadOS.
We shall find out in the next 2-3 months :).
 

naylor2006

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2023
11
4
My comments have to do with accessing private networks, such as home or corporate, with VPN protocol apps such as wireguard, OpenVPN, and TLS with your own certificate.

Using Nord means you are accessing Nord servers over a VPN with a Nord certificate. You could not access a private network using a Nord certificate.

I highly doubt tvOS will allow the use of VPNs to unlock geo-restricted content.
Millage seems to vary anyway, some apps detect it, I can put myself in the US with ExpressVPN however Netflix still shows me UK content on iOS. The same doesnt apply for TSN, I can watch the NHL stuff on there whilst ensuring I locate myself in Canada. So even if you can get your favourite VPN app installed doesn't mean GEO restricted content will work.
 
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Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
ExpressVPN is not that great of a VPN
For streaming I would souggest either NordVPN or Hide.me VPN (this one is supposed to be the best for streaming).
For privacy (I still don't consider VPNs good for privacy) go with Mullvad, ProtonVPN or OVPN
 

Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
1,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Yes, I understood but for this you would need OpenVPN Connect or Wireguard client. Not sure if those will come to tvOS.

For the comercial VPNs like Nord, Express etc. I have hopes that this is what Apple intends with VPN support and I don't see any reason why not.
Accessing geo-restricted contend is already possible on iOS and IpadOS.
We shall find out in the next 2-3 months :).
An OpenVPN or Wireguard client with your own certificate is the only way to access a private network and would not allow access to geo-locked content. Apple only mentioned access to a private via tvOS. I did not see any reference to non-private networks.

Allowing the use of a VPN on an iPad and iPhone would be for privacy over public networks such as WiFi at Starbucks which would not normally be needed to an AppleTV.
 
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Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
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Toronto, Ontario, Canada
A better solution for viewing geo-locked content on an AppleTV is a DNS service such as Control D, Getflix, DNS4Me, and smartDNSproxy. It doesn't slow the internet connection and works more reliably.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
It does slow the internet connection.
I used most of them and the stream quality/buffering is bad.
The only one which worked quite ok was dns4me. At least in my case.
 

Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
1,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
It does slow the internet connection.
I used most of them and the stream quality/buffering is bad.
The only one which worked quite ok was dns4me. At least in my case.
The buffering is due to the speed of the DNS server and it's location.

Download speed is slowed because of the need to encrypt and decrypt all of the internet data. OpenVPN is a single-threaded app so the only way to speed up the upload/download speed is with a fast CPU that supports hardware encryption and decryption.

I use Getflix, ControlD, and smartstreaming.tv and they work fine for me. I check the streaming speed by enabling the HUD in the ATV's developer settings.

I have FTTH so not sure if that makes a difference.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
Well, I also have a FTTH 10gb dedicated line with professional grade Cisco/Mikrotik equipment. Getting full 10gbps almost everywhere.
Using those DNS services affects my latency and this is when the buffering happens. DL/UL speed itself is not affected.
The traffic is routed badly...
Anyway... I set up my own VPN Gateway using a PI and a Brume 2 from Glinet :). I can use any VPN provider now.
Still, would love to see a VPN app from Nord or ProtonVPN directly on the Apple TV
 
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Audit13

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2017
6,823
1,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Well, I also have a FTTH 10gb dedicated line with professional grade Cisco/Mikrotik equipment. Getting full 10gbps almost everywhere.
Using those DNS services affects my latency and this is when the buffering happens. DL/UL speed itself is not affected.
The traffic is routed badly...
Anyway... I set up my own VPN Gateway using a PI and a Brume 2 from Glinet :). I can use any VPN provider now.
Still, would love to see a VPN app from Nord or ProtonVPN directly on the Apple TV
You've got a great setup. I guess we'll have to wait to see what actually happens.
 
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jbwelsch

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2021
24
36
This is HUGE. I used an AppleTV in my classroom, but the school firewall blocked everything content-wise. I was another school year from paying for an IP/DNS tunnel.
 

Sparxxx

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 29, 2009
340
152
Might be again some Apple bulls**t


“We are concerned that there may be some limitations for consumer VPN products and the update will only benefit B2B VPN solutions,” NordVPN PR Manager Egidijus Jurgelionis wrote in an email to The Verge, “If not, our users will be able to use NordVPN on their Apple TVs sometime in the nearest future.”
 
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